The 4th secret of Fatima

Many would say the Neues Europa text is the closest we have to the 3rd secret of Fatima. But if you pay attention, it speaks of the Sun miracle, that took place on Oct 13, 1917. While the so called 3rd secret is a part of the message given on July 13, 1917 (the missing part of the so called 2nd secret - pls see my thread on the 2nd secret).

So let read again Neues Europa well known text, published afterwards in Le Monde (French ) and even in Osservatore Romano during the interregnum between John Paul I and II. By nobody else but Monsignor Balducci, who later spoke of extraterrestrial life. Allegedly, the 3rd secret has been given to leading politicians at that time, incl Khrushchev, who were said to be moved by the text. For reference, you have quite many sources for that infamous text, incl. this one: fatima.org However, many of the sources give their interpretations as what the real "3rd secret might mean" and these interpretations run into ecclesiastical dispute of insiders of Vatican, something I really want to avoid, first because this is beyond my knowledge. What is open to my knowledge and yours, are the alleged words of Our Lady on October 13, 1917 right after the Sun miracle, that should be labelled as 4th secret because they come after the first 3 parts.

I will not copy/paste the text of Neues Europa, you can find it upon the click. And I strongly advice you to do so if you've never read it, or to reread it and reflect. 20th century just passed with 12 years granted to humanity who deserved the punishment much earlier. OL envisions a World war that will make oceans becoming steam. Pretty much what scientists say is possible - total burn out of cities in the aftermath of a large scale nuclear war, followed by smokes that will cause nuclear winter. I.e. most people will die from the fires after the initial nuclear blast, from the smokes, (fire from heaven - Akita) and whoever does not, will die from the coming ice age. If not rescued somehow on secure location.

reply to post by 2012newstart


Well if everyones going to die, whats the point of worrying about anything? May as well not bother stocking up on food, water or anything else. I'm either going to die crispy or fn freezing... Thanks for showing me my destiny. better get ready to save yourself yeah?

Not everyone is going to die. The life continues. it is Not the Second Coming yet.
I say more things in my thread about the 2nd (and 3rd) secret.
If there is a way out Inside the secret texts, it is carefully cut off by those who change it with a forgery.

The official secret is not even written by Lucia!

The problem is that there IS a rescue way out, and those in power or some of them are afraid of it and don't want us to know it. Yes it is connected to extraterrestrial angelic help, and to its relations to earthy powers. Saying that, I recommend you reading my previous threads on Fatima.

What we read in Neues Europa, may be a close text to secret, but it is not the 3rd secret either. So I called it 4th.
It is a shame 95 years later we still wonder what has been said, in the era of internet. So many people who knew it died with the secret. As cardinal Bea for ex. What do they lose at that age to deliver it to the world?

reply to post by 2012newstart


So what is the 3rd secret of Fatima that has been released to the public? Is it the original prophecy or someones exagerated interpretation of it?

I got to this part," Mankind has not developed as God expected ." and stopped.
An ALL Knowing G_D knows how we will develop. So much, that he died for our sins.
Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe this part of the story.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

So what is the 3rd secret of Fatima that has been released to the public? Is it the original prophecy or someones exagerated interpretation of it?

Let say it in plain language: it was forged. The handwriting of Lucia doesn''t match. Along with other issues concerning the contain of the secret that was said to be a date, a stile of the Second Secret (cont. of Our Lady's words there, given the same day), a dramatic event of planetary character (JPII in Fulda) and several others. What we got in 2000 was a VISION, on 4 pages instead of...1-2 as known, with different handwriting of a different nun, not talking of any disasters that JPII and other cardinals hinted at. And speaking of some persecution that never literally happened - the pope was never martyred on a mountain together with cardinals and lay people by a group of soldiers, as the vision states. Moreover, the city in the vision - Rome, was never half in ruin in the real life.

Originally posted by Violater1
I got to this part," Mankind has not developed as God expected ." and stopped.
An ALL Knowing G_D knows how we will develop. So much, that he died for our sins.
Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe this part of the story.

Your right. You would expect god to know our destiny already whether we change our current path or not. In the end, he is the one guiding us on our path apparently.

I don't know what has been said in other threads, so will repeat something for the sake of the reader.

1,2,3 secrets are given all in one apparition on July 13, 1917. 1,2 are released after Lucia writes them on paper and sends them in a sealed envelop to the pope in 1941. I don't know the exact year of their public release, but as you see the year of the writing is already inside WW2. Pls see my thread "2nd secret..." where I quote.

The so called 3rd secret should be the prolongued section of the 2nd secret that ends with the known words "in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph..." etc.

