How long would it take to communicate with a planet 40 light years away?

If we work on today's standard that light travels at 700 million miles per hour (700 x 10 to the power of 6) then as of today it would be 700,000,000 x 24 x 365 x 80 or 245.280 x 10 to the power of 12. An awfully long time. However History is the future of tomorrow - in other words progress is being made all of the time and in the bigger picture this could become significantly less as quantum physics push the boundaries!

About 20 mins?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by firefly9000

 

Quantum Entanglement is far beyond our capabilities as far as using it as a way to communicate.
Split Infinity

No it is not. It has been done. Only over a distance of kilometres. But the technology will boom soon...

Originally posted by Ansar
reply to post by firefly9000

 

Hi firefly9000!

Since ... the (amazing) question was...

>How long would it take to communicate with a planet 40 light years away?

...my impression was that he/she wanted to know what is technical possible right NOW.
If you know of a possible method to harvest these qualities of the quantum realm right NOW please tell.
The world will be listening...

Godspeed

Ansar

Noo. Go back and read again..As usual, reading a post and understanding
befor reply, i suppose isnt demanded...
He asked "Whatever Medium"...
I count QM as a possible medium...

reply to post by Miccey


Hi Miccey!

As you commanded - I did go back Sir - yesss Sir!
And I read it again...

And what were my eyes to behold?
This...

>The question would be: if they are too far to visit or explore with current technology, could we communicate with them?

The catch-phrase for me in this sentence - considering it to be "the soul", "the heart", The ESSENCE of the whole OP was...

>current technology

But maybe thats only because I'm not a native - or should I better say naive - English speaker?
What would be the correct word in this context?
Please help me out here...
...Miccey??

You may as well count "QM" - whatever that means - as a possible medium...
...some time in the future...
as I said in my above post - whenever some scientists come up with such a thing.
YOU could be the first one to come up with such a "QM" device.
THAT would be GREAT!

One thing at last.
Your wording...

>As usual, reading a post and understanding befor reply, i suppose isnt demanded...
(By the way MY spell-checker has 2 little red lines in this short sentence - didn't your's?)

...got me quite confused. Me thinks understanding BEFORE replying SHOULD very well be demanded.
Is it really the other way round around in your part of the woods?

Then again replying after (hopefully) understanding a question could only be an eccentric habit that I took up over the years.
Don't bother about it - maybe I SHOULD spend some time in your part of the world.
Should be quite exiting there with all that speculation...

Rock On!

Ansar

reply to post by amazing


40 light years puts them in the range of our wonderful television broadcasts among others somit is remotely plausible we may in some way be communicating with a planet this range

reply to post by purplemer


Perhaps I am out of date but I don't think entanglement allows foe FTL communication, why?
Here is some discussionon that

Originally posted by amazing
How long would it take to communicate with a planet 40 light years away? We've found planets in the habitable zones of many different systems that could harbor intelligent life. The question would be: if they are too far to visit or explore with current technology, could we communicate with them? Radio, laser...whatever the medium, is this something that is possible and how long would it take to transmit and receive a communication?

As a radio light travels at the speed of light, thus, 40 light-years says it all: 40 years, at the speed of light. If you expect an answer, you'll have to wait 80 years.

Via a portal communication should have 10 times less lag time than the CNN news room communicating with a reporter in a foreign land like China.


almost real-time.

reply to post by firefly9000


Actually, from what I understand, for quantum entanglement to exist between two particles, those particles would have to be created at the same time in the same place.

So, communicating using quantum entanglement would be near impossible and take much longer than 40 years (initially) because we would first have to make both particles on Earth, then send one of the particles 40 light years to the place that we need to communicate with. Even if we could send the particle at the speed of light it would take 40 years to get the particle there, but we can't send the particle at the speed of light, we don't have that ability. So it would probably take 100s or 1000s of years to even set up communications that way.

Although it would take a very long time to set up communication via quantum entanglement, I agree that once the communication is set up it would be ALMOST instant. I say almost because even if the particles move instantly, there is going to be a delay encoding and decoding the particle movement into human understandable communication. Maybe a few milliseconds delay.

I think radio/light communication is best in this case, but of course there would be an 80 year delay round trip, not including the few milliseconds it takes to decode the messages.

Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by firefly9000

 

Actually, from what I understand, for quantum entanglement to exist between two particles, those particles would have to be created at the same time in the same place.

So, communicating using quantum entanglement would be near impossible and take much longer than 40 years (initially) because we would first have to make both particles on Earth, then send one of the particles 40 light years to the place that we need to communicate with. Even if we could send the particle at the speed of light it would take 40 years to get the particle there, but we can't send the particle at the speed of light, we don't have that ability. So it would probably take 100s or 1000s of years to even set up communications that way.

So, it would take a very long time to set up communication via quantum entanglement. However, I agree that once the communication is set up it would be ALMOST instant. I say almost because even if the particles move instantly, there is going to be a delay translating the particle movement into human understandable communication. Maybe a few milliseconds delay.

