An artefact from heaven here on earth today?

reply to post by markosity1973


"IF your theory is correct, and I am open to being shown evidence to support it"

Cant do that im afraid, any working conspiracy on this level has not a shred of evidence that's not circumstantial. "They" are just that good at what they do!

"It would mean that that there is external (extraterrestrial or spiritual) forces at work."

Well we seem to agree there atleast. I just dont think they give a crap.

"I sincerely doubt that mankind could not have created the miracle of the sun at Fatima on his own in an age when most homes did not have electricity and TV was not yet invented."

There is nothing new under the Sun, just something to remember!

Try googling Vatican Chronovisor that will give you somekind of idea as to the level of technology available to them.

reply to post by andy06shake


The Chronovisor is at best a good conspiracy story and now I know where the TV series Fringe gets the idea of a viewer that can see another universe from.

Even IF this were real, it only uses an antiquated old CRT to view. It is a receiver and is just tuned to some as yet unidentified electromagnetic wave source. It all sounds hlghly speculative to me and does not explain how the church could had singlehandedly reproduced the miracle of the sun, or the sign over the mountains in Europe by themselves let alone produce a parchment with strange qualities out of thin air.

Until solidly proven otherwise, I am going with the obvious - she is who she says she is.

reply to post by markosity1973


"Until solidly proven otherwise, I am going with the obvious - she is who she says she is."

So just because some whack job claims to have met/been in direct contact with the Virgin Mary you automatically take her at face value! Thats whats wrong with religion and the Earth in general these days. To much trust and not enough questions IMHO.

reply to post by andy06shake

Honesty is always welcome

I have done a lot more research and questioning than you credit me for. I choose to come to my conclusions based on a mixture of personal experience at Medjugorje and best fit explanations based upon the big picture instead of indvidual cases.

If Mary were an alien for instance, why would she not just come out and tell us? What is the point of charading as some biblical figure that not many christians accept anyway?

reply to post by markosity1973


"I have done a lot more research and questioning than you credit me for."

Dont sell yourself short mate. You seem capable of having an intelligent debate without resorting to name calling or other tomfoolery. Not something i find with most organised religious people i converse with here on ATS. I believe in God probably just as much as yourself, just in a different fashion.

reply to post by andy06shake

I do apologise if you considered my response name calling or tomfoolery. I was however merely responding to the statement of too much trust and not enough research.

The fact is that I have been studying these events since the 1980's, and I have visited Fatima, Lourdes and Medjugorje, the Vatican as well as been to a lesser known but well publicised at the time Marian apparition in NZ. I have heard numerous people speak and have watched every video clip I can get my hands on with regards to Marian apparitions. I have met some of the visionaries and spoken to key members of the clergy on the matter.

To counterbalance, I have read up, watched videos, been to a few seminars etc on theories ranging from new age crystalline technology to benevolent aliens posing as religious figures to demons posing as Mary, to project bluebeam, mass hallucinations, mundane explanations like freak weather patterns etc etc.

So, once again, I do apologise if I caused you offence, but I do believe that when it comes to this matter, I can speak with a reasonable amount of knowledge and understanding. If anyone does have new information or evidence, I am willing to look and listen as my mind remains open to new things.

Is there a listing some place that shows what she has said and what has come to pass?

reply to post by guitarplayer


Hi guitar and thanks for the question. As far as Medjugorje goes, no there is not. Not all of the visionaries have received all ten secrets yet and none have been revealed to the world as yet. However, if you look up Fatima, you will find a story about the three secrets that have come to pass there. The great light that was predicted before WW2 was well documented in the press of the day.

reply to post by markosity1973


I have read that no one outside of the Popes have read all three secrets and the revealing of the third has been watered down. The u-tube says she’s been around since 88 or so. So none of the 10 prophecies have been revealed? So how is it that she is a prophet?

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by markosity1973

 

I have read that no one outside of the Popes have read all three secrets and the revealing of the third has been watered down. The u-tube says she’s been around since 88 or so. So none of the 10 prophecies have been revealed? So how is it that she is a prophet?

Hi Guitar,

Thanks for the questions and my apologies for the short reply earlier - I was at work.

To give you a brief run down on Medjugorje, Mary started appearing there in 1981, while what was back then Yugoslavia was very much still a communist country. One of the early prophecies she made at Medjugorje was the request for everyone in the parish to start praying and fasting to stop the war. Way back then nobody knew what on earth she was talking about. I visited in 1993 and the local parish priest, father Jozo (? I think that was his name) recounted this story to us pilgrims. We were there during some of the worst fighting of the war and the people of the village only knew too well what she had meant when she asked that.

The stunning thing about the village as we discovered is that even though the war had made several attempts to overrun it, including a day when I was there (yes, I was among the bombing) they could never get the place. They were shelling the village and I can remember being in church as they were going off, yet feeling completely safe - weird huh. No major damage was caused and we were told that this was the closest the fighting had got yet.

The Serbs even tried to bomb the village by plane but got frustrated because it kept disappearing under low cloud so they could not find it. One day they dropped several bombs (cannot remember the exact number) and not a single one detonated. In fact, in a somewhat morbidly amsusing twist, the only fatalities that day were a cow and a chicken that the unexploded bomb landed on. I have heard all of these stores first hand from the villagers themselves who had complete belief in the fact that God was protecting their village, although there were a couple of times in the war when the villagers left because of the fear that the war would overrun it.

As far as the word prophecy goes, it can mean either to predict the future, or just speak God's word. See below for a definition from dictionary.com

proph·e·sy
[prof-uh-sahy] Show IPA verb, proph·e·sied, proph·e·sy·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to foretell or predict.
2.
to indicate beforehand.
3.
to declare or foretell by or as if by divine inspiration.
4.
to utter in prophecy or as a prophet.
verb (used without object)
5.
to make predictions.
6.
to make inspired declarations of what is to come.
7.
to speak as a mediator between God and humankind or in God's stead.
8.
Archaic. to teach religious subjects.

As for the ten secrets, the story has always gone that once all of the visionaries had received them, they would start to occur and would be revealed according to the divine time plan that Mirjana has on the parchment, hence the title and subject of this thread - the parchment itself. To date, not all of the visionaries have been told all of the secrets, hence why nothing has happened, but it will soon(ish) as Mary has given Mirjana the responsibility of revealing the secrets, and she is older than me (I am nearly 40 now) so we can assume that everything will come to pass in the next say 40 (ish) years.

There is another site called Garabandal that also has secrets that one of the visionaries are supposed to tell the world. This visionary is a lot older, so this date may be a lot closer that we think.

As for the third secret of Fatima, you might be interested on my thread here about it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

While there is no official confirmation on the version of the secret I have presented in the thread, it does make absolute sense to someone who has been studying the events for a long time now.

reply to post by markosity1973


Buddy chill! I have in no way taken offence to anything you have said. In fact i dont think you could have been more polite!