The text of Neues Europa (not posted here, pls google) is given allegedly on October 13, 1917. It is a Different Text from the 1,2,3 secrets, since the apparition is different. Whether "Neues Europa" presents it authentically, more or less, we have the testimony of cardinal Ottaviani that it does so very closely although not 100%. And to some degree the words of John Paul II in Fulda who speaks in the same sense of possible planetary cataclysms although he does not say they will happen for sure. So the text known as Neues Europa should be named differently from the so called 3rd secret. Unfortunately, until this day we do not know the 3rd secret given on July 13, 1917 together with 1 and 2.

6 apparitions to the 3 children are not the only ones. It is known that at least Lucia had more apparitions, and probably Jacinta too. Francesco has seen separately at least once one of the demonic creatures that have been shown in hell in secret 1.

The vision of persecution and pope's martyrdom released oficialy in 2000, and popularly known as 3rd secret, is a separate vision that Jacinta speaks about (if remember correctly) the bishop clothed in white. Whether or not it is the authentic handwritting of Lucia on the 4pages' released text, there are doubts claimed by organizations such as fatima.org. Even if fully autentic, as I want to believe, it is a different vision, separate from the above texts that deal with words of the Bessed Mother.

Notice all of them are given on different dates, and not as popularly known only on the Fatima Sun miracle October 13, 1917.

The consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is given as precise request later - only to Lucia who is already a cloistered nun. One may speculate forever whether this request has been fulfilled and if it is fully fulfilled. John Paul II made a consecration in 1984 of the world including those countries and nations who need it most. That presumably would have included Russia too, although not mentioned by name. It is still USSR btw, a name Our Lady never mentions.

Russia had unprecedented changes since then, and the Orthodox Church enjoyed unprecedented liberties. New churches were built, including the ruined by Stalin cathedral "Christ the Savior" near Kremlin. (Not the same as the red domed church on the red square St Basil the Blessed). Last year during the visit of the holy belt of Mother of God kept in Mt Athos Vatopedi monastery, some 2-3 mln Russians venerated it throughout Russia, including remote regions of Siberia known for their prison camps and underground cities. Is this enough for conversion? Nobody knows. But it is ill -conceived to compare the 1983 USSR of Andropov who nearly started WW3 with today's Russia. (see the movie Able Archer 1983 www.youtube.com... a must see!)

If we accept as a matter of fact at least a partial conversion of Russia, and thus fulfillment of the so called 3rd secret given on July 13, 1917, then we should proceed further to the text given on Oct 13, 1917, that is said to be very similar to Neues Europa although not equivalent. I don't know how similar or different from the 3rd secret is the one given on Oct 13. It may speak of probability, of WW3 due to Other circumstances and not the non-converted Russia, or for planetary disasters of cosmic character. We just don't know because we are denied the entire truth.

How that matches with other apparitions that speak of Great warning and Chastisement, and how true they are by themselves since Our Lady does not speak in such terms in Fatima or other approved apparitions, is really hard to say. Especially after we have the example of the mish-mash of Fatima that is fully approved by the Church... So many seers have spoken of imminent events and we continue waiting. May be for too long.

I must say something about La Salette connection (earlier apparition in France). La Salette second message appears much later than the first message, and it is never proven to be authentic, by the church or otherwise. Indeed, it has one bishop as imprimatur. In the age it appears 19th century without the modern means, could we fathom the possibility of changed text "leaked" to the public for whatever purpose.

Even if 100% true, it hides quite many unknowns. For ex. it speaks of a precursor of the antichrist, and then of the rise of the antichrist itself. The two events are separated by a time of delusional peace. My personal read of that gives me the unmistaken image of Hitler as the precursor. However, internet is full of interpretations. One recent interpretation from the so called "third eagle of the apocalypse" says that not Hitler, not even Stalin, but Putin is the precursor of the antichrist...however absurd that statement has its followers in the numbers of thousands.

The Neues Europa text quotes the well known 2nd text of La Salette. We know Neues Europa could be very close to the true Fatima Oct 13 text, however not 100% the same. And we don't know how true La Salette text is by itself.

To build on that theories which goal is to meet the pre-determined end, is not serious. One cannot just substitute an inconvenient contemporary politician with what emerges as the darkest figure of 20th century. Or why not then Hirohito or any other who approved or performed bio-experiments in the Nazi era? I understand the desire to absolve political agenda, but it is just too much of the kind.

