Mathematical expression of possible God...

Okay, where to start....

I will first divulge that I do not belong to any religious group.
I am also not one to freely hand over ammunition to creationist, because I do believe in evolution.
That being said, I was working on my thread in the Ev&Cr Forum, and a thought came to me.


I think there is a possible way to express the potential existence of one or more gods.

Now I know... I was actually thinking of not posting this...but that wouldn't be fair.

SO let's get started.

First we have to begin with Probability.
Anyone familiar with this, understands that given infinite amount of time, there is an infinite amount of possibilities.

String theory derived to mathematical necessity of extra dimensions

Next we go to M Theory, which is a derivative of sting theory, concerning the possibility of membranes that created universes through collisions

Then we have to consider the Multiverse, It states there are many Universes all with different properties, or a high probability of different properties.

Now what we have to do is isolate variables.
I.E.:Number of God/s or Number of God/s per universe, Level of Omnipotence (if it is an energy god, then it would isolated to a single universe...Lifespan...ect...)


Now, I have not written out the mathematical expression for this yet.
But, a good comparison is the Drake Equation
Also when considering the Drake Equation as a comparison, then Fermi's Paradox must be equally weighed.

*It should be noted the variable in the Drake Equation are much more defined, and should not be used as a direct comparison. It is just a way to express the general idea of how it would work.

This is not an mathematical way to prove god exists, it is just a way to prove that it is possible that a god, may exist in at least one Universe.

This is a work in progress.

Any thoughts...

For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

reply to post by KingAtlas


Can't say that I would completely understand all of it, but it sure sounds interesting. Best of luck.

Originally posted by SpearMint
For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but the way I think of it, it's not so much that God exists without time so much as He exists outside of time. Or to put it another way, time doesn't affect him the same way it affects us.

Originally posted by SpearMint
For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

"Time" as we understand it is just a human construction...

reply to post by SpearMint


That is kind of where level of omnipotence comes into play.
I think expressing the level of omnipotence in a value base say between 1-5
(1 being least omnipotent 5 being most)

You can ascertain that the higher the lever of omnipotence the higher the likelihood that a potential God could exist outside spacetime.

But, the other consideration to be made is with M-theory, Say Two p branes collide, and at that point the p branes are capable of creating a universe, Now two possible senarios arise
1-P branes could be a form of god
2-A god could exist within a P brane and when they collide and the universe is created that would allow a lower omnipotence value god to travel into the newly created universe.

(obviously I am counting 3 - God as a 0 value )


I think you have to broaden you definition of God, to get the concept.

Here a god that exist as energy ( or demi-god) would be very low value, obviously and energy god would not be able to exist outside a universe. But a non energy god would not be limited in the same way, and therefor be higher value.

Also, I never stated that God had created the Universe, that is an assumption that you made.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SpearMint
For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

"Time" as we understand it is just a human construction...

How can you say that without knowing for sure how time works? We observe and we learn, so no, it's not a human construction.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Also, I never stated that God had created the Universe, that is an assumption that you made.

Yes I know but that's what's widely believed.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SpearMint
For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

"Time" as we understand it is just a human construction...

How can you say that without knowing for sure how time works? We observe and we learn, so no, it's not a human construction.

No one knows for sure what time is. Time is created purely on speculation and assumptions on behalf of the Human species.

It isn't really 1:14 AM where i am...as this specific "time" was created by humans. Prehistoric humans never used time as we do today, therefore, time as we know it now is a human construction.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SpearMint
For it to be plausible that God made the universe, God has to be able to exist without time. This is probably dismissed commonly with "he can", but when you understand what time actually is it seems impossible.

"Time" as we understand it is just a human construction...

How can you say that without knowing for sure how time works? We observe and we learn, so no, it's not a human construction.

No one knows for sure what time is. Time is created purely on speculation and assumptions on behalf of the Human species.

It isn't really 1:14 AM where i am...as this specific "time" was created by humans. Prehistoric humans never used time as we do today, therefore, time as we know it now is a human construction.

...

I'm not talking about our numerical representation of time, that's just how we measure it.
I'm talking about time itself.

The 24 hour day is a human creation, time is not.

reply to post by daaskapital


I think the "time" he was referring to was the correlation between space and time, and that space-time does not exist outside a universe. (although I could be wrong)

It could be argued that the Universe is the expansion of space-time itself.
Although one must be careful of the thin grey line between correlation and causation.

reply to post by KingAtlas


Explanation: S&F!

Uhmmm?

Omnipotence is not the 1st place to start IMO because there is no PRESENCE of God yet to even invoke its ALL powerfullness.

