The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

This is just another example of a man going against his own god's word (not to participate in fruitless debate) and preaching to the choir (using tired arguments that will not sway those who don't already agree with him). I'm sure he even makes money doing what he does.
A rally cry of sorts.

It is boring.

Originally posted by JayinAR
fruitless debate

I know you were talking about the guy in the audio, but thanks for pointing it out to me as well because I do the same thing.

Facts and numbers won't make people want God, only love will do that.




I'll check back to see if anyone has any good points or questions but other than that i'm resigning from the debate.

reply to post by iSHRED


Hey, I agree though that it is foolish to make absolute claims such as "God does not exist."

Fact of the matter is nobody knows.

But to say science goes about the pursuit of knowledge the wrong way is equally as foolish. Religious rule had its day in Western Society and it was completely stagnant. It took a Cultural Renaissance to break religion's grip on society and we have come a long, LONG ways since then.

Science is currently man's best method of attaining knowledge - period. Someone may not like it, but to argue against it is to defy logic and results.

Meh. It's the same stuff that all the intelligent designer people say. I believe I was listening to part 2.

"How can evolutionists explain how life can come from non life". The basic strawman that determines very quickly if these clowns know what they are talking about. Evolution has nothing to do with that and this guy is pretty much asking how we can explain consciousness without god. Well, how do you explain it WITH god? Ask him that and he will draw a blank or revert to scripture quoting. Just because we can't fully explain something doesn't mean automatically that its god.

Oh god! This is too funny now. Check this quote:

"We know from all kinds of anthropological studies that man has this innate desire to worship something or someone greater than himself. We're born with that. How do you explain that?"

Let's see, it is common practice to indoctrinate children into whatever religion they are born into. They aren't born with some magical desire. They are taught that its the only way to live and are forced to accept it as true. This guy is just rambling, nothing substantial to suggest god exists. You can call somebody a fool because they won't blindly believe in your religion, but that's just your opinion of something you couldn't possibly know to be true or false.

Belief in god is NOT a survival trait and never was, except maybe during the dark ages when people were tortured for not believing. I suppose it would be a survival related back then, but it's not a trait, it's a belief that is a product of the environment you are born into, it's not programmed. How else could you possibly explain the fact that most people take on the religion of their parents and the religion of the area they are born in. It's not a random guess, it's a fact of life.

"Not all evolutionists are atheists, but ALL atheists are evolutionists". What a load of crap. I know atheists that don't believe in evolution. (They aren't very bright like most science dismissers and are rare, though)

No evolutionary biologist believes we are genetically programmed to worship god. That's a lie. If we are programmed to worship god, then why is it, the only time I ever felt like I needed to was when my parents forced it on me as a child when I was too naive to believe anything else? Where is this desire now? Why did it vanish simply because I got older and learned more about science and the way the universe works?

This guy clearly knows absolutely nothing about evolution. Minds are not programmed to believe things. That is the part of our psychological development that comes from ENVIRONMENT. It's not just genetics. This guys hasn't a clue about the very basic fundamentals of science.

Where do we get the sense of right and wrong if there is no divine designer? (paraphrase)

Maybe this guy has never heard of empathy? You know, put your self in someone else's shoes? Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. Funny, for a guy promoting Christianity, he doesn't seem to remember the teachings of Jesus. I know something is wrong if it causes unnecessary suffering to others. It really is that simple. You don't need a programmed brain with a moral code to do this. If it was really programmed into our consciousness, then how do you explain the large amount of people who constantly break this code? Sorry. It doesn't hold weight.

Ironically later he says, "We can't trust society to tell us what's right and wrong". Oh really? So in other words, we can't trust them to teach us about religion or god.

"How do you explain the altruistic actions of other people if there is no god"

Emapthy. Same as above. Claiming you need a god to have a moral compass is absurd and is self righteous nonsense. How do you explain the negative actions if there IS a god? It goes both ways, you can't just ignore one side while promoting the other.

"Why do people keep finding god if he doesn't exist". Bahahahaha. This guy is not smart at all. "Finding god" doesn't mean you actually found him, it means you BELIEVE in god and found religion (man made religion).

