Eugenics through the back door

So, the Tory toffs have announced a new policy, that restricts the amount of child benefit new claimants will be able to make, in effect limiting the amount of children they want the poor to have.

Child-related benefits for families may be capped at two children, the work and pensions secretary has said.

Iain Duncan Smith said stopping the current system, where families get more benefits the more children they have, was part of changes being considered.

Source: www.bbc.co.uk...

There are various issues that spring to mind, firstly this is yet another case of the government penny pinching from the poor to cover the deficit the rich created. Another group of vulnerable people who will have to go without so the dark lords who reign can have one extra ivory back scratcher.

But the most important issue here is he is effectively imposing a limit on the number of children poor people have. How despicable can you get? This is eugenics through the back door. This is a very dangerous slope we are on, and sooner or later we will have a child policy similar to China's.

And yes I am aware of families who are allegedly abusing the system with 20 children, but they are not the norm, they are the exception which is being cited to create divisions and sway opinion. Living on benefits is not easy street like these idiots would have you believe.

Every day these evil people abusing their power find another vulnerable group to screw over. When will enough be enough? When will people wake up and overthrow these vile beasts? I am sick of their systematic rape and plunder of this country. I guess they can't do it around the world to the extent they used to, so we are their only remaining targets.

This doesn't appear to say people can't have a brood of children, they just can't expect the state to pay for more than 2 to a home as I'm reading it? How is the state limiting it's handing the money out for their support the equivalent to the downright brutal policy of China's One-Child approach? Is there something beyond simply stopping additional benefits at the second child which I'm missing? I'm curious if there is?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Its another step on the slippery slope to total oppression. They are taking away financial benefits for poor people who cannot find work and have more than 2 children. They are effectively putting a limit on the number of children poor people can afford to have.

The difference between the east and west, is that the east are more open about their oppressive policies. The west hide behind their so-called morales and advancement. The west are better at screwing everyone while appearing righteous, and the saddest part of it all is that most people fall for it.

I'm personally tired of paying for other people's kids.

If you can't afford to have a child, then don't have a child! Why would anyone think the government should provide for their children? It's irresponsibility at the highest level.

reply to post by Firefly_


I'm afraid we'll have to disagree... I have little sympathy for and no desire to support people in an unlimited way as they just keep having kids they know they cannot afford. If they can pay for them, more power to them. There's a family in Arkansas with 18 or 19 kids I believe it was....They paid for them too. That's where It's no one's business. When people make the kids financial wards of the state by default? Well... heck.. who gives the state IT'S money? I feel a little offended, personally with some extreme cases.

Eugenics...is outright evil though. That's literally the selective breeding to achieve a desired outcome in the population. Whether it be race, intelligence or some other combination. Evil..... How the state not supporting people having kids with reckless abandon can compare is another thing I guess we'll agree to disagree on.

Limiting the number of children is not Eugenics. And this isn't even limiting children, it is limiting the amount of benefits the government is willing to pay.

Eugenics is the act of manipulating the gene pool in order to weed out genetic flaws and undesirable traits. Things like the forced sterilization of mentally and physically handicapped people, and prohibiting inter-racial marriage would be Eugenics. Racial purity is often a term that is associated with Eugenics.

Eugenics

reply to post by smyleegrl


On the other hand, if hard working people with 2 kids, and the mother is pregnant with the 3rd, end up unemployed due to the rich gambling with their livelihoods and losing, and forcing them to pay for their mistakes. Why should they suffer so the government can penny pinch from them?

Anyway, how the hell do you know that these people are just sponging? Just because they are unemployed and on benefits does not mean they are not contributing positively to society. They could be doing voluntary work, for charities or at school or whatever. There are many reasons why people do not work, laziness is just one of them. So take off your one size fits all judgemental glasses please.

reply to post by TheComte


Hence why I said through the back door. Its little things like these that are used to test the waters, then before we know it, bigger and more dangerous bills will pass, and we might as well be living in China.

reply to post by Firefly_


There's a difference in a family falling on hard times and needing help, and folks who play the system.

I have no problem whatsoever helping people who need the help AND use that help to better their situation in life. Many people do just that; they have a setback, get government assistance to help them through the lean times, get their feet under them, and then they are nice again self sufficient. That's what the system is designed to do.

Unfortunately, there are those who know how to play the system so that they get maximum benefits with no effort n their part. They have kids as a means to continue the supply of money. How do I know? I work with these people on a daily basis. I've seen it. It happens.

It's these latter people whom I do not want to support.

Some Parents Make Me Want To Scream

Good, why should i pay for the feckless to have more kids than they can afford yet expect the state ( ie taxpayers) to pay for them. This isn't eugenics and i'm sorry that socialists have to try and label it as such.

Perhaps if previous administrations hadn't given so much they couldn't afford, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

So no extra ivory back scratcher for the rich, just stop borrowing money we dont have to give to people for nothing, is it really so hard to understand, to stop living beyond your means

Originally posted by Firefly_
So, the Tory toffs have announced a new policy, that restricts the amount of child benefit new claimants will be able to make, in effect limiting the amount of children they want the poor to have.

No, they haven't.

Right in your quote from the article it says, "BEING CONSIDERED."

