Obama, Cheney, Bush and Powell in New Pro Gay Marriage Ad

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
I told you who those so-called "supporters" are and I'm not impressed.

Your opinion of the supporters is irrelevant. It doesn't matter WHO you think they are or whether or not you're impressed. They are American citizens.

Regardless, the current law is very clear. Gay marriage is not legal.

It is legal in nearly 1/5 of the states. And climbing. I'm not arguing the facts of current law. But hold on tight to it, because Freedom is on the March! Equality WILL be protected, no matter how much you want to stop it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Your opinion of the supporters is irrelevant. It doesn't matter WHO you think they are or whether or not you're impressed. They are American citizens.

As am I….and my vote cancels out one of theirs, so it does matter what I think!

It is legal in nearly 1/5 of the states. And climbing. I'm not arguing the facts of current law. But hold on tight to it, because Freedom is on the March! Equality WILL be protected, no matter how much you want to stop it.

One persons ‘equality’ is another person’s ‘disgusting perversion’. To each his/her own!

I don’t care either way so you’re not hurting my feelings. I’ve already come to terms with the fact that this nation is breeding more and more people who have no morals. You asked my opinion and I gave it to you. My only reason for entering your thread was to point out the obvious; that it’s the attack on the sanctity of marriage that’s pissing people off, not the actual act of gay marriage itself.

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
My only reason for entering your thread was to point out the obvious; that it’s the attack on the sanctity of marriage that’s pissing people off, not the actual act of gay marriage itself.

This is not my thread. Just FYI. And I'm not trying to hurt your feelings.

And if you (or anyone I've EVER asked) could explain exactly how marriage equality is an "attack on the sanctity of marriage", I might see your position. But I cannot see HOW it would affect marriage or the "sanctity" of anyone's marriage AT ALL. In fact, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. It seems to be a "catch-all" phrase that you use without definition - that people are just supposed to accept.

Keep in mind that 9 states have already made it legal, and the "sanctity of marriage" is still just fine. Isn't it? Or is it only 4/5 sanctified these days?

Besides... Your argument is invalid.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH - On a normal day, I would probably debate what I see as your generally far left opinion about...everything. But today I think I have starred more of your posts than the combined total of every day previous! Not that I am on the "right" or "conservative" side - as I have given up on the whole right/left paradigm as they are so obviously on the same side. Anyway, I couldn't argue this at all any better than you have been.

For myself, I am baffled by the medieval attitudes of people on this issue. Why in the hell do you give a crap what other people do with each other as long as they don't hurt anyone else? How do two men getting married (or two women for that matter) affect you or your beliefs in any way whatsoever? I am a Christian myself (although most "religions" would likely call me heretical) and I have friends and family who are gay. It's way past time that they have the same rights as everyone else. This whole denial of gay rights is the same kind of ignorant hatred as trying to make Rosa Parks give up her seat for a white person. Please people - especially you so-called Christians, give up your prejudices and just support the things that make people happy!

Re-read your New Testaments. Who did Jesus Himself speak against? The so called "sinners"? No, He spoke out against the hypocritical, judgemental, self-righteous church going people - especially the religious leaders of the day! He hung out with "sinners". Jesus taught us to love everyone - even those who you would call an enemy. Love and serve all - that is true Christianity! Not these rules and contradictory teachings of the Catholic church (and most "Christian" churches in general). They invented a lot of things (including hell) in order to control, punish, and get their hands on your money. It's time to take back faith from the religions of control and hatred. Jesus said to deny yourself, take up your cross daily, and follow Him. This essentially is a call to serve those around you with unconditional love.

Sometimes my belief in humanity begins to renew itself and then a thread like this shows up.
We need to love and respect one another. If we could all overcome ourselves and be more concerned with the rights, comfort and safety of others, we will truly evolve as a species.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by hadriana
The law should not favor any one religion.

In my utopia the law would be completely secular ... respecting people's rights to believe and worship as they wish but not imposing any religious beliefs on anyone. But sadly .. that's probably not something this planet will ever really see ...

Well if you ever get that utopia started - I'll gladly move myself and my family there. We would also have to eliminate the billions of pages of unnecessary laws regulating every move we make. Make it a society of freedom where it's only illegal to interfere with another's freedoms.

reply to post by tallcool1


Thank you! That was nice to read.

Marriage Equality is a Conservative Cause

There is nothing conservative about denying other Americans the ability to forge that same relationship with the person they love.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Besides... Your argument is invalid.

edit on 2/25/2013 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Awesome! How can it be any more succint than that!

