Instant communication between planets theory

Stupid question......

If Gamma Rays only travel at the speed of light, how could that be used for instantaneous communications?

reply to post by Steffenfield


I have a vague rememberance of the show of which you speak.
The analogy of the tuning fork caught my attention.
If I am remembering correctly, the theory for the communications was based on generating gravity waves at a set frequency. It was assumed that only the more advanced cultures would recognise these waves and would be capable of responding to them.
The use of quantum entanglement had not, at that time, been widely put forward and would require the use of particles from a single source to be moved from one location to others in order to operate properly. This could take several years before implimentation and would almost defeat the idea of instant communications.

Originally posted by Submarines
Stupid question......

If Gamma Rays only travel at the speed of light, how could that be used for instantaneous communications?

Do they?

Check loop quantum gravity.

and please do not call something stupid because your knowledge is limited.
There is much we do not know.

reply to post by seriousskeptic


So Maybe gravitons instead of gamma rays? Gravitons play a big part in theoretical inter dimensional communication via string theory

reply to post by seriousskeptic


Stargate Universe perchance?

reply to post by Submarines


What makes you think the speed of light is an absolute universal constant? Dont Einstein-Rosen Bridges somehow allow the speed at which light flows to be influenced? What im getting at is that under certain conditions everything is more or less a probability rather than an impossibility.

reply to post by andy06shake


If I remember correctly, in the early 60's, John Wheeler found that the Einstein-Rosen Bridge would close the instant it was open before a proton could travel through it due to its instability.

Was it about Rupert Sheldrake and his "morphic fields"?

Quantum entanglement and this is the only thing i could think of...

>>
The hypothesis is that a particular form belonging to a certain group, which has already established its (collective) "morphic field", will tune into that "morphic field".

The particular form will read the collective information through the process of "morphic resonance", using it to guide its own development. This development of the particular form will then provide, again through "morphic resonance", a feedback to the "morphic field" of that group, thus strengthening it with its own experience, resulting in new information being added (i.e. stored in the database). Sheldrake regards the "morphic fields" as a universal database for both organic (genetic) and abstract (mental) forms.
>>

I remember reading this book many years ago and it was quite over my head, but simplified he was saying there is something like resonance between similar groups regardless of distance...which would also mean information transfer between similar "groups".

reply to post by Submarines


I think the properties of Einstein Rosen bridges may become a lot more pliable to our science and technology if or when we are some how able to create the much sought after exotic matter. Need to find it first i imagine, but thats what C.E.R.N. is all about. Once we have that in theory we could hold open the bridge. Now thats exciting IMHO

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by seriousskeptic

 

Stargate Universe perchance?

I am a fan of SG-U but do not recall their saying anything about gravitons and communications.
I do know some groups are working on gravity wave detectors but I would hope they are considering a means of separating their search for the possibility of various frequencies. This could be the maker for a truly advanced culture's communications.

reply to post by seriousskeptic


They use quantum entanglement devices(Stones if i remember) to communicate with people back on Earth in SG Universe. Correct me if im wrong please.

I completely agree that gravity wave detectors or even amplifiers would certainly be good method of communication for any type 1 or 2 civilization to employ. However we dont even know what Gravity is yet, we can only see what it does. Hopefully it's a wave because that means things like force field generators and matter manipulation could actually become a reality rather than a theory.

reply to post by andy06shake


I seem to recall, from among Tesla's notes, something about the generation of gravity waves by the sudden expansion and collapse of energy fields within a large capacitor. I am not certain how this would be done, but if possible it should only be a few short steps to finding a means of obtaining some set resonant frequencies.
These, I think, would be the key to unocking several doors which are now so closed to us, we are not yet aware of them.

reply to post by seriousskeptic


Tesla's was a genius eh? That Man knew a thing or two as to the way the Multiverse works. Way ahead of his time! If Tesla had had his way free electrical power would be avalible wirelessly for all. We can blame J.P Morgan and Thomas Edison for that not happening. We will get there through!

In quantum information theory, a no-communication theorem is a result which gives conditions under which instantaneous transfer of information between two observers is impossible. These results can be applied to understand the so-called paradoxes in quantum mechanics such as the EPR paradox or violations of local realism obtained in tests of Bell's theorem. In these experiments, the no-communication theorem shows that failure of local realism does not lead to what could be referred to as "spooky communication at a distance" (in analogy with Einstein's labeling of quantum entanglement as "spooky action at a distance").

Source

Originally posted by seriousskeptic
reply to post by andy06shake

 

I seem to recall, from among Tesla's notes, something about the generation of gravity waves by the sudden expansion and collapse of energy fields within a large capacitor. I am not certain how this would be done, but if possible it should only be a few short steps to finding a means of obtaining some set resonant frequencies.
These, I think, would be the key to unocking several doors which are now so closed to us, we are not yet aware of them.

Ok, basically we need to wait for LHC and CERN for a breakthrough. What is the most powerful generator of energy fields in the universe? That's right, black holes. If you manage to capture the singularities then it is just a case of "energizing" them with particles, protons or whatever and u can actually increase or decrease the gravity waves they produce, to your heart's content. Until then, we can only dream.

