"beautiful" LCA

Again, quit putting words in my mouth.

I'm talking about the roles of the ac in their respective airforces, not capability.

The Su-37 is not the same of the MFI. Su-37 is the TVC tech demo created by Russia. The MKI is the Su-37 souped up by India with a whole range of Indian, French and Israeli goodies, designed for the Indian operational enviroment. MFI is made by MiG and is a prototype proposal for a 5th gen ac.

PAK-FA is a joint Russian/Indian project for a 5th gen fighter. It was an open secret that the two would work together for years, only now officially confirmed:

India, Russia to build fighter aircraft

NEW DELHI, DHNS:

At the conclusion of parleys on military cooperation for two days, India and Russia have agreed to jointly develop a fifth-generation multi-role, multi-functional fighter aircraft besides adhering to a stricter intellectual property rights (IPR) regime.

�Conceptual presentations have been made on the aircraft. Now both sides will sit and work out the details,� Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters here on Thursday in the presence of his Russian counterpart Sergei Ivanov, who is scheduled to accompany the Russian President Vladimir Putin from Friday.

Though both countries were deliberating on the futuristic fifth generation aircraft for the last couple of years, this is for the first time they have agreed on the concept.

Cool view of LCA cockpit at Areo-India-2003

Damn that has more MFDS than the Su30 MKI, J-10,F-15..etc..why so many MFDs?? Can the pros point out what each one is for??
and whats with the pansie pink buttons..

hi i have a question about kaveri engine. i hard that it failed the test in russia, but what is going on with now. are they redesiging it or what. thanx guys

Taht was a long time ago..I think the LCA has flown ovre a 1000hrs since then...but im not sure if the kaveri was replaced/altered..

Originally posted by groingrinder
Great looking airplane!!

I love the smaller jets like the US Navy's "SKYHAWK".

Gotta love the classic delta wing too. It really does resemble a small Mirage or F-106. India should be able to cram alot of these on a carrier. I would buy one, but it would be better if they could give me one to "beta test".

Ya you gotta 'love' the classic delta wing with all it's inherent flaws... perfect choice for a modern aircraft (that last part is dripping with sarcasm, in case it doesn't come across well). At low sub-sonic speeds (i.e. landing and taking off) delta wings bite the big one, which is why they've fallen out of favour.

Osiris

Really? So the Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, LCA, J-10, Mirage 2000, MiG I-42, etc etc all use a rubbish wing do they? your appraisal of the faults in delta wings is a bit off course, as is your erroneous claim that they have 'fallen out of favour'.The point about a delta wing is that it combines a highly swept leading edge for high speed flight with a completely unswept trailing edge which is beneficial during landing and take off.

Of course it has flaws, but so does any wing, there is no such thing as the perfect aerodynamic form, but the delta offers a good compromise across a wide speed range, as long as you take its drawbacks into account and the designers of the planes I listed above aren't fools and will have done just that.



[edit on 16-1-2005 by waynos]

Originally posted by waynos
Really? So the Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, LCA, J-10, Mirage 2000, MiG I-42, etc etc all use a rubbish wing do they? your appraisal of the faults in delta wings is a bit off course, as is your erroneous claim that they have 'fallen out of favour'.The point about a delta wing is that it combines a highly swept leading edge for high speed flight with a completely unswept trailing edge which is beneficial during landing and take off.

Of course it has flaws, but so does any wing, there is no such thing as the perfect aerodynamic form, but the delta offers a good compromise across a wide speed range, as long as you take its drawbacks into account and the designers of the planes I listed above aren't fools and will have done just that.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by waynos]

Waynos:

A pure delta wing is garbage in terms of lowspeed abilities and stability. I never said any of those planes were garbage, but most new designs (those coming in the new 10-15 years) will not use a delta wing.

I'm talking pure performance here. Delta has advantages in ease of manufacture that are undeniable, which is why you see them featured on many 'cheap' fighters (i.e. fighters not meant to cost $1b each).

You may choose to disagree with me, but the delta wing, *is not* the best choice IMHO.

Osiris

[edit]
PS: I would never use a delta wing if I planning on a carrier capable aircraft
[/edit]


[edit on 16-1-2005 by otlg27]

The LCA is not a pure delta wing plane..It has a cranked delta wing like the F-16XL...

