Rare Find (hee-hee)

Here's a little ditty from the world of archaeology. Scientist have found the lost toilet of the famous Martin Luther. Kinda' interesting, kinda' funny. My favorite quote from the article: "We still don't know what they used for wiping in those days." - Dr. Martin Treu.

Check it out at: Constipated Cleric

Peace.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Der Kapitan]

Three popular choices for "bum fodder" have been

(a) leaves
especially broadleaf varieties. Just make sure it's not poison ivy! The problem is that people pick all of the ones around the latrine. And in winter, when there is no foliage, you move on to choice b:

(b) snow/sand
snow works better than you think it would, kind of the inspiration for the moist towelette. But the problem is of course, hypothermia. Sand is the choice in warmer climates. I remember talking w/ a fellow in Egypt about radical islam. As a city dweller, he attributed fanatical excess to wiping with sand. I think there may be something to this, when you consider the circumstance of Martin Luther's "radical" interpretation of the epistle to the Romans.

(3) industrial waste
No, seriously. As industry developed, the workers used whatever by-products were handy. Clothworkers in Ghent in the middle ages probably used wool that was dirty or of unacceptable quality for weaving. The linen industry used to produce a lot of fibrous pith that had been softened by being worked through a "mangle," which broke up the pith to release the linen. Pith was soft enough, it just couldn't be used for clothmaking.

Working on farms during wheat harvest, I have used straw. If used lengthwise, it can be done. The problem is risidual itching. Same w/ cotton.

I suspect that paper caught on in Italy and North Germany, and the printing revolution spread across those lands. A printing press produces literally tons of mistakes, so there'd be plenty of "waste paper."

I was unaware of some of those choices. I think I'd try snow or sand before I'd try the waste, though! Yeeoww.

What proof is there that they wiped? They could just let it out and go on with their buisness! Remember they only took baths like once a month or so.

What proof is there that they wiped? They could just let it out and go on with their buisness! Remember they only took baths like once a month or so.

Smell a conspiracy, eh? You do make a good point, though. At what point did someone think, "Maybe I should clean up a little."

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Der Kapitan]

I recall reading/hearing that the Romans used sponges on sticks. I assume that this was the upper class tho, but I think that they were also used in public latrines/toilets. Sounds 'advanced' I suppose, until you realize that they weren't necessarily disposable. Yuck.

Humans everywhere wipe. The fact that the buns touch each other makes it a necessity, or else you're driven crazy by dingle-berries.

Most castles, etc have a little box where some kind of material was obviously kept. No one has ever found a full box, I guess because the last person used it and didn't replace it!

Incidentally, the left hand is used for wiping in muslim countries. Never touch people or food with your left hand!

I still can't believe that we here in America haven't caught on to the regular use of bidets....(sp?) At least we've adapted the moist towlette option...

Originally posted by hatchedcross
What proof is there that they wiped? They could just let it out and go on with their buisness! Remember they only took baths like once a month or so.

Hahaha!
The flies must've had a field day, at least everyone was in the same boat.

I had heard that the whole concept of the spring cleaning started way back. And not only the household was cleansed, but that's when people then bathed as well. Whew!

You guys don't know how to use the three seashells?!

I always wondered how that one worked...

Originally posted by Nygdan
I recall reading/hearing that the Romans used sponges on sticks. I assume that this was the upper class tho, but I think that they were also used in public latrines/toilets. Sounds 'advanced' I suppose, until you realize that they weren't necessarily disposable. Yuck.

*shudders* That must have been the cause of a few practical jokes back in the day...lol...maybe they sent their dirty sponges to leppers for dry cleaning...

I think the real question here is, do you wad or fold?!

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Incidentally, the left hand is used for wiping in muslim countries. Never touch people or food with your left hand!

I've heard this before, and some variations on it. For example, I've heard it as being something hindus in india do. I 've also heard it as somethign that only the turks in the east of turkey do. I have to wonder at it. I suspect, especially since its alternately muslims or hindus, that its somethign of an urban myth. I find it especially hard to beleive that muslims do this, as they are rather obsessive about cleaning after using the bathroom, to the point that many of them take showers afterwards. I find it hard to beleive that they'd be touching their own filth. I had asked a pakistani friend about this bathing, I said, what do they do with public toilets in pakistan. Apparently they use bedays. An indian friend of mine also confirms that people in india don't do this left hand business.
I suspect that what happened is that a western tourist (or western tourists in general) visit these countries, and see that there isn't paper in the public bathrooms, never suspecting that bedays are used (or perhaps that people bring their own paper) and don't know what else to think.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from a muslim that they actually do this before I beleive it. Its just so revolting.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Incidentally, the left hand is used for wiping in muslim countries. Never touch people or food with your left hand!