Omni = ALL

God/Universe/Cosmos is everywhere aka Immanent and also nowhere aka Transendant at the same time ... see how with Omnipresence I can now invoke just how Omnipotent that is and have it make anykind of sense.

If you want to 'quanitfy' that, I suggest you start with infinity and eternity ... but please, also quikly realize that those things upset people ... and so I suggest that you use PERCENTAGES ... because inifinity is by default 100% and hey presto its a miracle ... OL just quantasized infinity down to a rational and whole number, after that we are into the realm of fractions, ratios and irrational numbers like Pi and Phi.

Personal Disclosure: As for the maths of creation ... here is what I have to come to understand

0% NOT (logic function) = 100% ... and it is that simple ... it is an invertion!

The real world electronic component equivilent would be a normal diode [not an led] which is used to make an electronic inverter ... and so the logical NOT function exists in the real world also.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by daaskapital

 

I think the "time" he was referring to was the correlation between space and time, and that space-time does not exist outside a universe. (although I could be wrong)

It could be argued that the Universe is the expansion of space-time itself.
Although one must be careful of the thin grey line between correlation and causation.

edit on 24-8-2012 by KingAtlas because: forgot an quotation marke, and clarity

Time does not exist, period. The reality is... We experience life as an assembly/ reassembly point - point (e.g. the displays on monitors/ flat screens set to various frame rates). We are a display of vectors while 'digging' streams of consciousness.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Infinity is Zero Sum. It's masked by a myriad series of fractals.

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by daaskapital

 

I think the "time" he was referring to was the correlation between space and time, and that space-time does not exist outside a universe. (although I could be wrong)

It could be argued that the Universe is the expansion of space-time itself.
Although one must be careful of the thin grey line between correlation and causation.

edit on 24-8-2012 by KingAtlas because: forgot an quotation marke, and clarity

Time does not exist, period. The reality is... We experience life as an assembly/ reassembly point - point (e.g. the displays on monitors/ flat screens set to various frame rates). We are a display of vectors while 'digging' streams of consciousness.

If that is true, then time is that "frame rate". Time exists no matter what it's definition is, we can clearly observe it, and we can observe time being slowed as the observer (a watch) increases in speed. We know time exists and we know it's relative.

reply to post by KingAtlas


"Also, I never stated that God had created the Universe, that is an assumption that you made."

what definition of God are you using then?

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by daaskapital

 

I think the "time" he was referring to was the correlation between space and time, and that space-time does not exist outside a universe. (although I could be wrong)

It could be argued that the Universe is the expansion of space-time itself.
Although one must be careful of the thin grey line between correlation and causation.

edit on 24-8-2012 by KingAtlas because: forgot an quotation marke, and clarity

Time does not exist, period. The reality is... We experience life as an assembly/ reassembly point - point (e.g. the displays on monitors/ flat screens set to various frame rates). We are a display of vectors while 'digging' streams of consciousness.

time does not exist? Do you think the energy in this universe had a beginning?/ do you believe in the big bang? or a beginning to the way this universe began constructing?

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Haha yes I know about omnipotence hahaha, I was using it as an expression of the potential power, that would be easily understood haha

I was trying to make this as easy to understand as possible.

I am still trying to work this all out into a usable formula.

Yes I was working on a representation of the infinite/finite possibilities. I have to work out the representations and the order. I was thinking of using a more algorithmic attack and have a base number with a +/- to adjust.

Some Interesting Evidence - Mathematical...Structure / Design

reply to post by ImaFungi


I am using many different ones.

There is no one singular definition of a god for all of earth in all it's course of history.


If you read over the posts you might get a better sense of how I am calculating this.


ETA- Fungi, this isn't a debate on the existence of a god/s, it's more like math fun time.
In the realm of infinite possibilities, you can't discount that in one set of variable a god/s could exist.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by daaskapital

 

I think the "time" he was referring to was the correlation between space and time, and that space-time does not exist outside a universe. (although I could be wrong)

It could be argued that the Universe is the expansion of space-time itself.
Although one must be careful of the thin grey line between correlation and causation.

edit on 24-8-2012 by KingAtlas because: forgot an quotation marke, and clarity

Time does not exist, period. The reality is... We experience life as an assembly/ reassembly point - point (e.g. the displays on monitors/ flat screens set to various frame rates). We are a display of vectors while 'digging' streams of consciousness.

If that is true, then time is that "frame rate". Time exists no matter what it's definition is, we can clearly observe it, and we can observe time being slowed as the observer (a watch) increases in speed. We know time exists and we know it's relative.

What exists/ what we experience is merely perception - time being a paradox. Perception also denotes mental image, so where would you like to take time in the traditional sense? The function of a watch corresponds to levels of motion. Again, no time... Only how energy is being acted on. The Universe is a perpetual 'now' state.