And the only thing that legalizing gay marriage would violate would be people's prejudicial hatred - and really, why would that be a bad thing?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

This is not my thread. Just FYI. And I'm not trying to hurt your feelings.

Whoops! Sorry, FlyersFan!

And if you (or anyone I've EVER asked) could explain exactly how marriage equality is an "attack on the sanctity of marriage", I might see your position. But I cannot see HOW it would affect marriage or the "sanctity" of anyone's marriage AT ALL. In fact, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. It seems to be a "catch-all" phrase that you use without definition - that people are just supposed to accept.

Allow me to explain.

Sanctity of Marriage is akin to "holy matrimony." Holiness is a religious concept that does not have any clear meaning in civil law but it has historically defined marriage in the US. Gay marriage is unholy; therefore it violates the sanctity of marriage. This means NOTHING to atheists like you or to gays, which is why I said this is a sign of the moral decay of our country. You’d like everyone to be on board with you high jacking Holy Matrimony but that’s not going to happen.

Call it something else and collect your benefits...nobody cares.

Keep in mind that 9 states have already made it legal, and the "sanctity of marriage" is still just fine. Isn't it? Or is it only 4/5 sanctified these days?

Besides... Your argument is invalid.

My argument isn’t invalid…you just don’t like it. States are free to do what they want. The federal government should have no say in marital or religious issues to begin with. This doesn’t mean that those states that allow gay marriage aren’t violating the sanctity of marriage, it’s just more palatable if a state does it because I have the option of moving from a state if I really disagree that much. I shouldn’t have to renounce my US citizenship in disagreement.

The federal government’s role is NOT to pick winners and losers.

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
Holiness is a religious concept that does not have any clear meaning in civil law

Thank you. It has no meaning and no place in civil law. And that's what we're talking about. Civil law. That's what this thread is about. Rights and the equal protection of LAW for everyone. I'm sorry you don't support that.

You’d like everyone to be on board with you high jacking Holy Matrimony but that’s not going to happen.

Ewww! No. I don't want anything to do with "Holy Matrimony". That's a religious concept and also has no place in civil law.

I'm talking about the legal state of "marriage". The contract. The LAW. Not religion, not holiness. The law.

Call it something else and collect your benefits...nobody cares.

Call it marriage and keep your "holy matrimony". Nobody cares.

The federal government should have no say in marital or religious issues to begin with.

Regardless your personal opinion on it, the federal government offers over 1000 benefits to legally married couples.

I have the option of moving from a state if I really disagree that much. I shouldn’t have to renounce my US citizenship in disagreement.

Let's see what happens next month in the Supreme Court. You may just have to move to one of the theocracies I mentioned before so you can have religious laws as the law of the land.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Thank you. It has no meaning and no place in civil law. And that's what we're talking about. Civil law. That's what this thread is about. Rights and the equal protection of LAW for everyone. I'm sorry you don't support that. ]

Actually, the thread is about a pro-gay marriage advertisement. This isn’t a legal debate.

I told you quite clearly what I do and do not support.

Ewww! No. I don't want anything to do with "Holy Matrimony". That's a religious concept and also has no place in civil law.

I'm talking about the legal state of "marriage". The contract. The LAW. Not religion, not holiness. The law.

Well that’s what the sanctity of marriage is…now you see how gay marriage violates it.

Call it marriage and keep your "holy matrimony". Nobody cares.

Holy matrimony was here first…find your own word for gay unions because it certainly isn’t holy matrimony or marriage.

Let's see what happens next month in the Supreme Court. You may just have to move to one of the theocracies I mentioned before so you can have religious laws as the law of the land.

I live in Texas. There is no gay marriage in Texas and I don’t think the fed can force states to accept it. Texas will tell them to shove it much it will do with any gun ban, high capacity magazine ban or gun registration.

Originally posted by seabag

I live in Texas. There is no gay marriage in Texas and I don’t think the fed can force states to accept it. Texas will tell them to shove it much it will do with any gun ban, high capacity magazine ban or gun registration.

Texas was one of those states that banned interracial marriage as well -- until the Supreme Court ruled it discriminatory. Now Texas (along with ALL other states) allows interracial marriage. The same thing will happen with gay marriage. But don't worry: you'll still be free to not marry someone of the same gender if it's not your thing.

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
Actually, the thread is about a pro-gay marriage advertisement.

Yes. And that advertisement is about legal marriage rights. Did you listen to it?

I told you quite clearly what I do an don’t support.

I know. You don't support equal treatment under the law. That is clear and not being argued.