I've heard this before, and some variations on it. For example, I've heard it as being something hindus in india do. I 've also heard it as somethign that only the turks in the east of turkey do. I have to wonder at it. I suspect, especially since its alternately muslims or hindus, that its somethign of an urban myth.

I realize that my own experiences in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and with my wife's culture and upbringing will not satisfy anyone at ATS. Let's what I can google for y'all.

From this website about Saudi Arabia:
www.cyborlink.com...

The left hand is considered unclean and reserved for hygiene avoid gestures with the right hand. Do not point at another person and do not eat with the left hand.


From this site about Indonesian culture:
www.cyborlink.com...

Only use your right hand for eating, when touching someone, or handling money/papers.


Here is a writer about global business describing his own experience at a formal dinner where he was the guest of honor www.peterursbender.com...

I well remember the collective gasp when I reached for a piece of fruit with my hand - my left hand. In Muslim countries generally the left hand is regarded as unclean. It is taboo to use it for meals, or really for anything else, such as extending it to give or receive a gift, or touching another person, unless it is impossible to avoid. This applies even if you are left-handed.


And finally, this site, which quotes the Hadith (recieved traditions of Mohammed's sayings): www.islamicawakening.com...

1 � Eating with the right hand.

It is obligatory for the Muslim to eat with his right hand; he should not eat with his left hand. It was narrated from Ibn �Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �No one among you should eat with his left hand, or drink with it, for the Shaytaan eats with his left hand and drinks with it.� (Narrated by Muslim, 2020).

This applies so long as there is no excuse; if a person has an excuse for not eating and drinking with his right hand, such as sickness or injury etc., then there is nothing wrong with his eating with his left hand.

The hadeeth indicates that a person should avoid doing actions that resemble the actions of the Shaytaan.

P.S.
Not that they wipe with THE HAND ITSELF, Nygdan. Muslims are fastidious, and don't want to even see the hand that held the paper! No, one must wash one's hands like a doctor in the restroom. They are horrified (as am I) by american men who don't wash in american restrooms, after touching the 'furnature.'



[edit on 22-10-2004 by dr_strangecraft]

I see the thread has moved to 'chit chat'. I rather wish it hadn't, or at least hadn't until it was shown that muslims in fact don't do this. I suspect that people say that they do this to denigrate them. Its somewhat ironic too, because the rumor appeals to the same horror muslims and hindus feel torwards filth.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I realize that my own experiences in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and with my wife's culture and upbringing will not satisfy anyone at ATS.

That would actually satisfy me, I have no reason to think you will lie about it.

The left hand is considered unclean and reserved for hygiene avoid gestures with the right hand. Do not point at another person and do not eat with the left hand.

Even in hindu countries when there is an obessison with cleanliness they do this.

if a person has an excuse for not eating and drinking with his right hand, such as sickness or injury etc., then there is nothing wrong with his eating with his left hand.

'Lefthandedness' in general is considered a 'bad trait'. Look at the latin word for it. Those sinister left handed bastards!

Not that they wipe with THE HAND ITSELF

Ah, good, someone with experience in the culture is able to confirm that they obviously don't do this. That is exactly what people have been saying they do. Anyone even moderately familiar with muslims would find this extraordinarily hard to beleive.

They are horrified (as am I) by american men who don't wash in american restrooms, after touching the 'furnature.'

Yeah, its pretty disgusting. You want to yell at them 'don't you know what anal to oral transmission actually means! '



[edit on 22-10-2004 by dr_strangecraft]

I gotta say this quirky little article I posted really went in unexpected directions. I've learned a little where I thought i wouldn't. I also am surprised that an article concerning archaeology was stuck on BTS. But there you have it. It got bumped before any eastern culture things were discussed , though.

ah, well that would make sense then.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Most castles, etc have a little box where some kind of material was obviously kept. No one has ever found a full box, I guess because the last person used it and didn't replace it!

Actually, Castle toilets were merely holes in the floor usually overhanging the moat. Occasionally there was a 'seat' provided. Good King Edward would place the Royal posterior upon a cold wooden plank and with a cry of 'Merde' (British Medaeval kings were descended from the French after all) would into the moat.

This is the one in Skipton Castle (If anyone is really interested )



hcs.osu.edu...

[Edited on 25-10-2004 by Pisky]

One way to infiltrate a castle was to climb up the privy shaft to gain access. I always thought a miss-timed assault would make a few icky, smelly soldiers.

sort of the "shawshank redemption" in reverse!

If I remember right, Cheapstowe castle had stone seats??? I remember theirs dropped into the tidewater river, which would be even harder to navigate up and into the castle.

So, how did they prove the chamber belonged to Martin Luther, as opposed to, say, his servants or something?

Anyway, this whole thread is sort of, well, unseemly

"It's kind of nutty"

I think the property on which the "can" was found was known to be associated with Martin Luther. I liked the fact that he kept a "log" if you will- of his bathroom habits and "progress." WTF is that about?