Also many future aircraft have Delta wing designs for more than 1 reason:

1. Cheaper to construct than other wings..
2. Offers lesser air resistance to supersonic speeds..(remember swing-wing aircraft employ delta struct in supersonic flight?)
(Fastest jets of the future will incorporate delta wing designs, e.g. hyperplanes)
3. Better glide capability because of higher wingsize to toral airframe ratio.
Hence better in case of engine failures and fuel-outs
4. Lesser radar signature because of 'wholeness' of airframe..no sharp incuts...
5. Better for space/air craft type of reusable vehicles which conduct both atmosspheric and space flight..this is obvious because of the easier re-entry dynamics...

The only problem with the delta wing is compromise in manueverability, which can be easily overcome by thrust vectoring and canard-like fins up front and in the rear too..

All in all delta wing rules!!

The Pak-Fa/T-50 incorporates a semi delta wing design



The MCA incoporates a tail less delta wing design:



The future Chinese stealth Fighter J-12 is based on the MiG MAPO MFI fighter:




So the delta is a part of future fighters thats for sure..
Also future UCAVs will be mostly delta wing desinged if im not mistaken

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by mandsin
hi i have a question about kaveri engine. i hard that it failed the test in russia, but what is going on with now. are they redesiging it or what. thanx guys

The Kaveri has now completed over 600 hours of supersonic flight abord the LCA.

Way to go

Originally posted by otlg27
[edit]
PS: I would never use a delta wing if I planning on a carrier capable aircraft

why , may I ask??

Originally posted by otlg27
Ya you gotta 'love' the classic delta wing with all it's inherent flaws... perfect choice for a modern aircraft (that last part is dripping with sarcasm, in case it doesn't come across well). At low sub-sonic speeds (i.e. landing and taking off) delta wings bite the big one, which is why they've fallen out of favour.

But the LCA isn't a classic delta. As I mentioned before, its a cranked delta that blends significantly into the fuselage .

hi guys. can someone give some info on MMR Radar for the LCA. i heard that MMR Radar is under testing on TD-2. is it true. Thanx u Guy

Originally posted by mandsin
hi guys. can someone give some info on MMR Radar for the LCA. i heard that MMR Radar is under testing on TD-2. is it true. Thanx u Guy

The multi-mode radar is to take care of detection, tracking, terrain mapping and delivery of guided weapons. The track-while-scan feature keeps track of multiple targets (maximum 10) and also allows simultaneous multiple target engagement. Pulse-Doppler gives the look-down shoot-down capability. Ground mapping feature, frequency agility and other ECCM techniques make the radar truly state-of-the-art.

The antenna is a light weight (less than 5 kg), low profile slotted waveguide array with a multilayer feed network for broad band operation. The salient technical features are: two plane monopulse signals, low side lobe levels and integrated IFF, and GUARD and BITE channels. The heart of MMR is the signal processor, which is built around VLSI-ASICs and i960 processors to meet the functional needs of MMR in different modes of its operation. Its role is to process the radar receiver output, detect and locate targets, create ground map, and provide contour map when selected. Post-detection processor resolves range and Doppler ambiguities and forms plots for subsequent data processor. The special feature of signal processor is its real-time configurability to adapt to requirements depending on selected mode of operation.

To be jointly developed by State owned HAL and Electronics Radar Development Establishment (ERDE) the project has run into major delays and cost escalations.

Two Avro aircraft - HS748M have been modified for the purposes of testing the radar. The idea of doing these tests on an Avro is that these planes can fly for a longer time and hence collect a lot more data.

PV-2 is now equipped with the Radar and Fire Control System (FCS).

Check weekly LCA tejas development updates .. official site

www.ada.gov.in...






-------------

The LCA tejas's OFFICIAL WEBSITE :

www.ada.gov.in...

check it out.

Indian defence scientists have embarked on an ambitious project to develop an active-radar homing (ARH) ASTRA, a beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) capable of destroying enemy targets located at ranges up to 80 kilometres. The missile will be able to outturn a 9g target at that distance, which means it should be able to engage a non-manoeuvring target in excess of 100 kilometres. The project will be guided and led by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL). ASTRA will weigh 150 kg, making it the lightest in its class and thus enjoying a wide range of applications.

