Children are banned from eating Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwiches at school

Originally posted by Hefficide

I agree. Peanut allergies are so prevalent and dangerous that schools controlling the product are a good idea. Kids tend to share and trade, which is good... but they're sometimes too young and uninformed. A traded half sandwich could result in the death of a child.

One could argue that parents need to do a better job of instructing their own kids about these things. But kids... well they'll be kids.

~Heff

You know for this ban to have any teeth it cant stop at peanut butter, right?

It has to extend to any and all products with the warning: "manufactured/packaged in a facility with peanuts" which is just about anything and everything and those warnings arent even mandatory. They're voluntary. Which means every product is suspect.

So for this ban to have any value at all every bit of outside product, not even simply food product, must be banned from the building.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

Just think of a 7 year old eating a pb&j. That kid is gonna have peanut butter smeared all over the place by the end of lunch, on the tables, on the door handles, on the lockers, on the bannister, for some a tiny amount can be fatal.

I understand what you are saying, and I sympathize with people that suffer from allergies.
But....
This is a public school, with all the things that might be found in a public setting. That would include stray bits of peanut/peanut products on door handles and such. Are we to believe that the child's parents do not allow him to go into the general public, since they have no control over peanut products there?
I mean, are we to believe that this child has never been in a restaurant or grocery store? They do sell peanuts and peanut products in grocery stores, so they are present there.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

How then do we explain the case reports that have been associated with the odor of peanuts? These can be conditioned physiologic responses, akin to the famous experiment of Pavlov, in which dogs were conditioned to salivate at the sound of a bell. Almost any physiologic response can be conditioned, including changes in blood pressure, heart rate, body temperature, skin rashes, and respiration. The conditioning stimulus can be the sound of a bell or in this case, the smell and aroma of peanuts and peanut butter.

Link: PDF

In some cases the bodies reaction is triggered by the odour of peanuts. This article equates it to a pavlovian response by the body. You detect the presence of peanuts and automatically break down into defensive measures, eg hives, heart rate increase.

Scary stuff in my opinion.

Originally posted by MDDoxs
Would you be some inclined to oppose this policy if you had a child that was deadly allergic to peanuts and who at the faintest smell would break down into painful convulsions?

I hope not...

I am all for having as much freedom as possible, but the fact of the matter is, in a public facility, peanuts have the potential to infringe on the rights of those who are allergic to have a safe environment to learn in.

Food for thought

edit on 14-9-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

I honestly don't know what I'd do if I had a child that went into painful convulsions over a faint smell. If it was really THAT extreme I'd most likely ask a teacher or someone at the school if my child could eat his lunch in a classroom somewhere. I'm sure there is a teacher somewhere who is sitting in their empty classroom during lunch period who wouldn't mind helping out a child with horrible allergies. Ask if his friends could join him.

If their allergy was so extreme, banning peanuts from the school isn't going to help. Someone could have ate a peanut for breakfast and have a tiny bit on their hand, or shirt, which would evidently cause the same problem if a faint smell is deadly to some kids.

Would you support a ban on what the kids, and the kids families can eat at home? Since it's possible there could be cross contamination coming from the other kids homes too. Do hundreds and hundreds of kids and their families have to alter their home lives as well to cater to a few people at their school? How far are you willing to go, and how many other people do you want to make responsible before you figure the easiest thing to do is just have the person with the problem be the one to make sure it's taken care of?

Maybe now the american kid will learn how to have a real meal for lunch

reply to post by MDDoxs


I know all about food allergies. I have family and coworkers with immune disorders who just smelling peanuts will cause throat closure. Dairy, eggs, all nuts, etc...

Its sort of foolish to extend the worry of death to simply being at school, no? Once you step outside the home you are susceptible. Even in the home you are susceptible.

This is an irrational reaction to a real threat that in no way helps or protects.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


That is correct. But one has to start with the obvious and work from there. It is not an easy fix at all, but one that needs to be addressed.

Since budget cuts have taken nurses out of schools this is a major issue. Anaphalaxis is a serious situation and the only alternative to controlling the allergy issue is to just become a society where we say "Meh, so a few kids die horrible deaths. Cest la vie".

I'd rather get the allergens out.

~Heff

Ban is stupid. Totally uncalled for. i remember when i was in school. Never got anyone elses food smeared on me.

I just had PB&T and it was delicious! The perfect emergency meal!
I could not imagine not eating peanut products.

I hope this ban stays in school, that's all I have to say.

The deadly peanut, not just something one chokes on anymore.
Makes me wonder if some kids have deliberately smeared peanut butter on door handles just to be little pricks?

reply to post by kaylaluv


I am not calling for any kind of "nut-free" environment, i am just putting the information out there.

We can't have all these public places be nut-free - that's not practical, nor is it fair to everyone else.

What would you suggest? Segregation?

I think the common active campaigns for allergies is awareness and in some cases the implimentation of policies to limit the public exposer of said products.

I agree with you that we cant allergy proof everything in our world. Kids and adults alike need to be keenly aware of their environments.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I think the issue is that a school, depending on the type, is a public facility. Meaning it has to be safe for all who attend.