I think radio/light communication is best in this case, but of course there would be an 80 year delay round trip.

edit on 19-11-2012 by illuminated0ne because: (no reason given)

The above is correct you have to create the entanglement in the same place, then we would have to send one of the particles to its destination which would take the normal time ... once its set up though we should be good after the initial wait..

however we are a long way from this level of entanglement as it has only been used over short distances (in space terms)

nvm.wrong thread. sorry.

reply to post by iforget


I am no expert either.. This might help though...

Since 1997, researchers have been able to quantum teleport photons with a major record being set by researchers at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai. In 2010, that team successfully teleported a photon over 16km. Now that same team has released new findings, in which they claim to have teleported photons nearly 100km, or over 60 miles.

www.forbes.com...

reply to post by firefly9000


Yes, but so far a strange quantum mechanical result prevents this theoretical method from being used. One cannot observe the super position of and atom directly. The mere act of attempting to measure it's super position causes it to change. The state you speak of is called Quantum Entanglement. It is suggested to exist by mathematics but since direct measurements cannot be made without altering the outcome we cannot yet use it to send binary information instantly across the universe.

Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by firefly9000

 

Actually, from what I understand, for quantum entanglement to exist between two particles, those particles would have to be created at the same time in the same place.

So, communicating using quantum entanglement would be near impossible and take much longer than 40 years (initially) because we would first have to make both particles on Earth, then send one of the particles 40 light years to the place that we need to communicate with. Even if we could send the particle at the speed of light it would take 40 years to get the particle there, but we can't send the particle at the speed of light, we don't have that ability. So it would probably take 100s or 1000s of years to even set up communications that way.

Although it would take a very long time to set up communication via quantum entanglement, I agree that once the communication is set up it would be ALMOST instant. I say almost because even if the particles move instantly, there is going to be a delay encoding and decoding the particle movement into human understandable communication. Maybe a few milliseconds delay.

I think radio/light communication is best in this case, but of course there would be an 80 year delay round trip, not including the few milliseconds it takes to decode the messages.

edit on 19-11-2012 by illuminated0ne because: made a few additions

reply to post by Fiberx


reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel


Apologies for putting ALL replies into one but they all relate.

Once again, you guys are thinking of what is happening RIGHT NOW and not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, right now, at this very minute, we would need to move the entangled part to the other location for communication. But this is extremely shortsighted as ALL MATERIAL in the universe is CONNECTED

Going back to my earlier analogy it's like saying: "how will flying a couple of feet in a wood and cloth kite with an engine help get me across the Atlantic". It doesn't - but fast forward a few years as stated and we get to the MOON.

Yes, we're at the crawling stage now... But would you look at a baby struggling to get on his feet and walk for months and months and say: "Naaahhhhh, he'll never get the hang of it and walk"??

And to answer another poster's claim - YES information can get processed through entanglement. The posts you've linked to were by students in 2008 - the major consensus has developed MUCH since then.

I think Brian explains it all beautifully - take a listen. Any change made in a part of the Universe affects the whole Universe instantly.



In my opinion, the advances in communication will coincide with advances in quantum computing - which is already starting to take shape.

This is just a speculation, albeit one based on how history repeats itself: By focusing our collective attention on the quantum world, the progress made will be in leaps and bounds rather than baby steps. Just look at how much computing has advanced in 2 decades.

PS: Maybe some of you kind chaps can help me out: How the heck do I add a photo image of some kind to my avatar? It's such a pain to distinguish my replies on the page... Many thanks .

How long would it take to communicate with a planet 40 light years away? You mean right now? In the future? By us? By "them"?

Well, that's kind of an unanswerable question since there are so many variables that are unknown. As others here have pointed out, the obvious conclusion would be that the communication would take 40 years each way at the speed of light.

But that's not what you're after, is it?

More primitive? Well, assuming we needed to communicate in writing we're talking roughly 469,255,680,000,000 miles round trip, so if we carry the message there and back, at say, 50,000 mph, it will take us about 9,385,113,600 hours or ~1,071,360 years to carry our greeting card there and bring it's equivalent reply back to Earth.

Can't wait that long? You can go with the Einstein postulates above - some may be credible. But we really don;t know if such a thing is possible in practice.

My hypothesis? A hybrid method that takes advantage of space-time accelerators and technologies we have no conceptual awareness of at the moment. For some reason, the instantaneous thing bugs me but I can't put a finger on what the trouble would be. My guess is that advanced civilizations MUST periodically communicate with their superiors on their home worlds and that it likely takes a tremendous amount of energy and engineering to accomplish. Once perfected and implemented, the technique, I think, would take something on the order of several hours to several days to pull off.

Just a guess, I know. So - simple Earthlings like us would need about 80 years at our current state of 'evolution', while advanced beings may need only hours.

But really: Who the heck knows?

