Freeman, Sovereign Citizen, Strawman, Oh My!

After the debacle yesterday where a member tried to post the ramblings of a convicted felon (who is admittedly trying to declare that it's not so) that if you simply write Endorsed pursuant to 12 USC 411 Redeemable in Lawful Money on the backs of your checks and money, that you can waltz into a bank and the money is yours free and clear, no taxes, no strings attached and that the bank can no longer use that money to make loans, and somehow it pays down the Public Debt, and the Fed Reserve would crash and burn as a result (as well as most banks), I started to think about this whole movement and how dangerous it really is to those of us that are trying to effect change in government through legal and established channels.

Let's start a little by diving into the core belief of this whole thing.

You are actually two people, a natural person and a legal fiction, they are denoted by one being in all CAPS and one being your name:familyname.....

The point behind this one is supposedly, for every single person born in the United States after 1933, the US Government holds a certain amount of money in the Treasury with you as collateral. It also goes on to state that your Birth Certificate and any other documents, because they write your name in all caps, is a "legal fiction" and that all caps person does not exist, and if you cast it off, you are free from taxes and mortgages and the like. (I so wish..) The reality is somewhat less exciting. They use block capitals to denote your name on forms because (wait for it) it's easier to read. Not because they are taking out a loan on you, or because you're some sort of straw man that is used to pay taxes etc.. Simple readability.

Starting with this core idea, the "freeman" movement takes it even further, and states quite boldly:

If you file a bunch of forms with lots of legal sounding terms, they will go away..

A good example of one of these bits of form is as follows:

Note: Veronica Chapman is a made up name for this, I don't' know if someone with this name tired this or not

I, Veronica: of the Chapman family, hereinafter known as Veronica: Chapman, a flesh and blood human being in possession of a sovereign and individual spirit, a living soul, do hereby make Oath and state the following is My Truth and My Law: Whereas it is my understanding that in terms of earthly existence there is no species more supreme than a living, breathing, imaginative human being blessed with a living soul, and ...

Whereas it is my understanding a living soul who chooses by free will not to be a member of any society can be referred to as a Freeman-on-the-land, and Whereas it is my understanding a Freeman-on-the-land remains entirely and solely under Common Law jurisdiction, and Whereas I Veronica: Chapman am a Freeman-on-the-land, and ...

Now reading that it seems formal and well thought out and well.. legal, except that it isn't. These declarations are used daily to get out of things as simple as traffic tickets or as in depth as trying to get the IRS to pay off your debt from the secret fund they have going in your name (I so wish, I really really wish it were true, but alas it's not)

Now where did this idea of you being a "freeman" and the government making a "strawman" come from? Well, here, read this entry for yourself...

The notion originated in the US with white supremacist Roger Elvick, who pushed it through the 1980s and early 1990s. He went to jail, of course.

Yeap.. well.. that says volumes about all of this doesn't it now...

So that brings us to the inevitable, the ways they tell you to beat the system, and some of these are just too funny to list, but I'll touch on two of them:

Accepted for Value / Redemption Scam
You wanna go to jail? Pay huge fines? Try writing Accepted for Value on some documents and see how far it gets you. The premise behind this one is, that you are a bit of collateral in some huge moneybank. The US Government, when it issues your Birth Certificate is actually pledging you as collateral on a debt, wait, it's easier to read what Elvick said about it.

Elvick believed that the government deposits exactly $630,000 into a hidden bank account linked to the newborn American and administered by a Jewish cabal.

Also..

if you complete the correct magical legal manoeuvrings, you can avail yourself of the $630,000 held in the name of your doppelganger persona, and that after filing the correct paperwork at the courthouse declaring oneself a sovereign citizen, one's home loans and other debts can be paid in full by tendering a "sight draft" or "bill of exchange" in the name of the U.S. Treasury.

Hmm, free money .. YAY.. except that it doesn't work that way.. If you put this



On your IRS documents, guess what.. a Jail you are headed...... Just ask Casey Serin, the man who really really pushed this one to it's limits...

and finally the newest one of all this, 12 USC 411.. Which I bashed my head against a wall over and over and over last night trying to get through someone's head.. The courts have over and over held that a Federal Reserve Note is "lawful money" it does not mean that it is tax free, it does not mean the banks can't use it to loan out, and it really doesn't mean you're entitled to cripple the USA's financial system by writing:

Redeemed in Lawful money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411 True name dba Legal name

In fact, anyone remember the little bit of Facebook legalese that was supposed to protect your privacy a while back? How it was all bunk too? Well this is just as bunk because simply put, it's a misinterpretation of a very old and since changed law, and no amount of big sounding legalese is going to change that..