I am just playing devils advocate here since you all seem to love PB&J sandwiches

Good discussion thus far

reply to post by MDDoxs


From your link (which didn't work for me):

In summary, inhalation of peanut protein can cause allergic reactions (but usually not systemic anaphylaxis), while odors can cause conditioned physiologic responses. In a well-ventilated school cafeteria located away from the kitchen and food preparation areas, the main source of peanut protein would be from direct ingestion or skin contact, not airborne contact.

Link

I say there are MANY ways to rectify the situation without BANNING something. And others have made great points as to other public places a child may be. I have a food allergy and I have to be careful. I haven't eaten out in 2 years. It's just something the INDIVIDUAL has to deal with. I hate the idea of making the world have to deal with my personal issue!

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I am not calling for any kind of "nut-free" environment, i am just putting the information out there.

We can't have all these public places be nut-free - that's not practical, nor is it fair to everyone else.

What would you suggest? Segregation?

I think the common active campaigns for allergies is awareness and in some cases the implimentation of policies to limit the public exposer of said products.

I agree with you that we can allergy proof everything in our world. Kids and adults alike need to be keenly aware of their environments.

When my daughter was in first grade, we brought cupcakes for her birthday. There was one little girl who had a couple of severe allergies. When the cupcakes were passed around, she just refused it. She had been taught well by her parents to beware anything that she wasn't absolutely sure of.

I think if a child has a severe, extra-sensitive allergy, they should not be in a public school.

reply to post by Hefficide


You dont need to be a nurse to use an epi-pen and call 911. The directions are on the tube. As long as you are literate you can use one.

And we already are a society who dismisses deaths. We do it everyday. Which makes it all that more bizarre when a segment of the population latches onto a cause du joir for 15 minutes, messes with it just enough to accomplish nothing, then moves on to the next cause du joir.

Those allergic kids, any kid, is far, far, faaaarrr more likely to meet their end commuting to or from the school than they are to die of their allergy.

About 10 people die a year from peanut allergies in the US. Where does that rank on the heirarchy of avoidable deaths? Top 10? Top 50? Top 1000?

reply to post by MDDoxs


It is true about the smell.
Some people can not even be in the same room as a person opening up a bag of peanuts.
Just the smell will make their throats swell and suffocate them.
Not to long ago when I was flying, the stewardess told everyone that they would not serve peanuts during the flight, since there was a person with peanut allergy on the plane.

Personally I think peanuts are like manna from heaven
Yum yum!

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I think the issue is that a school, depending on the type, is a public facility. Meaning it has to be safe for all who attend.

I am just playing devils advocate here since you all seem to love PB&J sandwiches

Good discussion thus far

Are the streets not public? To accept that position we would have to ban peanut products and all products packaged or manufactured in a facility where they may or may not have come into contact with peanuts from any and all public spaces.

May I say that is impossible? Because it sure is.

reply to post by MDDoxs

Originally posted by MDDoxs
I think the issue is that a school, depending on the type, is a public facility. Meaning it has to be safe for all who attend.

Well, I'm allergic to gluten (bread, cakes, pies, pasta, crackers, etc.) So, I could have the peanut butter and jelly, but the bread would HAVE to go! Would you support schools catering to my diet? It won't kill me, but it could make me very sick and I would miss school the next day.

I am just playing devils advocate here since you all seem to love PB&J sandwiches

I hear you. I think it's a good discussion, too.

reply to post by kaylaluv

I think if a child has a severe, extra-sensitive allergy, they should not be in a public school.

Wow, thats quite a statement. Under that logic, anyone who is not of the status-quo or is a nuisance should not be allowed to attend public school?

Ignorance is all i have to say.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Hefficide

I agree. Peanut allergies are so prevalent and dangerous that schools controlling the product are a good idea. Kids tend to share and trade, which is good... but they're sometimes too young and uninformed. A traded half sandwich could result in the death of a child.

One could argue that parents need to do a better job of instructing their own kids about these things. But kids... well they'll be kids.

~Heff

You know for this ban to have any teeth it cant stop at peanut butter, right?

It has to extend to any and all products with the warning: "manufactured/packaged in a facility with peanuts" which is just about anything and everything and those warnings arent even mandatory. They're voluntary. Which means every product is suspect.

So for this ban to have any value at all every bit of outside product, not even simply food product, must be banned from the building.

edit on 14-9-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

It can't stop at just peanuts, and it can't stop at just school either. Like I said, they will have to ban all the kids, and the kids family, and the families visitors from eating peanut products in their own homes. In effect the home life of these kids in their families will be dicated by the school, because there is pretty much the same chance that cross contamination happens from the home as well.

Where will it stop? Or perhaps the better question, where should it stop? I think it's already gone too far, but that's what this discussion is for. I'm curious about how others feel about it.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I agree with you. If it is truly to protect children then it would have to be a ban for "manufactured/packaged in a facility with peanuts"

Shouldn't the same then be done with grains for celiac's disease?

Shouldn't we keep them inside so none of them get's stung by a bee?

But let's face it, the public school system is soooooo great at taking a stand at protecting our children, right? You know there is now a "zero" tolerance for bullying, so there should be no bullies in school, right?

It is not peanuts in the air. In extreme cases the peanut oil just has to touch the skin, but that is in extreme cases. That would mean that the schools would have to instill hand washing. How hard would that be?

I am so tired of showboating from the public school systems that puts out propaganda that they are doing something to resolve an issue, when in fact they are not.