Since most planetary bodies have energy, quantum entanglement may work. At one time every particle that exists were very,very close together. Distance does not diminish communication. Teleportation or bilocation may be possible by changing the vibrational state of an object. A living ship (think moya) could accomplish this biologically. Dematerialize here, reappear anywhere else. No matter your location in space, you are everywhere.

Originally posted by Submarines
Stupid question......

If Gamma Rays only travel at the speed of light, how could that be used for instantaneous communications?

Not a stupid question.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by Submarines

 

What makes you think the speed of light is an absolute universal constant? Dont Einstein-Rosen Bridges somehow allow the speed at which light flows to be influenced? What im getting at is that under certain conditions everything is more or less a probability rather than an impossibility.

The word impossible should be used with the utmost caution, but submarines didn't use the word, you did.

To suggest that light can travel faster than light is illogical.

An Einstein-Rosenbridge doesn't change the speed of light, it distorts space-time. One analogy is folding a sheet of paper in half...you no longer have to travel along the paper to get from the top to the bottom, so it basically gives you a different path to follow from origin to destination, which would potentially appear to be superluminal compared to traveling the ordinary path through normal space-time (along the sheet of paper in that analogy).

Originally posted by john_bmth

In these experiments, the no-communication theorem shows that failure of local realism does not lead to what could be referred to as "spooky communication at a distance" (in analogy with Einstein's labeling of quantum entanglement as "spooky action at a distance").

So, in summary:
-Spooky action at a distance: proven
-Spooky communication at a distance: unproven

Originally posted by Steffenfield
reply to post by Dispo

 

I don't believe that quantum entanglement was his proposal at the time. Remember, this was at least 15 years ago.

If you're implying that quantum entanglement wasn't known 15 years ago, you should re-check that assumption. If that's not what you're implying, I don't understand your comment "this was at least 15 years ago."

All of these numbers and formulas were packed in together so tightly, it almost looked like the work of someone who went insane.

From what you have described, this may be a case where it's what it looked like. Quantum entanglement's spooky action at a distance has been demonstrated as faster than light. There are a few other exceptions to the speed of light rule but none of them seem to apply to what you describe.

Faster-than-light observations and experiments

There are situations in which it may seem that matter, energy, or information travels at speeds greater than c, but they do not.

In other words, things other than matter, energy, or information may exceed the speed of light in the situations described following that quote, but no FTL communication has been demonstrated, 15 years ago, or since.

It's a very interesting concept, well I believe eventually will lead to real possibilities.

FTL (Faster Than Light) communications, it is I think most famously mentioned in the Mass Effect 2 video game.

Didn't get a chance to go through the entire thread, so not sure if anyone has mentioned this already. In Mass Effect 2, there is this hardware called Quantum Entanglement Communication Device.

Quantum Entanglement is real science.

For what it's worth, Quantum Entanglement Communication works this way in the game:

A single photon particle gets split into two. After it is split into two halves of a whole, scientists noticed there is an unusual relationship that exist between the two halves. They could not explain this relationship. Einstein called this unusual relationship "spooky action at a distance".

In laymen terms, the photon particle split into two, basically shares the same existence. You could leave half of the particle on Earth, the other half in another distant Galaxy. Whatever happens to one of the pairs, the opposite effect would take place"instantaneously" to the other half. If one half goes up, then other half moves down. If one moves slightly to the left, then the other on the far side of another Galaxy moves slightly to the right, completely disregarding any "distance" in between.

This in turn, creates what is called "Quantum Bits". Similar to a computer's binary language of 0's and 1's. For Quantum Bits, it's essentially the same concept.

So this is how FTL communication works in fiction

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by dorkfish87
Well you could always send information through light.

Encode information directly onto photons


physicsworld.com...

Quantum entanglement insinuates communication that is faster than light, aka instantaneous. It's almost as if physical objects that are quantum entangled with other objects are connected within another dimension since their subatomic particles have interacted in a way that makes them behave in opposition to each other regardless of the physical distance separating them.

Originally posted by Dispo
I'm not entirely sure it's what you're thinking of, but quantum entanglement is the most promising concept for FTL communication at present.

Basically, in any two particles which have interacted physically and been separated in such a way that they're still connected, changing a property of one will have the opposite effect on the other.

So say I had an electron on earth which was paired with an electron on Zeeblebrox-40, and my electron had a clockwise spin and yours had an anti-clockwise spin, if I changed my spin, yours would change too!

It would be possible to transmit binary messages in this way using a large number of entangled pairs, instantaneously, over any distance.

en.wikipedia.org...

False. You could theoretically transmit data, with no way to decode that data, thus you haven't actually sent anything. As of now, entanglement, theoretically even, has zero chance to be used to send messages.

Why does quantum entanglement not allow ftl communication

Originally posted by dorkfish87
Well you could always send information through light.

Encode information directly onto photons


physicsworld.com...

Yes. So a planet 10 light years away (cloest known habitable planet is 12lya) would only need 20 years to send a message and get a reply. So that method is near useless.