What's really killing Americans. HINT: It's not guns!

America’s Biggest Killers: The Chart Anti-Gunners Don’t Want You To See
ericpetersautos.com...

According to statistics assembled from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Center for Disease Control and the Federal Government, firearms related homicides are minuscule in comparison to other the other “big killers” in the United States.

If we look at homicide statistics in the United States it’s clear that more murders are committed with knives, bats, hammers and poisons than with firearms. As Kurt Nimmo recently noted, “ the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outpaces the number of murders committed with a rifle.”

The facts, not the drivel being spewed by the anti-gun propaganda machine, leave us wondering why some State and Federal lawmakers are so adamant about restricting the sale and ownership of handguns and rifles, especially since the majority of gun owners – close to 99% – have never committed a violent crime in their lives, let alone used a gun to do so.

DID YOU KNOW?

Twice as many Americans are murdered by bare hands than by rifles.
"We need fist control!"

More Americans are killed by lightning bolts every year, than mass shootings.
"How many more? ENOUGH! Demand a plan!"

More American kids have been killed playing baseball than in school shootings.
"Ban baseballs!"

For every 1 American killed with any type of gun, nearly 90 are killed by alcohol related causes!
Do the drunks in Congress want to ban beer and wine?

What's the solution?

The 1938 German weapons act might give a clue as to where the U.S government is going with gun control (i.e a permit based system):

The 1938 German Weapons Act

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]

The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]

The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]

The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]

Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition.[6]

Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.

On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's cancer and heart disease.

And aids and stuff.

Since one of the first things that will come up (Since you mentioned Hitler) will be the anti-gun stance that in fact Hitler made it easier to own and procure guns. Which is partly true, although that was for people on his side, not his enemies.

This came in a thread I made about gun control.

In any case, I will quote myself:

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by ArtooDetoo

 

What you addressed also came up in another thread, so I figured I may as well cross post what I did in the other. In any case, you didn't really think millions of Jews merrily went on their way into a gas chamber did you? Certainly in many circumstances they were tricked into their ultimate fate, but rumours are quite hard to suppress over time, and certainly harder when such an atrocity is being committed.

The Nazis were not only superior fighters, they were also great propagandist, and went out of their way to deceive the Jews1. As the Jews were forced to board cramped cattle cars they were lead to believe they were being relocated to better living conditions. Thousands of Jews undressed and entered the gas chambers believing they were entering showers or disinfectant rooms.

The secret couldn't be kept forever and in the later years word of the genocide started getting around. "Rumors" began to spread that the trains were actually "relocating" people to their death, and that the work in "work camps" consisted of exterminating people and disposing of their bodies.

At this point armed and organized resistance didnt seem plausible. The remaining Jews were weak, dispersed, confined, unarmed and facing the experienced Nazi war-machine. They feared any attempt at organized resistance would be ineffective, and worse, it would only bring a stronger backlash, enraging the Nazis and causing them to kill, torture and maim even more Jews. (Which is what always happened after failed uprising attempts).

www.askmoses.com...

Here is a link for a Third Reich propaganda resource. In it you will see that it was Jews who were targeted for gun control. (No gunpun intended.)

- - - - - - - - - -

Furthermore, it's quite evident that guns are not the underlying factor that causes murder. In fact the murder rates and general violent crime rates have dropped over the past couple thousand years. Long before guns were around there was much more violence.

Listen to Steven Pinker about the surprising decline in violence.

It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

reply to post by WP4YT


I myself was getting tired of all the rants about gun control so I myself did a little research and was stunned at how the politicians are trying to scare the public with the issue of guns and it really irks me how they are exploiting the horrific school tragedy to push their agenda. And the deaths by guns are extremely low on the list despite what TPTB would have people believe.

I'm glad you're posting this......don't let the anti-gun posters derail this by bringing up the school shooting.

S&F

snarky


Number of deaths from Medical Malpractice VS. Gun deaths


People don't need to be afraid of guns....
Fear the disinformation that is being spread by MSM and our leaders.

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

There is NOT a high murder rate by guns in the US......

Out of a population over 315 million, according to FBI reports, in 2011, approx. 12,775 people were killed by guns by way of homicide, suicide, or killed by cops. A majority of those were due to criminal activity.

Don't believe the disinfo spewed by the MSM...

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Do you know what negligent homicide is? Killing someone drunk driving is negligent homicide or vehicular manslaughter. I think you are downplaying something that is quite serious yourself.

In the United States the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that 17,941 people died in 2006 in alcohol-related collisions, representing 40% of total traffic deaths in the US.