There's an add asking for donations, and then he starts talking about non believers that now believe as if it proves anything.

"Evolution has no answer for why millions of people would embrace a lie." (talking about believing in god). What does that have to do with evolution? It's a personal belief that is popular in society so many believe it. It's like any trend. Evolution doesn't tell you to go buy the latest Lady Gaga music or to wear the latest Nike sneakers. We are conscious and we make decisions. This dude has no clue.

"The consequences of not believing in god, if he exists, are far greater than drinking a class of poison tea"

Wrong. It's the consequences of not believing in YOUR god, with no evidence and the ridiculously slim possibility that he might exist. Also, those consequences exist for almost all the popular religions, so why succumb to Christianity? Why not Islam? Better believe it all, just in case one turns out to be wrong and you're destined for hell. That's basically what you call believing something out of fear, which is not good or conducive to reality in the least. Hell is a fraud, and without it Christianity has nothing left to milk society. Believe our religion or else. It's dark ages mentality, but without the physical torture and abuse. How can anybody believe a religion that's been spread by the sword and coerced on the people with threats of death and torture for not believing and condones basic dismissal of science and logic.

I want you to STARE at this picture. Our HOME....for now.
What more "proof" of a "god" does one need? Something CREATED that! How do i know? WE ARE FLOATING IN AIR.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by iSHRED
I'd rather just discuss the content of what he said.

Dowloaded and scanned through the first one to get an idea of what he had to say.

His argument was a very long winded way of putting forward two tired old chestnuts...
- The "watchmaker" argument, first proposed by William Paley in 1802.
- The "its all too improbable to have happened by chance alone", therefore : God.

Bit of which sound lovely but dont stand up to any scrutiny at all.

You have to admit it is a step in the right direction at least. An attempt to form a basic argument is being made, he could have just done the classic "god told me he is real" thing.

Originally posted by RandyBragg
You have to admit it is a step in the right direction at least. An attempt to form a basic argument is being made, he could have just done the classic "god told me he is real" thing.

Logical fallacies are not steps in the right direction. The dude can believe what he wants, but crapping on top of proven science is uncalled for, and same with the way he marginalizes the atheist position. The watchmaker fallacy is the oldest argument in the book and relies on a complete guess.

TextProve me that this salvation is real, and not another bedtime story fro the sheep from the "authority". Bring me "other side" whitnesses. Give any single point or even a hint of evidence of the existence of salvation ?

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


@ MarioOnTheFly

Can't prove a thing to you or myself. Just a matter of opinion. Some folks say that the universe is expanding and some folks say it isn't expanding. Doesn't really matter does it? Cause if you could prove that the universe is expanding then I could ask you what is the universe expanding into? Then you would get mad again and call me all sorts of names. That is why it really doesn't matter to me what you believe. Some day yours and my time will come to take a dirt nap and then it still won't matter will it? Just a matter of opinion.

reply to post by BlowinSmoke


So you take the, "I know so because I cannot fathom any other way" approach. That's fine. Just don't hold it against people when they actually make an effort to understand the world around them.

Originally posted by iSHRED
I'll check back to see if anyone has any good points or questions but other than that i'm resigning from the debate.

Oh, thats a pity, I was waiting for the enlightening moment when Dr Jeffress' argument would produce something new to support any assertion that any god exists.
I agree that a fool would assert there are no gods, but equally, a fool would assert there are.
It's all a faith based argument, no-one knows anything which could be claimed as factual proof.

Personally, I do not believe in such mystical entities due to lack of any evidence strong enough to convince me.
If others perceive 'evidence' that satisfies their questioning minds then good luck to them, but remember it is belief alone. Dr Jeffress does not bring anything new to the debate to draw me towards his line of thinking.

Originally posted by Barcs
"The consequences of not believing in god, if he exists, are far greater than drinking a class of poison tea"

Pascal's Wager, from 1600's.
As I said before, this guy is just rehashing old arguments that have been done to death before,
brings nothing new or original to the table,
so why is he worthy of any discussion at all?

For those who dont believe in God... Why do you think the universe can be explained without God?

what is the significance of whether or not a god created the universe, what would that change for you and others?