It's like some tiny krill wondering how it suddenly got dark as he and a million of his pals just got sucked into the gaping gut of a whale. G'night...!

We humans have got a long way to go before we'll be able to answer your question with any certainty.

reply to post by firefly9000


....um ok then. I don't think the OP was asking about science fiction. If that was the case then we could make up any answer in the world...

For example, I can claim that in the future we will have instantaneous time travel machines. We can go back in time 40 years, send a radio signal to a planet 40 light years away, then go forward 80 years in time to receive the reply of the message from the planet instantaneously without ever having to wait 80 years.

Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by firefly9000

 

....um ok then. I don't think the OP was asking about science fiction. If that was the case then we could make up any answer in the world...

For example, I can claim that in the future we will have instantaneous time travel machines. We can go back in time 40 years, send a radio signal to a planet 40 light years away, then go forward 80 years in time to receive the reply of the message from the planet instantaneously without ever having to wait 80 years.

LOL ... These technologies are being worked on as we speak - albeit they're just in the very, VERY early stages.. but taking into account the proposed method so far would take about 80 years to get a "Yep, we're here" from the aliens... then ANOTHER 80 to start a conversation... then 80 years for each reply - I think we do need another form of communication to get results.

Your point is that this isn't RIGHT NOW! The problem with your reasoning is that it still lets 80 years pass... so it's NOT like you're providing an 'instant' solution anyway.

Would you agree that interstellar communication is a challenging task to accomplish competently? I would hope so...

Once you agree with that, take a look at how we successfully solved other such seemingly insurmountable problems. For example, we didn't go to the Moon by using better planes. We developed something more suited to the task: rockets (which were around but used for other purposes) and space modules.

We DEVELOPED TECHNOLOGY FOR THE PROBLEM... NOT the other way around, force the problem to bend to our current technology.

My point being that when you tackle such a big problem the last thing you want to do is 'shoot first and ask questions later'... as in let's send out a message using only technology we know (why bother looking into other options when doing such a herculean task)... and wait 80 years to see if it will work. This doesn't seem smart to me.

You might want to invest 20 years into funded research before wasting 80. Obviously I assumed the OP meant this question as in a humanity, or at least USA driven project that's well funded and staffed so it can get results. If we're talking about Joe Schmoe contacting aliens then that's a different story.

I am not sure why you'd assume that such a massive project would not undergo a development phase, like other such projects? It would be like being back in the 60's when Kennedy set the goal of going to the Moon and then blindly focusing only on planes to get us there... because only planes were used to carry people up until then.

You basically eradicate the development stage of such project and put it under 'fiction'. What great technological feat in the last 100 years was done with NO DEVELOPMENT stage? Did we develop what would become the atomic bomb by blindly trying to force more TNT into the bomb?

I think I understand your reasoning - you just want to feel like you've thrown the bottle with the message in the ocean TODAY and get that instant gratification

I guess that's one way to do it - not the best way to get results in my opinion but to each his own.

Originally posted by Ansar
reply to post by Miccey

 

Hi Miccey!

As you commanded - I did go back Sir - yesss Sir!
And I read it again...

And what were my eyes to behold?
This...

>The question would be: if they are too far to visit or explore with current technology, could we communicate with them?

The catch-phrase for me in this sentence - considering it to be "the soul", "the heart", The ESSENCE of the whole OP was...

>current technology

But maybe thats only because I'm not a native - or should I better say naive - English speaker?
What would be the correct word in this context?
Please help me out here...
...Miccey??

You may as well count "QM" - whatever that means - as a possible medium...
...some time in the future...
as I said in my above post - whenever some scientists come up with such a thing.
YOU could be the first one to come up with such a "QM" device.
THAT would be GREAT!

One thing at last.
Your wording...

>As usual, reading a post and understanding befor reply, i suppose isnt demanded...
(By the way MY spell-checker has 2 little red lines in this short sentence - didn't your's?)

...got me quite confused. Me thinks understanding BEFORE replying SHOULD very well be demanded.
Is it really the other way round around in your part of the woods?

Then again replying after (hopefully) understanding a question could only be an eccentric habit that I took up over the years.
Don't bother about it - maybe I SHOULD spend some time in your part of the world.
Should be quite exiting there with all that speculation...

Rock On!

Ansar

NOO again: IN BOLDThe question would be: if they are too far to visit or explore with current technology...
DOESNT say anything about COMMUNICATION WITH CURRENT TECH...Only to VISIT adition OR EXPLORE..See...
Read, Understand THEN reply...
And QM as you asked about would be QUANTUM MECHANICS

Originally posted by R_Clark
Read on prof. Fran de Aquino, about gravity waves....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

so, if you are using advanced wave tech... it is instantaneous..

Only if you throw out General Relativity.

Gravity waves propagate at the speed of light.

Communication with another system 40LY away is likely impossible due to attenuation in the waves.

Perhaps a pulsing laser, but absolutely not radio.

Harte