Nice try though.

reply to post by Firefly_


Well, I disagree. These things are the result of too much government debt and waste and now they've got to cut back wherever they can.

There are a lot of people who continue to have kids just to increase their government welfare check. And a lot of the times the kids don't even benefit from the money. It goes towards the parents' own vices. So something needs to be done. No solution will be perfect.

reply to post by TheComte


Define a "lot". I can bet you, that while these people do exist, that they are not as rampant as people like to think.

The simple fact is that the majority of people, yet again, who will suffer, are those in genuine need of the assistance.

And if you think that the government do not have contempt for the poor, then you and I are living in different realities. It is entirely the sort of thing they would do, using a situation like this to test the water for something much darker like eugenics. They of course will never just jump in at the deep end, people will not allow it. But by starting off in baby steps and phasing it in before people notice, they will get away with it. If you don't believe me, then ask yourself, has the government ever done anything similar in the past regarding social engineering and experimentation?

Having children is a life choice. If you want more than two kids, you have to pay for them, by getting a job, 2 if needs be.

Nobody is suggesting that people shouldn't have more than 2 kids. Although I am not a supporter of this Government, they are tackling the Benefit dependant culture that has existed for some time in the U.K.

labour could have done something about this in the 13 years they were in control of the purse strings, but shirked their responsibility. Kids shouldn't be a meal ticket. They should be born into a nurturing environment and taught all about the rigours of life and the pitfalls that could beset them.

Instead we have seen kids being born into selfish families intent on grabbing all they can and forcing their offspring into a lifestyle of similar ilk when they reach a particular age.

reply to post by Firefly_


The last Eugenics laws to be repealed in Canada were done so in 1972. Alberta and BC were sterilizing mentally handicapped people.

Throwing an E-word does not make your argument more valid. Eugenics was bad because they killed and forcibly sterilised people. Limiting child benefits? Eugenics or not, I support that.

While you all cheer the destruction of the things that made this country good, you are advocating the removal of safety nets that will affect you and your offspring, as the rich who are robbing from us cause more of us to fall into destitution. So when you fall you will hit rock bottom and nothing will be there to help you, because you refused to fight for it while you had the chance. You punish the majority of vulnerable people because a few people abuse the system.

Look at all the things that have been exposed recently, that makes you wonder what else is going on we have no idea about? There is no low these people will not stoop to. If people are so closed minded to not even consider the possibilities, then I guess there is no longer any point in me even visiting these forums. I might as well just go to the Daily Mail and Sun websites, as that is the same direction ATS has been falling for a while now. I don't hear much different here.

I am not the most intelligent person, but I am observant and I can put 2 and 2 together. Sometimes I come up with 3, or 5, or even 54365, but I am often right about these sort of things, or thereabouts. I hope this is one of those things that I am way off on, but governmental players (that is all parties, Tory, Lib Dem, Labour, BNP etc who are all merely puppets) are evil. They have utter contempt for anyone outside of their circle, and they are systematically destroying this nation and have been for decades.

reply to post by Firefly_


Having been in the 40% tax bracket since Y2K, I've paid a lot of money in to the system and I really believe in the benefit system. I have several conditions that mean I can't always work and therefore I need to claim money back from the system from time to time and even though I've put so much in to the system, I still hardly get anything back out when I am unfit for work. This annoys me beyond belief, however what annoys me even more is the fact that many benefit families become breeders and not only do they stay on benefits themselves (and keep in mind that some of them have never had a job...pikey scum) they also start claiming benefits for their children, who undoubtedly learn from their parents that they are "entitled" to benefits and that they never have to earn money because it's being given to them without them having to do anything. Breeders who expect the rest of the country to pay for their children disgust me and they are a good example of everything that's wrong with the UK.

It is my belief that benefit families should only be given benefits for 2 children and they should also not be able to claim housing benefits for multi-million pound mansions in London because they're the only places that have enough bedrooms for all their children.

What angers me the most however is how difficult it has been for my disabled wife and myself to claim the benefits that we're entitled to because of all those people who fake illness to screw the system. Don't get me wrong, I know that not all of the people who claim benefits are parasites, but because of those who are, the benefits system doesn't work the way it should and that is a very sad thing.

Rev

reply to post by Firefly_


I dont believe this somehow has to lead to true eugenics. Thats pretty a stretch. I would say its a slippery slope logical fallacy in this case (similar to people who claim allowing gay marriages would lead to pedophilia being legalised).

IF they start to push true eugenics in the future, THEN I will oppose them. But this is not eugenics, and its a change I fully support.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

On the other hand, if hard working people with 2 kids, and the mother is pregnant with the 3rd, end up unemployed due to the rich gambling with their livelihoods and losing, and forcing them to pay for their mistakes. Why should they suffer so the government can penny pinch from them?

Anyway, how the hell do you know that these people are just sponging? Just because they are unemployed and on benefits does not mean they are not contributing positively to society. They could be doing voluntary work, for charities or at school or whatever. There are many reasons why people do not work, laziness is just one of them. So take off your one size fits all judgemental glasses please.

Bull, get a job!

Okay so these people who can't find a job and expect all of us to support their children are out doing volunteer work?



Like I said get a job!