Well that’s what the sanctity of marriage is…now you see how gay marriage violates it.

No, I don't. Anyone who wishes to have "holy matrimony" will still be allowed to when gay people are getting legally married. If the sanctity of marriage is still intact, while 9 states support marriage equality, it simply doesn't make sense that the sanctity of marriage will be "violated" when all 50 states support it.

Holy matrimony was here first…

Nope. Wrong again. Marriage predates religion.

I live in Texas. There is no gay marriage in Texas ...

Not right now, but... Gay Marriage Advocates in Texas Begin the Long Haul to Change State's Laws. And these people aren't just going to "give up" because of resistance. They're Texans.

HB1300: To permit same-gender couples in Texas the freedom to marry.

Background: HB 1300 would repeal the Texas Defense of Marriage Act by removing revisions made to the state's Family Code in 2003 that prohibit the recognition of marriages between two people of the same gender, whether performed in Texas or in other states.

Originally posted by seabag
Whoops! Sorry, FlyersFan!

I'm not uptight about those kinds of things. No problem.

The federal government should have no say in marital or religious issues to begin with.

When the federal government goes along with traditional marriage and doesn't allow 'gay marriage' (marriage equality), it isn't 'establishing a religion'. It's following the traditions that have been set for the country since it's founding. The law says that the government can't 'establish a religion'. So the question is ... by going along with something that is 'tradition' in regards to marriage, is the government 'establishing a religion' and therefore wrong to do so ... the answer is no ... it 'establishes' no religion.

So Seabag .. your side of the discussion gets a point with that.

HOWEVER .... 'traditional marriage' is a religious based tradition .. and traditions aren't immune from change and updating. (unless you are talking about the Catholic church .... ) As far as I know, traditions aren't protected forever by law simply because they are traditions, especially when those traditions discriminate against American citizens.

Some traditions do become law. However, both traditions and laws can be changed when needed just like traditions can be changed. Changed ... or UPDATED ... to reflect a better understanding of a situation or reflect a more educated population .. etc etc ...

IMHO

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Anyone who wishes to have "holy matrimony" will still be allowed to when gay people are getting legally married.

And that is kind of the bottom line, isn't it? Allowing marriage equality in no way effects those who are involved in 'traditional marriage' and it in no way effects their 'holy matrimony' vows.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Texas was one of those states that banned interracial marriage as well -- until the Supreme Court ruled it discriminatory. Now Texas (along with ALL other states) allows interracial marriage. The same thing will happen with gay marriage. But don't worry: you'll still be free to not marry someone of the same gender if it's not your thing.

As long as I’m not forced to marry another man!! [end sarcasm]

You’re probably right about gay marriage eventually becoming law. It might as well – we already have legalized infanticide in the form of abortion.

As I’ve already stated in this thread, I’ve accepted that this country is going downhill.

A step in the right direction for sure. Might have been better if he hadnt used soundclips of those people and instead got them to speak in his ad.

Originally posted by Signals
They don't know what they support, it changes like the direction of the wind...

Why do gay couples need to be legally married? Don't they receive the same legal protections through a legal union or partnership?

IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE IN THIS COUNTRY ?

edit on 21-2-2013 by Signals because: (no reason given)

Why act so irrational towards something that has no impact on your life whatsoever? Why choose to be on the wrong side of this issue?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Texas was one of those states that banned interracial marriage as well -- until the Supreme Court ruled it discriminatory. Now Texas (along with ALL other states) allows interracial marriage. The same thing will happen with gay marriage. But don't worry: you'll still be free to not marry someone of the same gender if it's not your thing.

As long as I’m not forced to marry another man!! [end sarcasm]

You’re probably right about gay marriage eventually becoming law. It might as well – we already have legalized infanticide in the form of abortion.

As I’ve already stated in this thread, I’ve accepted that this country is going downhill.

edit on 25-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

I hear gay marriage and abortion is still illegal in Iraq. Maybe their morals are more in line with yours.

reply to post by technical difficulties

Why choose to be on the wrong side of this issue?

…says the person who believes he’s right!

I could say the same about you. Why are you on the wrong side of this issue? I think my position on this issue is more logical than yours because science backs my position up – After all, can 2 males procreate? How about 2 females?

Dick, Bush, Obama, Colon ALL had there Sayings Taken Out Of Context. To Use The Four In A Video Mash Up Is Misleading. Everyone Can have there Opinion Just Lets Keep Facts The Reality..

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
Gay marriage is unholy;

And atheist marriage is holy????