North Korea prison camps 'like the Holocaust', survivors who escaped say

reply to post by Propulsion


Yeah.. I will say, if it's all true. I would support that war. I would actually fight to make sure a person wasn't born into hard labor that lasted until they died.

I wouldn't fight in either of the wars of the last decade and avoided military completely, but I would have rather seen North Korea's regime ended. They have given nothing to the world. Their only purpose is as a buffer between the west and China and to supply workers for communist countries. (I've heard the workers often don't even know they are no longer in Korea they are kept so ignorant and isolated).


There are probably many other countries with leaders like this though. This is just the one we are having our attention drawn to.

These concentration camps in north korea dont exist,a lot of horror stories are created about the DPRK and it works beautifully i must say,people practically beg for an invasion!

Originally posted by LarryOG
Playing Devils Advocate, How are we sure that these allegations are in fact true? Im just saying none of us have ever been to North Korea. It could be all propaganda, you know they are part of the Axis of Evil who do not have a centralized "Rothchild" Bank. Everything we hear about North Korea comes from our government or our government sponsored media.

While I do believe that there are prison camps in NK one thing in Mr. Shin's story (presented in the link by the OP) didn't sound quite right to me. Mr. Shin had stated that he an a fellow inmate had tried to run through/climb over an electrified fence, and that his friend had been electrocuted and he had to climb over the body. I may be wrong (and usually I am wrong) but I have always been taught that electricity will travel through a conductive source like humans, and electrified fences, which I can only assume would be on the industrial/prison type scale would have fried Mr. Shin the moment he tried climbing over his friend. Most fences of that sort are at least 8-10 feet tall topped with either razor or barbed wire, I would hazard a guess that his friend was not 8 feet tall. That part of his story just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by amurphy245
These concentration camps in north korea dont exist,a lot of horror stories are created about the DPRK and it works beautifully i must say,people practically beg for an invasion!

They are not concentration but (forced) labor camps and they do exist. Some are just more horrific than others.You can find them in other countries too, like Russia and Africa. A similar place would be Iphone factory in China except they do get paid a little and get bread and stuff instead of cabbage.

reply to post by kdyam


It is true that a human body is conductive,but its conductivity is not as rigid a concept as that of copper. You see, where other conductors, like metals for instance, are concerned, they have high melting points, and as long as they are intact, will continue to conduct. But, a human being is made of weaker stuff. The synapses, the nervous connections that allow electricity to flow through our bodies under normal circumstances, will quickly burn out after contact with high voltages. When that process is complete we become considerably less likely to be conductive, as the pathways down which the electricity used to flow, have been broken and burned out.

All it would have taken, is time for the body to become inert electrically, and then it would have been safe to climb over him. Also, no mention is made of what the exact circumstances were at the time. They may have had a ladder, or some other aid to climbing.

Originally posted by TheComte

If that's the case then I stand corrected.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying prison camps with harsh conditions don't exist in North Korea. It's just that it seemed odd to have someone who is supposedly isolated (or so we are told by our governments) to make reference to world events that would have happened before their time.

If the Holocaust is taught there as you say, then that explains it.

You know how the Soviet Union, P. Republic of China and some small socialist states were part of the Allies,,that's all it took for them to gloat about it for the next 15 years (i'm not from N.Korea but i guess they never stopped doing this). And i'm not talking about a history lesson or two i'm talking about daily morning praise, evening radio shows, weekly school plays, monthly national holiday/remembrance, periodical museum visits, visits to the graves of the fallen etc, etc.


Compare it to your Thanksgiving day but once a month, would you complain


let me edit the time line, just for some laughs.. it was 1986 when i had to start my first year in school, but not before my class took a national oath to never stop fighting any fascist who comes along, so 15 years is peanuts, aah the good old days : )

reply to post by TheComte

Breaking:- There is more than one regime at this game.
I know of a country that has over a thousand nukes and a great number of satellites orbiting this planet.
They also have thousands of people starving and living in make shift shelters. The population is being systematically poisoned , through their food and water and vaccinations. Their health care only for the very rich.
This nation ranks 50th in life expectancy. There are mass murders sanctioned by the Government and over 4,700 innocent people murdered by this government last year. Child abuse both sexual and physical is on the increase. Many thousands have been doped with anti-depressants and they have the largest suicide rate for their military in the world.

How about we get in there and stop these atrocities ?