Recently yet another seer popped up. Blessed Aiello. Beatified by pope Benedict, she had visions of what we would call the last pope or so, how Rome is trampled under the feet of the Red Army and then liberated. The visions are NOT approved by the pope. Aiello is beatified because of her holy life. I haven't read any official statement on these controversial visions. If during the Cold War they were likely to materialize as a result of overall victory for the Soviet Union over West Europe, now that sounds very far behind in time. We'd better be concerned of the Islamic fundamental terrorism that borders Europe from the South. So I'm thinking of how much a vision, even that of a saint, is connected to the contemporary circumstances and how he/she sees the world at that time. Even if the idea is correct, it may reflect Differently thru different seers over time. Aiello is not alone in that.

(Русская армия в Ватикане) L'armata Russa in Vaticano - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqN9YecKSw

Much is spoken of the 3 days of darkness - whether or not Padre Pio (now St Pio) has said it, or it comes from other saints and blessed, or any combination. Recently Princess Kaoru Nakamaru of Japan spoke of the 3 days of darkness to start on Dec 21, 2012. She added to that all the best of the Buddhist religion, together with futuristic beliefs of underworld in the earth's center and living beings there whom she communicated with, rather good ones. If you can watch it without prejudice of fanatic shaped view, it is worth of watching. www.youtube.com... If you will be tempted in your belief, better don't watch it. Well, we have 2 months plus to see whether the Princess is right together with St Pio and other saints, or whether we still have to undergo some of the Fatima secrets, or whether the antichrist will rise or his proxy will do the work meanwhile. And who is Petrus the Roman, the last pope. And when Jesus Comes after that. How about another 2000 years? In which we (our descendants) will certainly make ET contact? Or that is beyond the plans of God whatsoever? Because we said so. And we were right for Galileo, btw. Who are "we" then?

How about extraterrestrial connection? I would not repeat the reasons and evidence posted in the thread of the 2nd secret, incl testimony of how Pius XII (and all consequent popes) had that connection. John XXIII met George Adamski in the Vatican shortly before he died. (google)

Russian ET connection:
Norway spiral Dec 9, 2009 originated from Russian territory, proves the ex-NASA scientist Richard Hoagland www.enterprisemission.com...
Giant pyramid above Kremlin is posted on two separate videos the day after, advertized on all state TV channels. The film is not made the same year because Hotel Rossiya visible on the video was demolished 2006.
I do not necessarily agree with all conclusions of Richard Hoagland. However his evidence material is more than enough to start asking questions.

There is a desperate need for elemental physics education of the devote people, in what is known as post-Newtonian physics. WHat the connection with Fatima? Bear with me, please. They may start with Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking on Discovery, and I guess something is available on youtube too. Good visualization is also offered in a number of cartoons representing Einstein's main points, as well as "paradoxes". We are not talking of hypothesis here, rather of proven science many times over. Your GPS wouldn't work if Einstein was wrong. Neither will CERN.

It is amazing how many people jump and cry Wolf when mention HAARP and CERN, not making any effort to understand the basic principles behind that sophysticated but understandable after all physics. Movies like Dan Brown's Angels and Demons pour oil on the fire, so many incl webadmins of popular apparitions sites prefer to see the devil in the unknown. Forgetting that everything created may be used for good as well as for bad. Does it mean we shouldn't bother to know the elemental principles of the atomic bomb, and say instead it is from the devil? its possible use is incited by the devil, but that doesn't absolve us from the duty to keep ourselves updated, and to have appropriate educated position. Similarly is within the sphere of bio-science, but I will not enter in that. Let others do the job.

Why so important and why with Fatima /apparitions? Because tomorrow Blue beam or even more dare events will happen, or will be called such, by people who have no idea what is all about. They will autmoatically see the devil, as they see it now in HAARP and CERN, and UFO. They will be commanded by someone in the name of God to do this and that and to go here or there. And they will do as a flock without understanding, believing blindly some human shepherd. They will regret the time they spend now, that could be used for education besides the endless rosaries. They could have educated their children- or vice versus as usually happens, when the young generation brings home movies that seem inconvenient for the elderly. They could have been saved and continue the life on earth, until the Second Coming (after ~10,000 years?) Many of them however will choose the other way and will cease their lines of generations because of that. Yes they may be saints in heaven. But others will inherit the earth. it is that important. And I see a cunning effort of the adversary to make that possible - the devote people to cease their lines of physical existence, because of their lack of knowledge and their fanaticism. Fatima saga is a great example how that works in practice from all sides.

www.youtube.com... Andrew Basiago in interview with project Camelot, describes his experience as a child in a selected group to train stargate jump in project Pegasus. He claims the manuals were bearing the signatures of Centro Inteligencia Vaticano. The jumps occurred usually after the daily catholic mass...Why children? Because they didn't go mad after the jumps...
Whatever the truth, the sooner the Vatican people open it, the better for us all.It is just ridiculous we learn of what happens there from almost purely secular sources. Another example is the one I already posted, Robert Dean speaking of the infamous meeting Eisenhower-Aliens, where was present cardinal McIntyre of Los Angeles. After the meeting, despite the warnings he flew immediately to Rome to inform pope Pius XII.
We are just covered by so thick secrecy that everything will sound as Sci Fi until it is revealed in pubic. And then will be too late for many to make the right choice.
What more to say in a thread where are no people to discuss anything substantial, no matter the amount of evidence presented? Why should I lose more time then?
Shame on those catholics who know almost everything posted but keep tight-lipped because they are afraid to say a word.

