Asking for a new gun for X-Mas, thoughts?

Hello ATS!

This upcoming holiday season, I have decided to add an additional weapon to my woefully inadequate inventory. Currently, I own a an Henry AR-7 (.22 survival rifle)

What I am looking for is something with a little more punch and not weighing me down or breaking the bank. I'd like to be able to better protect myself, and possibly hunt for food.

Right now I'm torn between an AR-15 Bushmaster and a Mossburg 500 12g.

Now, I've heard on forums that you can't take down a bull moose with an AR-15, and I doubt I could take down a moose with a shotgun either! In fact, I doubt you could use a 12g for anything but small game w/birdshot.

The advantage with the shotgun is that I can use slugs and protect myself against brown and grizzly bears. I'm not sure the AR-15 would be good for bear protection.

I like this Mossburg "Chainsaw":


I'm also looking into this Bushmaster Carbon AR-15 in the .223 or "NATO" round, with red dot scope:


Both of those weapons are less than 8 pounds (minus ammunition), and cost less than $800 new.

Are there other options that meet my requirements?

1. Under 8 pounds
2. Under $800
3. Possibility for hunting game and personal/bear protection

I can't pack around on my back 3+ guns along with all of my other gear. I'd ideally like to keep my load-out less than 60 lbs. I've done a good job cutting weight here and there with my other gear.

I also want to keep in mind the availability of ammunition. Hence why a 12g shotgun and the .223 are on my Christmas list.

I'd appreciate any advice more experienced gun owners have to offer!

I'm a pretty damn good shot w/my Henry AR-7 @ 50 yards. My groups with the fixed iron sites are within 4". I'm pretty sure I could kill a grouse, ptarmigan, or rabbit with it.

I like the Mossberg, the marine version has a special anti corrosive coating so you can take it sailing with you.

Mossberg 500 Mariner

If I might make a suggestion, if you can find one. The CX-4 Beretta Storm is the finest small weapon of it's kind that I've ever owned. It's highly accurate, has almost NO recoil whatsoever and takes standard magazines from the Beretta 92 family or Military M-9. It makes gun shows a cheap place to grab surplus magazines people are dumping now.





It's light, simple to tear down as the above pic shows (That is all there is...basically 3 core pieces and it all comes down from one pin you can pop with your pinky finger. No tools required for any stage)

9mm is also one of the most common ammunition types around, the way I see it. So...If SHTF, it'll be one caliber it should be easy enough to forage for and pick up as it's found. Just thinking ahead on that.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I have that same Bushy in my gun vault. You won't be disappointed.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I myself will never buy a Bushmaster ever again. Plus the majority of people I know who have one aren't to pleased either.

Lot's of broken parts and mine only liked the highest priced ammo. It did not like bulk NATO ammo whatsoever.

The shotgun seems to be a safe bet.

If you want a quality firearm, $800.00 may get you a used one. But you may have to go a bit higher in price if you want a new one.

reply to post by kawika


Thanks for the tip -- Mossburg makes these 500-series guns sealed in a tube:

500 J.I.C. (Just In Case) Mariner Cruiser Kit, Pistol Grip– Six-round capacity, 18-1/2" barrel, bead front sight, Marinecote finish and black synthetic stock. Comes in a floating synthetic tube with a shoulder strap. Tube also contains a knife and multitool. Tube’s heavy-duty synthetic seal is factory tested to be airtight and waterproof to a minimum of 17 psi or 40-ft. when properly installed. Contents packaged in heavy-duty resealable bag.

Is that maybe what you were thinking?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Ah...

The Battlestar Galactica gun, bull-pup design. Star to you my friend. (I'm a huge BSG fan).

I have considered these, but they shoot handgun rounds. If I'm lucky, I may inherit a .40 S&W -- which would be awesome because both carbine and side arm could share rounds.

I've heard they are fun to shoot -- but like I said, they shoot handgun rounds, not rifle rounds

If I had unlimited money, I'd buy a PS-90:


That round bridges the gap between handgun and rifle rounds.

I may consider the CX-series, as they are cheaper than an AR-15, and do have the bull-pup design.

A nice .30-06

Good for big game.
Packs a big punch.
Inexpensive.
Ammo can be purchased anywhere for a more than reasonable price.

Shoot a bear with a 12 gauge and all you will have is one angry bear. Oh, and don't waste your money on bear bangers either.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Thanks!

I think a shotgun is probably a safe-bet for something under $800.

My father has a Mossburg 500 12g, pistol grip, 18.5 barrel and heat shield. He's more "raw" than I am at his age of 65 vs my 29. He never uses it, he complains it "weighs to much". We bought it for him for bear protection up here in Alaska.

I told him, "Fine, then you need a chest rig with a .45 ACP for bears to keep Mom feeling safe"

He's not a "gun guy" at all. In fact, in time -- I just might end up with his never-used shotgun.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


That sounds like a great choice!

I had forgotten about that survival package. Mine is more a standard 500 but just has the short barrel, big magazine and special anti rust coating. It came with a pistol grip but I never installed it. More used to a conventional configuration.