Interestingly some advanced countries and multinational corporations have indicated willingness to join hands for the ASTRA project and this should be welcomed to ensure rapid development and Initial Operational Capability (IOC) with the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Navy. In the long run the ASTRA AAM is set to complement the ultra-long-range Ks-172 and long-range RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) family of BVR AAMs and R-73RDM2 or possibly Python 5 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs in the IAFs AAM inventory.

The emergence of top quality Phased Array radars in IAF service has made it possible to detect enemy fighter-sized targets at ranges well beyond 100 kilometres. Only high-quality stealth platforms will remain “invisible” at those ranges. The primary concern of the IAF and the ASTRA development team will be of positive identification of enemy targets at those extended ranges. IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) still remains a challenging complication and even while the United States Air Force (USAF) tactics are BVR dominated, very few BVR shots occurred in combat prior to Gulf War I ‘Desert Storm’.

During ‘Operation Desert Storm’ the United States Navy (USN) were disallowed the use of their AIM-54 Phoenix BVR AAMs for IFF at extended ranges, because they lacked two-sources of information. USAF fighters did posses on-board systems to supplement data from Airborne Command Posts (ACP) like E-3B 'Sentry' airborne warning and control system (AWACS) platforms and were allowed to conduct BVR engagements.

Thus since IFF remains a problem because of incorrect and absent returns and "spoofing", AWACS platforms are presently deployed for reconfirmation of enemy airborne targets at extended ranges and in this respect the IAF will naturally be benefited by induction of PHALCON AWACS platforms. No more the fighter pilots need to follow the risky "eyeball/shooter" sequence, where the flight leader comes unacceptably close to the enemy formation for positive identification and passes the data to other fighters. His associates then fire the BVR missiles. In the long term, development of electro-optical seeker technology coupled with on-board threat database will let the missiles themselves determine the legitimacy of the target and this seems to be the logical option. This option should be considered for the ASTRA Project.

ASTRA should also have provisions for the futuristic concept of “Cooperative Fighter Operations” or Mixed Fighter Force Concept (MFFC) that is essential for future BVR engagements and optimum performance and results. Pairs of aircraft need to be data-linked, allowing one to launch the missiles against the targets while it is illuminated by another. In such engagements a fighter like our light combat aircraft (LCA) TEJAS, will be able to impart the greatest kinetic energy to the ASTRA by accelerating up to Mach 2 and then manoeuvring out of the engagement. The illuminator fighter such as the Sukhoi-30MKI with powerful radar capable of performing like a mini-AWACS would remain firmly subsonic keeping a decent distance from the target, and providing either command-guidance updates or illuminating the target. The option for an Imaging Infra-Red (IIR) seeker for ASTRA should remain open, as ARH is effective in one set of conditions and IIR in another. The open choice of different seeker heads also complicates the problems of the adversary.

The propulsion system appears to be a Rocket/Ramjet because of “dimension and weight constraints”. Adopting a Rocket/Ramjet approach has certain limitations. The need for controlled airflow to the ramjet ducts means that the “skid-to-turn” manoeuvring of a conventional rocket-powered missile is not acceptable because it will risk masking an intake. Instead “bank-to-turn” manoeuvring needs to be adopted resulting in a reduced instantaneous turn rate. Thus close cooperation with the European Consortium MBDA, the manufacturer of Meteor high-performance BVR AAM will prove to be beneficial. The protracted delay in IOC of missiles like Trishul, Akash and Nag are partly because of absence of joint-cooperation with an established foreign manufacturing consortium. This mistake should not be repeated during development of ASTRA especially as MBDA now enjoys very close relationship with the Indian defence industries.

MBDA Meteor is capable of engaging air targets autonomously, whether fighters, bombers, transport aircraft, AWACS or cruise missiles by using its active radar seeker by day or night and in all weather or dense EW (Electronic Warfare) environments. Meteor’s solid fuel variable-flow rocket/ramjet propulsion system will ensure a range in excess of 100 km and a speed of more than Mach 4 and high terminal velocity. Even when launched from extreme stand-off ranges, the missile will have the energy in the end game to defeat fast, manoeuvring targets. To ensure total target destruction, the missile is equipped with both proximity and impact fuzes and a fragmentation warhead that is detonated at the optimum point to maximise lethality. Guidance is ISN, two-way datalink and active Ku-band radar seeker. It can receive targeting data after launch from the launching fighter, another fighter, or AWACS platforms. The two-way data-link partially solves the IFF problem at long ranges. Naturally inputs from the Meteor project will benefit ASTRA development immensely. Also the control surfaces of ASTRA need to be folded for installation in internal missile bays of fifth-generation fighters and for self-defence installations as Bomber Defence Missile (BDM) and in internal rotary-launchers of long-range Indian Navy Tupolev-22M3 ‘Backfire-C’ aircraft.