Wonder why it doesn't actually "restrict" the banks? Because when you opened your account you signed a little document that said you agreed with their terms and conditions and one of those is that they can terminate your account upon demand... try it... see how fact they close your account...

To conclude, there's a lot more I could write on this and probably will at some point (my hands are really cramped right now and my browser window looks like it's on overload with all the tabs) but this is a friendly reminder that if it's too good to be true, it probably is a scam...

reply to post by vkey08


Well done! I can't imagine taking the time to explain that here, knowing full well the people who should read it won't lol. But I applaud your efforts.

the same "freeman" crap has been tried here in Canada too, don't think it got very far. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

To a lesser extent you could add in the whole federal income tax is a fraud deal here too. While it's true that it appears not enough states rattified that amendment, it still holds in court, and has every time someone tried to use it as an excuse not to pay.

Sure, declare yourself a free man, go for it. Personally I see it this way:

You declare yourself a "sovereign" person and refuse to recognize any government power over you... Well, better pack your bags, you are in the US illegally. And we all know how fun that can be with the new anti-terror laws, not being considered a human being and all.

You can continue to declare your sovereignty from your prison cell.

===============

that if you simply write Endorsed pursuant to 12 USC 411 Redeemable in Lawful Money on the backs of your checks and money,

Wait. I'm pretty sure it's not enforced, but I do believe it's illegal to destroy, damage or deface money. I know that here in Canada when you doodle on a bill, once that bill makes it back to a bank, it's destroyed. I assume a similar equally ridiculous statute exists in the US.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


it's less about the defacement of the currency (even though that is patently illegal here it's not prosecuted, most times they just simply remove the bill from circulation and replace it with a crisp new one) and more about the thought that if you write that jibberish you're somehow getting a different kind of money, and therefore crashing the banking system and Federal Reserve because they can no longer make loans upon it...

Although, we do have a defacement statute, they normally only use it for counterfeit bills:

Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

- US Treasury

Where are the links to your off-site content blocks so we can research this for ouselves?


This all reminds me of the infamous Maritime Law (?) and how we are all subjects of the UK, as mentioned in many documentaries created by in5d and the sorts. Or Russo's Freedom to Fascism.

reply to post by capod2t


Try starting here:

Quatloos

They link to just about every scam known, also:

Rational Wiki

I did not use the FBI or Treasury Department definitions of these ideas because I didn't feel that they were unbiased enough to work.

Oh and of course Scambusters

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by vkey08

 

You declare yourself a "sovereign" person and refuse to recognize any government power over you... Well, better pack your bags, you are in the US illegally.



===============

that if you simply write Endorsed pursuant to 12 USC 411 Redeemable in Lawful Money on the backs of your checks and money,

Wait. I'm pretty sure it's not enforced, but I do believe it's illegal to destroy, damage or deface money. I know that here in Canada when you doodle on a bill, once that bill makes it back to a bank, it's destroyed. I assume a similar equally ridiculous statute exists in the US.

edit on 8-1-2013 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)

Well if you think about it, those are the people not paying income taxes are using the system for what it's worth, have not been expelled from the country and in fact, have been granted free movement within the society. Maybe they're on to something.

Try starting here:

Quatloos

They link to just about every scam known, also:

Rational Wiki

I did not use the FBI or Treasury Department definitions of these ideas because I didn't feel that they were unbiased enough to work.

Oh and of course Scambusters:

reply to post by vkey08


Thanks!
I've got some work to do now

youtu.be... youtu.be... this is something to consider when debunking the above

aarontile
youtu.be... youtu.be... this is something to consider when debunking the above

Old urban legends based upon a rather unique reading of an old law that says nothing of the sort..

S+F for stirring the hornets nest. I've been over this issue with few people. I have issued them a challenge to provide any law that changes a persons legal status with use of caps. Noone has provided anything. Their responses were like "it's hidden so only a discerning person can find it" however even thought they claim to know the law and this secret they were not able to source it with the relating laws. Also one even more absurd claim was that it was old roman law. Completely ignoring the facts that romans didn't even know capital lettering and the US is not using old roman law.

Excellent thread. I wish this were true too, but it's really just splitting a lot of hairs and ending up..well...nowhere that actually makes sense.

Besides, who thinks that the bankers would be stupid enough to leave a loophole like that? Furthermore, even if they did, who really thinks it wouldn't be closed by now? The people that invent these systems aren't stupid, and it will take a lot more than stamping your money to bring it all crashing down.

S&F for this good thread!