Guess what country I'm talking about .
Clue ..... Its suppose to be the land of the Free!!!!!

Originally posted by amurphy245
These concentration camps in north korea dont exist,a lot of horror stories are created about the DPRK and it works beautifully i must say,people practically beg for an invasion!

Can you provide some evidence they do not exsist.? I provided some that they do.

Will wait patiently for your reply. Cheers

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by jude11


While I do see your point, what about so many more in the US Private Prison For Profit scam?

While the conditions are much worse in NK, the profiteers in the Private Prison System make money as do the States. We have also had at least one case that I know of whereas the judges made money off of putting kids in jail on minor charges so the prison system could profit.

Different and the same. It all sucks.

Peace

To even compare the two is a joke. Some people own prisons that is true but to say it is even close as the same as being born into slavery or a death camp just baffles me.

My post was in answer to this:

How in a modern world can some 200,000 people be held as slaves for the pleasure of the state?

In a modern World the US has much more than 200,000 prisoners locked up for the State's pleasure. That pleasure being money for the prison owners AND the State of course.

Not so modern in either case.

No one said anything about the conditions or reasons.

Peace

Originally posted by TheComte
Considering North Korea has been cut off from the outside world for the past 50 years or so, I'm wondering how much someone from one of their prison camps even knows about the Holocaust?

I find it hard to believe that anyone held in a prison camp in isolation, in an long-isolated country, would immediately think of the Holocaust to which to compare their ordeal.

Sounds like a planted story to drum up some anti-North Korea sentiment.

Shin Dong-Hyuk is a famous NK camp survivor. He has permanent physical deformations which only come from extreme physical labor at a young age, before the growth plates have finished setting in. He has horrible scars all over his body from where he was tortured, again as a young child. Genital torture, etc.

He probably knows about the Nazi Holocaust because he's been living in safety, in the real world, for several years now. If you think a NK camp survivor wouldn't know about the holocaust, you're simply being obtuse. It is famous the world over. There is no dispute whatsoever that he is legitimate.

Originally posted by magma

Originally posted by amurphy245
These concentration camps in north korea dont exist,a lot of horror stories are created about the DPRK and it works beautifully i must say,people practically beg for an invasion!

Can you provide some evidence they do not exsist.? I provided some that they do.

Will wait patiently for your reply. Cheers

I lived for 8 years just South of the DMZ (Demilitarized Zone) and can say that although I have never seen camps first hand, I have talked to many South Koreans and ex-North Koreans over many a BBQ and even more beers and Soju.

I have no doubt they exist.

With all the footage and testimony available, anyone trying to deny their existence are either propagandists, North Korean plants, Trolls or just plain idiots.

C'mon people. You are not helping anyone when you deny their very existence.

Peace

reply to post by magma

The UN will organize a military campaign if these human rights issues are confirmed. The RToP (Responsibility To Protect) initiative was passed in 2005. This is what allowed for the war in Libya that cut off Qaddafi and his regime from power. Basically, when a country's leaders fail to meet human rights needs, it gives authority to the UN to organize a military campaign to remove the regime from power.

Reference to RToP:
en.wikipedia.org - Responsibility to protect...

It's still uncertain whether this will be used fully in Syria.

With North Korea, the reality of nuclear weapons brings this danger level up. This means that if a war was issued to remove the regime that a powerful and smart use of force would be required.

Part of me is burdened. North Korea is very low on resources. Because its leaders have routinely spent on military and on padding their own pockets, their people have gone without. The sanctions have worsened the situation because the regime continues to pool funds into the military and leadership. They refuse to value their people above themselves. Thus, we predictable come to a intersection wherein either the leaderships changes course or they're forcefully removed by international interests in a potentially dangerous gamble.

Traditionally, war is fought when someone is attacked militarily. But things have changed. Now when a leadership harms its own people this is considered a gateway to war. Keep in mind that Hitler wasn't attacked because if his policies towards his own people, but because of his military ambitions outside his own country. Even Stalin is known to have killed many of his own citizens and to have turned away from them when they needed help, resulting in many millions of deaths preceding and during world war 2. Yet this did not cause us to attack the Soviet Union.

See here:
gendercide.org - Case Study: Stalin's Purges...