You do know that most of the world is not Catholic dont you? Sorry but the creator created all of us not just the Catholics. Heck most of the world is not even Christian. Any true religion would have to make room for all of us, not just a select few.

Originally posted by karen61057
You do know that most of the world is not Catholic dont you? Sorry but the creator created all of us not just the Catholics. Heck most of the world is not even Christian. Any true religion would have to make room for all of us, not just a select few.

Well said Karen. I'm not a religious man, i lean more towards Taoism, i love nature.
Whoever it was that was privy to the secrets of "Fatima" i think he was either hallucinating, on drugs or both.

The same as Darkandstormy posted

"Well if everyone's going to die, what's the point of worrying about anything? May as well not bother stocking up on food, water or anything else. I'm either going to die crispy or fn freezing... Thanks for showing me my destiny. better get ready to save yourself yeah"

That rings true as well.

Originally posted by karen61057
You do know that most of the world is not Catholic dont you? Sorry but the creator created all of us not just the Catholics. Heck most of the world is not even Christian. Any true religion would have to make room for all of us, not just a select few.

Just who are you? From your reply I see you identify yourself as none of the above.
Let mention that 2.5 billion identify themselves as Christians, from which ~ 1.2 bln catholics. 1.5 bln are believed to be Muslims, although that number may grow faster because of birth rate there. So at least we have 2.5+1.5 = 4 billion human beings who accept the Bible's first books as God's revealed truth. Of course the Jews "our older brothers in faith" are also in that number, and they despite a minority are a very important one, because we have the sacret texts thanks to the Jews.

Remain ~ 3 billion + human beings who belong to other religions and traditions, or who do not profess any. They are no less human beings. I have never said that. At the same time, it is up to them whether or not they woud believe this or that religion and whether or not they will follow this or that rule. I don't understand how do you want me to make room for them. They are always welcome! What I do in this thread is to comment mostly an apparition regarding our times, that is not a part of the Bible. I.e. not even the Catholics are obligued to believe that Virgin Mary indeed appeared. They could so, if they wish so.
Thanks for your attention, and for the fruitful discussion about the Fatima secrets! I see no one knows what they are, neither the catholics in this forum who pretend they know almost everything.

To show how far the estimations of some people are, that this or that particular political force is the Beast's 7 head (and the estimations usually fall on the "other side") I will quote the book of Esdras that is included in the Latin Vulgate, and in the first edition of King James Bible, but later excluded.

2 Esdras 15 sacred-texts.com...

"28 Behold an horrible vision, and the appearance thereof from the east:

29 Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia shall come out with many chariots, and the multitude of them shall be carried as the wind upon earth, that all they which hear them may fear and tremble.

The thread started well - discussing about the possible elimination of the world in 2012 through nuclear incidents. I can see that this is very highly possible with the heavily nuclear armed Israel and America on one side and Iran-Russia-China on the other side going to a war which I see is inevitable due to the "pushed to a corner with no other options left" position of Iran and the reliability of the other nations on Iranian oil.

The it started to veer off with a totally different discussion on Christianity vs the other religions in the world.

Good start though. Thanks for the information.

thank you too! A thread is as much valuable as the posters in it. A thread is also not a monologue or try to convince somebody in a theory, rather a SUBSTANTIAL discussion.
WW3 is very possible to break out in the weeks after the US elections, for too many reasons to be listed.
However, if it is avoided somehow, then I am afraid the EU is going to inevitably embrace the Muslim world and possibly religion mix. One may call that "antichrist system" of false peace and united religion. This is a big IF. I think it is not gonna happen.
Regarding Fatima, we still don't know, not only the so called 3rd secret, but also what is said after it (Neues Europa being an example how little we know). I already expressed my deep reservations about the 1941 written text of "second secret" that bears approval of official Rome. With the absurd 3rd secret official text, that approved 2nd text also becomes doubtful. Pls see my other thread of the 2nd secret, and why someone in hi-position might actually want the things to get worse before they get better. Here comes the vision of the pope and bishops martyred.