High-profile mass shootings have fueled debate over gun policies.[3] In 2010 there were 358 deaths involving rifles. Deaths involving the use of pistols in the US that same year totalled 6,009 including suicides.[4]

I think it puts things into perspective. It's a valid discussion and an appropriate angle to approach the matter.

MURDER, MANSLAUGHTER, VEHICULAR HOMICIDE, DUI
WITH SERIOUS BODILY INJURY AND FELONY DUI

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

There is NOT a high murder rate by guns in the US......

Out of a population over 315 million, according to FBI reports, in 2011, approx. 12,775 people were killed by guns by way of homicide, suicide, or killed by cops. A majority of those were due to criminal activity.

Don't believe the disinfo spewed by the MSM...

That IS high compared to other countries. Those numbers are actually incorrect, if you want to include suicides it totals about 32000.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Do you know what negligent homicide is? Killing someone drunk driving is negligent homicide. I think you are downplaying something that is quite serious yourself.

In the United States the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that 17,941 people died in 2006 in alcohol-related collisions, representing 40% of total traffic deaths in the US.

igh-profile mass shootings have fueled debate over gun policies.[3] In 2010 there were 358 deaths involving rifles. Deaths involving the use of pistols in the US that same year totalled 6,009 including suicides.[4]

I think it puts things into perspective. It's a valid discussion and an appropriate angle to approach the matter.

So? I haven't downplayed anything, I'm saying that regardless of how far down the list it is it's still not ok and it's still an issue. Comparing it to other things, especially lightning and accidents, is stupid. Stop trying to bury it under other things, most of which aren't even intentional deaths.

We can't forget about the most notorious serial killers in the world...

Our "governments".

They are the REAL mass murderers...

400 MILLION people were murdered by "DEATH BY GOVERNMENT".

Even the sickest serial killers have NOTHING on the state.

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered

Maybe it is a lot of people but it doesn't change the point, Guns are not the biggest killers in the USA..

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

Most of the things on the list can be controlled.. If anything, the do the exact same as what people want done with guns, ban them. Tobacco, Alcohol etc can be controlled.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered

Maybe it is a lot of people but it doesn't change the point, Guns are not the biggest killers in the USA..

Oh, that's fine then, those 12000 or so lives lost were ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

By the way, no one was claiming guns were the biggest killers in the USA, they are however the biggest intentional killers.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

There is NOT a high murder rate by guns in the US......

Out of a population over 315 million, according to FBI reports, in 2011, approx. 12,775 people were killed by guns by way of homicide, suicide, or killed by cops. A majority of those were due to criminal activity.

Don't believe the disinfo spewed by the MSM...

That IS high compared to other countries.

Even if the population was disarmed, there will still be crime [death] due to the fact that the thugs, the criminals, will ALWAYS find guns and use them. Most of the deaths are from them and their criminal activity. And it will never stop. More than likely, it would increase if the gangs knew no one except officials had guns. It would be a free for all to them and we would all be left vulnerable and defenseless.

But being as our country probably owns the most guns also, it is still a low percentage when considering the large population of people.

We need to focus more on our health issues.
They are the top killers in our country that kill millions.

reply to post by WP4YT


I'm neither here nor there on the gun control debate in the US, yet if pushed off the fence, I'd side for the citizens of the US to uphold their constitutional rights.

What interests me though, is that these types of comparison charts have been used in debates/discussions often recently and the figures appear to be reasonably consistant.

Now, if it were possible to throw age categories in to the mix, how would the comparison charts appear then??

For example, lets look at the 5 - 35yo category... how many tobacco/alcohol, use/abuse deaths would there be compared to firearm homicide deaths??

I guess it would paint a different picture, no??

Anyhow, just a thought.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
We can't forget about the most notorious serial killers in the world...

Our "governments".

They are the REAL mass murderers...

400 MILLION people were murdered by "DEATH BY GOVERNMENT".

Even the sickest serial killers have NOTHING on the state.

So true......

Our government, the biggest hypocrites ever.
A fine role model they are....[sarcasm]

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

There is NOT a high murder rate by guns in the US......

Out of a population over 315 million, according to FBI reports, in 2011, approx. 12,775 people were killed by guns by way of homicide, suicide, or killed by cops. A majority of those were due to criminal activity.

Don't believe the disinfo spewed by the MSM...

That IS high compared to other countries.

And in other countries, the level of knife crimes far outweigh gun crimes. This of course simply highlights the fact that discussions about violence should be centered around the causes of violence and not the weapons used, because the two are separate issues.