The “primary carrier” of ASTRA BVR AAM is slated to be the indigenous LCA Tejas, which made its first flight on January 4, 2001. During the year 2001 LCA TD-1 made a total of twelve flights split between Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal and Wing Commander Raghunath Nambiar. Now along with two TD (Technology Demonstrator) a PV (Prototype Vehicle) mor tests are also being conducting with more PVs to follow. The LCA is slated to attain IOC with the IAF sometime during the year 2007. This can be termed as a remarkable achievement considering a relatively smoother transition from “first-flight” to IOC. The Fly-By-Wire Flight Control System of the LCA has generated great international interest and LCAs low-speed handling and low-altitude manoeuvrability at an early flight-testing stage points to emergence of a formidable fighter.

A recent visitor to our website had lamented the inordinate delay in IOC of the Tejas and it will be interesting to see how other such efforts had fared worldwide. The dates of “first-flight” of few other four-plus or fifth generation fighters are given below:

Company
Aircraft
First Flight

Lockheed Martin/Boeing
F-22 Raptor
September 29, 1990

Dassault
Rafale
May 19, 1991

Eurofighter
Typhoon
March 29, 1994

Saab
Gripen
December 8, 1988

In each case there was a gap of nearly 10 years between the “first-flight” and IOC and so the progress of our LCA project is comparable. The aim of Indian Defence Research scientists and the IAF should be to field a similarly upgraded LCA before 2010 with upgrades allotted to Swedish Gripen, which is somewhat similar in size and configuration. These should include Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar and a formidable defensive avionics suite, which detects the threats of not only incoming radar guided missiles, but also of missiles that use the infrared and ultra-violet spectrum. Laser warning should also be an option. Add to all these a laser "device" capable of generating enough directed energy to snap the guidance of incoming radar and infrared guided AAMs seem to be obligatory on all fighters by the middle of the next decade. It was reported in the media that a 25 KW to 100 KW laser weapon was being developed for the projected United States F-35 JSF (Joint Strike Fighter).

Considering the fact that LCA is set to serve for a good part of the first half of this century, it should be a highly competitive design in terms of aerodynamics, engine, radar, avionics, EW suite and weaponry in relation to the JSF. In terms of stealth attributes JSF will retain an advantage, but LCA will also be low observable and even marginal superiority on other attributes may turn it into a great equalizer.

In some respects a delay in the LCA programme may be a “blessing in disguise” as now it derives or will derive the benefits of incorporation of the technological excellence of Sukhoi-30MKI and the Russian fifth-generation fighter projects in future. Development in “Block Update Versions” is now ensured.

Interesting post, thank you.

I wonder how this programme will actually work, by which I mean will it be an all new Indian design with assistance by MBDA as stated or will it be a development of the Meteor tailored to the needs of India and Indian aircraft?

I know the article states the former but it is possible that could be just be 'spin' while the latter option might see the weapon deployed more quickly.

waynos check out this thread too

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Update on the project

Tejas being integrated with weapon systems, multi-mode radar

Work on weapon systems and integration of the multi-mode radar in Tejas, the home-grown Light Combat Aircraft has begun while three prototypes of the supersonic fighter have flown 340 test sorties.

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the design agency for the LCA, a unit of DRDO, today said three Tejas aircraft have been flying upto an altitude of 15 km, speed of Mach 1.4 and angle of attack of 20 degrees and Gravity Pull (G) of over 4.5 to minus 1.0 G limits during test flights.

...

Eight test pilots of the Indian Air Force have evaluated these aircraft, including Air Cmde R K Sharma, the present project director (Flight test).

"The handling qualities as well as the performance of these aircraft have been adjudged superb," ADA said.

The fourth prototype (PV-2) is undergoing systems integration test prior to its clearance for flight.

nice to hear that PV-2 is under weapon integration. anyone know how long it going to take for weapon integration. thanx