.........
By 1928, Stalin was entrenched as supreme Soviet leader, and he wasted little time in launching a series of national campaigns (the so-called Five-Year Plans) aimed at "collectivizing" the peasantry and turning the USSR into a powerful industrial state. Both campaigns featured murder on a massive scale. Collectivization especially targeted Ukraine, "the breadbasket of the Soviet Union," which clung stubbornly to its own national identity and preference for village-level communal landholdings. In 1932-33, Stalin engineered a famine (by massively raising the grain quota that the peasantry had to turn over to the state); this killed between six and seven million people and broke the back of Ukrainian resistance. The Ukrainian famine has only recently been recognized as one of the most destructive genocides of the twentieth century (see Robert Conquest, The Harvest of Sorrow, and the Web resources compiled by The Ukrainian Weekly). The Five-Year Plans for industry, too, were implemented in an extraordinarily brutal fashion, leading to the deaths of millions of convict labourers, overwhelmingly men. These atrocities are described in the corvée (forced) labour case study. The millions of deaths in Stalin's "Gulag Archipelago" (the network of labour camps [gulags] scattered across the length and breath of Russia) are dealt with in the incarceration/death penalty case study.
...........

Originally posted by TheComte

Sounds like a planted story to drum up some anti-North Korea sentiment.

I don't doubt the existence of slave labor camps, but like you, I'm not going to gobble up a story put out by those with an agenda like they did with Iraq and the baby incubator deaths.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Also, we have slave labor camps in the US as well, complete with grisly killings between guards and inmates, and inmates and inmates. They just don't call them slave labor camps.

I'd also like to add that it would be useful if these camps were located on google earth. You can load it up yourself and see North Korea. If we knew where it was happening, it'd help inform.

Knowing that these places are real and not just stories on a news site helps.

Ahh, I see that they show a google maps image that shows the location of them.

Here:
gizmodo.com -
North Korean Death Camps Shown in Unprecedented Detail by Google Earth...

reply to post by jonnywhite


I am not so sure. For decades NK has been somewhat ignored. What's the point of using resources to go in and stop them in their tracks and to free the people? Would need to be a some sort of threat greater than they are at this time. If they can let syria degenerate to this point then pretty sure they will leave NK alone for a while.

reply to post by magma


We have no idea what it is like in North Korea and articles like this one confirm this fact. Some spinster clearly made everything in this article up. The Holocaust indeed! Laughable.

I'm sure there are plenty of "criminals" who harmed nobody, who rot away in the US prison industrial complex that could provide similar testimony to a newspaper in Pyongyang.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


Any other writer who writes a story based on real life events you would not question.

But today it is cool and hip to deny these shocking things occur.

Welcome to today in your world.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Any other writer who writes a story based on real life events you would not question.

But today it is cool and hip to deny these shocking things occur.

Welcome to today in your world.

edit on 25-2-2013 by magma because: (no reason given)

That's bull#. How do you know what I would and would not question?

This, though? Our media has been under orders to propagandize us regarding the DPRK for 60+ years with a barrage of ugly assertions. It is impossible for a thinking person to trust the media when it comes to stories about the enemies of our elite, like Iran, N. Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

What's not so cool and hip any more is the CIA-penetrated controlled Mockingbird media.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


The Media are compulsive bs artists and everything they spit out to the masses should be taken as propaganda until undenial proof can be obtained.. Fair enough we have a confession from a so-called prisoner but whats to say he hasn't been payed a couple of Million to lie or something? It has happened before.

reply to post by DarknStormy


This is my point exactly. Because of the US-imposed travel ban to North Korea it is not possible for your average US citizen to investigate their situation for himself.

Another lie that the media pushes is in regards to the food situation in North Korea. We are told that they are starving there, and shown some video clips of filthy children in the street, but those same kinds of videos could be shot in America. If you look at North Korea's cultivated land area and estimate crop yields by looking at those of nearby nations, you'll see that they easily have a food surplus. The food aid they do receive is likely sold on the open market, or traded with partners like China for currency and weapons.

Another common story is that, because the place is dark at night, we are told that there is no electricity. While I don't doubt that it's in short supply, because of trade embargoes, the real truth is probably somewhat akin to wartime Britain, where lights were turned off at night to thwart enemy surveillance, to conserve a valuable resource, and as a national sacrifice which likely ultimately brings together the people.

It's too much to expect that people look at their fairy stories called News and History with a critical eye, though. After all, there's a game on tonight, and after that American Idol.