If you are trying to reduce the level of violence, you must address what is causing the violence, because taking away one weapon will just lead to people using other weapons.

Japan, however, is a country that has seen its level of violent crime grow, and knife violence has played a significant role in that increase. While crime in Japan remains relatively minimal, several gory public stabbings have led to an outcry against knife crime, which increased by 40% in 2007. Some are demanding that double edged knives, popular thanks to their use in video games, be outlawed.

www.fastcase.com...

Japan: A land without guns.

Tokyo police revealed on Thursday that someone used a knife to slash the butt of an 18 year old girl while on a Tokyo Bay cruise the night before.

japandailypress.com...

Mass killings are prevented if you ban guns though right?

7 dead in stabbing spree in downtown Tokyo after attacker drives into a crowd
A Japanese man rammed a truck into a crowd of shoppers, jumped out and went on a stabbing spree in Tokyo's top electronics district Sunday, killing at least seven people and wounding 10 others.

I guess not...

www.welt.de...

Something that should be noted however, is that in general, Japan has a crime rate that is unbelievably low. The thing though, is that by the American definition of rights, Japanese citizens have nearly none. Their confession rate is also around 95% when it comes to crimes. Although these figures could be skewed given that no Miranda rights exist, and Police can hold someone until they confess.

www.davekopel.com...

Dr. Paul Blackman of NRA/ILA points out that if gun control were really the major cause of the low Japanese crime rate, it would be impossible to explain why Japan's non-gun crime rate is so much lower than America's non-gun crime rate. America's non-gun robbery rate, for example, is 60 times Japan's.

Part of Japan's crime rates has to do with government power, a lot to do with cultural values, shame and politics within the community. Some people argue access to guns increases suicide rates, but Japan proves otherwise:

Japan's experience also indicates that gun control has almost no effect on a nation's suicide rate. While the Japanese gun suicide rate is one-fiftieth of America's, the overall
suicide rate is twice as high as America's.

American gun controllers argue that in America, more males die from suicide attempts because males are more likely to choose a gun as a suicide weapon. Yet in Japan, males are still twice
as likely to die in a suicide attempt as are females.

So Japan compared to many countries shows that they have a far lower rate of Gun crime, Knife crime, and well... Just about any crime.


So lets talk about England:

Deaths on rise as government anti-knife crime strategy fails

During the year to June 2012 there were approximately 29,613 recorded offences involving knives or other sharp instruments, accounting for 7% of selected offences, a similar proportion to previous years. The number of knife offences recorded was 9% lower than in the preceding year.

www.parliament.uk...

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint
It doesn't matter how far down the list it is, it's a lot of people. Stop trying to downplay people being murdered.

It's fine if the US has a very high gun murder rate as long as it's not the #1 killer? You're comparing intentional homicides with accidents and things we cannot control. I think your attitude towards the issue is disgusting.

edit on 6-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

There is NOT a high murder rate by guns in the US......

Out of a population over 315 million, according to FBI reports, in 2011, approx. 12,775 people were killed by guns by way of homicide, suicide, or killed by cops. A majority of those were due to criminal activity.

Don't believe the disinfo spewed by the MSM...

That IS high compared to other countries.

Even if the population was disarmed, there will still be crime [death] due to the fact that the thugs, the criminals, will ALWAYS find guns and use them. Most of the deaths are from them and their criminal activity. And it will never stop. More than likely, it would increase if the gangs knew no one except officials had guns. It would be a free for all to them and we would all be left vulnerable and defenseless.

But being as our country probably owns the most guns also, it is still a low percentage when considering the large population of people.

We need to focus more on our health issues.
They are the top killers in our country that kill millions.

But that's not my point, I'm not talking about disarming or arming the public specifically, I'm just saying how bad this attitude towards it is. It IS a high percentage, population doesn't matter, that's the point of a percentage. In regard to gun control, the US has gone too far with guns, blinded by their "freedom" fallacy and what the constitution says. It's going to get worse either way, it's too late, so it's pointless to argue.

reply to post by boncho


Well obviously other homicides will outweigh gun homicides if gun homicides rarely happen. The thing you're missing is that those other homicides are not elevated compared to the US, and therefore you don't have a point.

Originally posted by WP4YT

What's the solution?

Ban people.

Originally posted by SpearMint
Oh, that's fine then, those 12000 or so lives lost were ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not saying its ok, but going by the list provided there are bigger killers especially the top one which almost beats all the rest put together.

By the way, no one was claiming guns were the biggest killers in the USA, they are however the biggest intentional killers.

So is using your baseball bat to beat someone to a pulp. stabbing someone if you cannot get access to a gun..