I will add something more - since Fatima there are at least a dozen of big apparitions, big in terms of popularity. They all speak of that. Currently Anguera speaks of cataclysms, while Medjugorje hides everything again in secrets. I will not say anything about their validity because I can't do that now.

However, at least one major apparition was banned by the church authorities and that is Bayside. It is heavily politicized at the period of highest tensions in the cold war. Does it mean it is all wrong, and whatever is said there should be considered wrong anywhere in other apparitions that are still not ruled on?

Actually one doesn't need apparitions to see the world goes into a chaos and a world war, scenarios differ. The approved apparitions are the level of responsibility the Vatican hi-ranks want to bear to inform the population and foremost their faithful. It is striking the words of JPII (quoted exactly in the other thread) that if there is a secret that millions of people would die from one moment to another, there is no need to release such information...
I do not accept that approach. No matter now JPII is beatified. This is a wrong approach and leads the people into happy end scenarios that are imaginary. We have enough examples of that - Fukushima being the last one.

I mentioned Bayside as the only major BANNED apparition. First of all, I do not take position to defend or to condemn. There is a ruling of the local bishop, now deceased (as well as the seer Veronica) and there isn't any ruling of higher authority. So theoretically the first ruling could either be confirmed or overrun, or most probably left as it is without comment. This is important for the staunch believers who make the core of a 1.2 bln church, the "die hard" ones.

But what exactly is said in Bayside? You could check TLDM website and other sites that spread the visions and messages received by Veronika. Without propagadting or rejecting them, I remember one particular phrase that struck me down. OL allegedly said at one place that "we have six times less missiles than USSR" We - in terms of USA? Or in terms of OL? Our Lady doesn't need missiles, She has Angels. May be I just don't understand the language used, something I am sorry about. The entire apparitions spanned over 2 decades are filled with anti-soviet rhetoric. Besides that, they say quite unpleasant things of Vatican II and Paul VI particular.

So...if it is true after all, why not the church higher authorities revise it? And if it is false, then why do some people buy the same rhetoric TODAY? May be because WW3 is desirable outcome for both sides, still. Despite all changes and talks otherwise. I will not go deeper into that. Just leave it to the conscious of people who will swear they follow every word of OL in so many apparitions, incl those who occur today. Which words, of which OL, and for what? For peace or for war? What is the final purpose of an apparition, isn't it the conversion of soul, and if possible, the physical salvation too? In the case of a world war with megaton explosions that endanger the atmosphere and the planet as a whole, the physical escape could amount to the continuation of the human life or its cease on planet Earth. Are we For, or Against it? And what do we do for that, besides prayer?

I will challenge even further the "die hard" core of believers, hoping some of them who read every relevant post here, will finally break their silence. Please, prove me wrong! Isn't it the forum a place to do exactly that?

How about the planetary cataclysms predicted in the ongoing Brazilian apparition of Anguera? Comets and asteroids, tectonic plates shifts and rivers of fire are predicted there.

No official ruling of the church yet. So it is pretty open for interpretation. If it is true, then we face a planetary cataclysm of the magnitude of the one that found the dinosaurs unprepared. And if false, ...who and why do that. I want to believe it is true, or the other option is that someone warns us - someone that is not OL. In either way, at the end of 2012 it might be wise to address those things directly. What does the Vatican really know, and why the world is still not informed? Why could we use the microchip computer without knowing anything how it came to this world, after thousands of years primitive tools? What amount of revealed secrecy could save us and our children, and from what that is to come? These questions and others (that I hope you will put soon) are relevant regardless if you are Christian or Buddhists. We are all mortal, said Kennedy after resolving the existential drama with Khrushchev.

Part of Neues Europa text: www.fatima.org...

. Then fire and smoke will fall from the sky, and the waters of the oceans will be turned to steam, hurling their foam towards the sky; and all that is standing will be cast down. Millions and millions of men will lose their lives from one hour to the next, and those who remain living will envy those who are dead. There will be tribulation as far as the eye can see, and misery all over the earth and desolation in every country.

Akita, Japan, approved apparition: olrl.org...

Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead.

The question is will those apocalyptic scenes be a part of WW3, or of planetary/cosmic upheaval, or both in sequence? If it is WW3 it is wise to consider what Rand McNally speaks of a nuclear tornado ona territory of an entire continent, if not in the whole atmosphere. Also refer to the question of atmosphere ignition discussed by the fathers of the first atomic bomb (wikipedia). If it is asteroid etc space impact, we know well the scenarios, available online. So, what? And how we get out of it alive? I guess some have the answers.