K

Gun:
Nerf-N-Strike Hail Fire $39.99

Ammunition:
75 Darts $19.99

reply to post by Catacomb


That one could not possibly be legal....

I like the blue and orange colors,


would make the bad guys think it is a toy

reply to post by TFCJay


I've seen the damage done with hollow point 12g slugs at fairly close range (20-30 ft)

I don't think you'd end up with a pissed off bear.

Up here, most bear encounters are at ranges less than 40 feet. You could unload 6 slugs into the bear's center mass in less than 20 seconds, and then pull out the spray, or a taser...

Apparently, up here, bears don't do well with those taser guns that shoot probes.

We've been told here not to "tase the bears"

The statement comes after police Lt. Dave Parker used a Taser on July 22 to discourage a black bear lured to a fish fryer at Parker's Hillside home. When the incident was publicized the next day, it stirred up strong reaction pro and con.

Oh, and it gets better...

"I didn't want to launch a round out there, and I didn't want to leave him near my parents because he had already been on the second-floor deck and already been in people's houses," Parker said Monday.

After being hit with 100,000 volts, the bear "inverted," with its feet in the air, and rolled off the porch before running off, by Parker's account. An animal that police think was the same bear was shot and killed by another homeowner the next day after apparently trying to get inside a house.

News Article

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Since you are in Alaska, I would do a lot of research into the Polymer/plastic hardware that many weapons have nowadays.

When I was in the Army, I witnessed plenty of M16's break the stocks/handguards/pistolgrips due to being frozen.

It didn't take much.

I'm looking to buy a Kel-Tec RFB, but the composite part of it has me worried while taking it out in the winter.

I do like the PS-90 in 5.7, coupled with a Five-seveN pistol, and you may be able to take out a charging bear. That's a lot of rounds in just two weapons.

I'm not to sure I would hunt with them though. You'd pretty much have to take a head shot for anything cougar or larger.

I just had a thought:

Aren't shotgun shells easier to re-load than rifle and handgun cartridges?

I've never done reloading, but I'd imagine it would be?

reply to post by TDawgRex


I hear you on the polymer cracking and breaking. I'll ask around up here at some of the local gun stores. I feel odd going into them, however, as they seem very "militia" oriented.

I'm more of a hiker, backpacker and REI/EMS shopper. I scored a sweet Arc'Tyerx Bora 80 pack because it was in "short size" -- and it's my BOB of choice:


If I had the cash, I agree having the PS-90 and accompanying side arm would be a great package. I think the bullets would just go straight through a bear, so little to no "stopping power".

Traditionally up here, people use 12g slugs, .45 ACP or a "Desert Eagle .50" for bear protection. I can't really afford the later two.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

I didn't realize you were in Alaska. Oh... Yeah, the Storm wouldn't be my first suggestion then for the same point Tdawg mentions. The entire thing is polymer and might not be the most friendly in extreme and changing temps the way you would have to have reliability with. Hmm...I never had it happen in any way, but I could see how the expansion/contraction could make the action tight or even bind? I sure wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

Ditto on your need for more than 9mm. Yeah, I can see where that would have real limits in that area.

On reloading...I do for my handgun and rifle calibers. I don't on shotguns because it's a whole new set up for equipment as well as the material...with a major pain to add to it. Lead isn't cheap like one might think. I didn't see where I'd have saved anything by the amount I actually shoot 12g. Maybe you'd find differently?

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Yup, Shot shells are easy. Some crimp shut better than others. THe paper ones are great, plastic ones tend to pop back open.

I used to shoot trap at a local club when I was about 14. There was this old guy Lloyd, he used to reload the shells for us and sell them to us for $1 in an old bread bag.

Sometimes he would forget the step where he puts in the powder. SOmetimes he would put the powder in twice. So with one defect the wad gets stuck halfway down the barrel and with the other it takes your shoulder off when you fire.

THe 70's were so great...

Tc Encore gives you plenty of options with different calibers and or shotgun barrels. Accurate as all get out and interchangable. The only downfall is it's a single shot. Their newer version is the demension which offers mutiple calibers and a clip for faster reload. It's a bolt action. The clip, bolt and barrel interchange for different calibers. But with this one there is no shotgun barrel

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


My good buddy has a Glock 19, and he has kept it in his trunk down to -20F overnight (conservatively). He claims its never cracked.

I argued with him that he didn't try and fire it at those temps.

I've shot my .22 AR-7 in temps in the low 20's with no issue using CCI Mini Mags. I had no misfires or jamming.

So I guess I'm asking "for it all" for under $800. It's probably not doable.

I'm leaning to that shotgun in my OP -- It looks "mean" and might make a bad guy think twice. I'd rather intimidate than ever fire my weapon.

I can also use it for black/brown bear protection. The sheer number of "specialty" rounds available is tempting. I had no idea that they made flare rounds for shotguns!

I do, however, need a good carbine rifle. I want to travel fast and light, but also be protected!