How do you view the universe? what do you think it is? how do you feel about it? how long do you think existence (somethingness) has existed? why was there an exact quantity of energy, and why were the laws of physics in favor of a universe that turned out the way we view it, are it, and exist within it, allowing us to do all we have ever done and can ever do?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
For those who dont believe in God... Why do you think the universe can be explained without God?

As much as science has gone good ways towards explaining the nature of the universe, it should also be recognised that there are probably many questions about it that will never be answered, mostly due to lack of data.

But you cant just go and say.... "Science cant explain it all, therefore : God"

These threads are always always the same.. Now.. The following, is actually a show that usually talks about games, but, they had some remarks to make regarding faith, and it's exactly what I've been trying to tell people for a long time, but, they somehow don't seem to get it. Hopefully, they can shed some light on that closed mind that so many of you have.

Extra Credits Season 5, Episode 18

Originally posted by jeramie

Originally posted by MrUncreated
It's not that there isn't a god, it's just that they don't care about us. At least that's the conclusion I come to when I look around. Hard to believe there's a god who would allow half the # that runs rampant on this ball of mud.

God cares more about us than we could ever imagine. He offers us the plan of salvation through means which is available to anybody and everybody, if they just accept it.

What you are saying doesn't even make sense. If I take a sack of puppies and throw it into a dryer on low heat, and tell them I will turn the machine off if they accept me as their master, what does that make me? Okay, then. That's your god.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by Barcs
"The consequences of not believing in god, if he exists, are far greater than drinking a class of poison tea"

Pascal's Wager, from 1600's.
As I said before, this guy is just rehashing old arguments that have been done to death before,
brings nothing new or original to the table,
so why is he worthy of any discussion at all?

Very true. I just figured I'd break it down for the people who may not have heard those arguments. It's so easy, the creationist movement as a whole hasn't brought any new arguments at all in at least 5 years. It's the same deceptive lies over and over.

Originally posted by MrUncreated
What you are saying doesn't even make sense. If I take a sack of puppies and throw it into a dryer on low heat, and tell them I will turn the machine off if they accept me as their master, what does that make me? Okay, then. That's your god.

Right on.

A benevolent god would never threaten his own creation with idea of eternal torture, without even notifying us of his presence. We're just supposed to guess that god XYZ is the true god or we suffer eternally? That's the main reason I think most religions are a joke. They prey (haha) upon people being afraid not to believe.

Originally posted by Barcs

Right on.

A benevolent god would never threaten his own creation with idea of eternal torture, without even notifying us of his presence. We're just supposed to guess that god XYZ is the true god or we suffer eternally? That's the main reason I think most religions are a joke. They prey (haha) upon people being afraid not to believe.

edit on 10-1-2013 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

That's also true, but that isn't even what I was getting at. Creating a bad situation and throwing us into it, not lifting a finger to stop the murder of children, genocide, rape and disfigurement of women, etc. Not making the slightest peep whatsoever. And then a person with a bible claims that if I accept him, I can be saved? And what about the people who've already done that? They're still here, stuck on the same hell with the rest of us. Give me a break. When's the last time anyone has ever seen a miracle, or a sign from god, or anything worthwhile? All I see is murder and terror, more of the same, just a different day.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
For those who dont believe in God... Why do you think the universe can be explained without God?

what is the significance of whether or not a god created the universe, what would that change for you and others?

God is a human construct. The rest is irrelevant.

How do you view the universe? what do you think it is? how do you feel about it? how long do you think existence (somethingness) has existed? why was there an exact quantity of energy, and why were the laws of physics in favor of a universe that turned out the way we view it, are it, and exist within it, allowing us to do all we have ever done and can ever do?

We come from the universe, we weren't made for it.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
what is the significance of whether or not a god created the universe, what would that change for you and others?

Thank you! So simple, so eloquently direct -

How do you view the universe? what do you think it is? how do you feel about it? how long do you think existence (somethingness) has existed? why was there an exact quantity of energy, and why were the laws of physics in favor of a universe that turned out the way we view it, are it, and exist within it, allowing us to do all we have ever done and can ever do?

I think believers and non believers alike would benefit from taking the time to ponder these questions.