Calling All Veteran Service Members Of ATS.

reply to post by usmc0311


You are right about the recruiters. When I was a senior in High School, I wanted to join the Marines and Gunnery Sgt. Amrine (Like that last name?) was calling me almost every week just to talk. I wanted to keep playing hockey after HS if possible so I asked him if the Marines had a club league or something somewhere so I could play? You can about imagine what he told me and I knew it was BS.
My family had him over for T-Bone steak and I was supposed to sign the papers during supper but the more he sat there sorta kissing my ass, I saw how fake he was and told him I wanted 24 more hrs to think about it.
If he was honest I would have joined. 1 regret Ive always had was not joining the Marines.
Recruiters, just BE honest and real.
I respect those willing to fight for this country. I'd say 100% who enlist, do so with the best intentions and feel they are doing the right thing.
With all the info available, we need to educate the young kids who are considering enlisting today, about the real truth that, these wars are being fought for.
I tried telling my nephew 2 yrs ago about whats really going on, he ignored me then, buy quickly told me I was right and he wishes he would not have enlisted.
You couldn't pay me enough to join today.
I will defend this country along with my fellow Americans when the time comes.
I have totally woken up my local Sheriff's department too. That is who really needs to wake up, the cops.
Sorry for going off topic a lil.

You have a made a life choice to spend your life killing people. What do you think it will accomplish to be part of an army? Countries are pitting humans against humans with the message that "evil" must be defeated, when the only thing being defeated is peace. America are not the "good guys" like its portrayed in all your movies. Its ridiculous once you learn some history or turn off the TV programming and think for yourself.

Fighting for "your" country.... what is that? Have you thought about what part of the country is yours? You probably dont even own your house, the banks usually do.

I would rather die than join organized killers. The suffering you cause is on your karma.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld

You have a made a life choice to spend your life killing people. What do you think it will accomplish to be part of an army? Countries are pitting humans against humans with the message that "evil" must be defeated, when the only thing being defeated is peace. America are not the "good guys" like its portrayed in all your movies. Its ridiculous once you learn some history or turn off the TV programming and think for yourself.

Fighting for "your" country.... what is that? Have you thought about what part of the country is yours? You probably dont even own your house, the banks usually do.

I would rather die than join organized killers. The suffering you cause is on your karma.

edit on 18-8-2012 by PrimitiveWorld because: (no reason given)

I respect your opinion.

It's a damned shame though, that you don't respect ours.

You don't deserve scorn. Perhaps pity.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld

You have a made a life choice to spend your life killing people. What do you think it will accomplish to be part of an army? Countries are pitting humans against humans with the message that "evil" must be defeated, when the only thing being defeated is peace. America are not the "good guys" like its portrayed in all your movies. Its ridiculous once you learn some history or turn off the TV programming and think for yourself.

Fighting for "your" country.... what is that? Have you thought about what part of the country is yours? You probably dont even own your house, the banks usually do.

I would rather die than join organized killers. The suffering you cause is on your karma.

edit on 18-8-2012 by PrimitiveWorld because: (no reason given)

It is often said that soldiers fight to protect their "country" or their "land", which cannot be further from the truth.

As a soldier, I fought for my friends, family, and way of life.

As a veteran, I now look back and see that the wars I fought in were for naught - they did not achieve anything, and they were for, in the larger part, the wrong reason

Would I change my choices (if I could) - no. I stand by my profession as a soldier, and I do not ask for people like you to understand this; you are one of the masses who bleat ineffectively when you are assaulted by the darkness that lives in this world. You cry for mercy when the wolves surround, and you fall to your knees in thanks and supplication when us rough, violent men step in to defend yours, and your families lives.

Yet you're always the first to turn and drive the knife deep in your misguided & uninformed sugar coated views of the world we live in.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld
You have a made a life choice to spend your life killing people. What do you think it will accomplish to be part of an army? Countries are pitting humans against humans with the message that "evil" must be defeated, when the only thing being defeated is peace. America are not the "good guys" like its portrayed in all your movies. It’s ridiculous once you learn some history or turn off the TV programming and think for yourself.

Warfare has been around as long as we have and some people gravitate to it as a profession just like some want to be Doctors or grocers. It’s actually one of the most respected professions only beaten out by nurses last year in the poll.

I have seen more warfare on the planet than I hope you ever have to and in my personal observation we are indeed the good guys. Like ExComando said, no Soldier fights for patriotism or crap like that - we fight for each other so we can return to our families. I'd kill 100 Taliban so any one of my buddies could see his child for the first time. I’d order the JDAM strike…then I’d go back to my hooch and sleep like a baby… I'd give my life for any one of my Soldiers I think they’d do the same for me. Honor is something shared among Soldiers we reserve it for each other the ones who have earned it. It’s not something owed to politicians and ideals – it’s certainly not given to civilians who sit back and complain and opine while having zero perspective of what we actually do. Hint, Al Jazz, Media Matters, MSNBC, CNN and FOX are not real accurate reflections of what goes on in theater.

A Soldier having a conversation about the effects of war with a person who has never prosecuted war is like having a conversation with my 14 year old daughter about life... She is loud and passionate for sure but has no real clue what she is talking about as she has yet to experience even a small taste of it.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld
Fighting for "your" country.... what is that? Have you thought about what part of the country is yours? You probably don’t even own your house, the banks usually do.

It is fairly sad that you think home ownership and only outright home ownership gives one a stake in the country. A country is an ideal, a set of beliefs and the collective of the people who live in it. It has very little to do with actual boarders and absolutely nothing to do with home ownership. Most soldiers do own a home we just have to sell it every 3 years when we get assigned somewhere else.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld
I would rather die than join organized killers. The suffering you cause is on your karma.

That is exactly what will happen to you if you are ever confronted by a threat - I know how to protect my family and property and have no problem in so doing. Karma, Jesus, the Afterlife or whatever pretend friends/concepts help you get through the day hold no sway over my actions. I don't believe in them. If killing creates bad karma I should be living in a refrigerator box begging for money on the street yet I am a very successful businessman. I own (yes own title and deed) 160 acres of land and a dairy. Guess karma missed me because I have definately killed more than my share.

Reading posts like yours don’t make me reflect on my karma they make me feel sad…not for me, or my fellows - but for you. To misquote a fictional character “Forgive him my fellow Soldiers for he knows not what he says...”

This crap has been going on for a long time every were in the world. The troops and police that served in Northern Ireland in the war that never was almost always found it impossible to get jobs, one guy even said it was better to say you were in prison other than say that you were in the army. The goverment wants you to die for them, and when you dont they blame all the evil on you

reply to post by beezzer


thanks beez, i could not have said it better!!

reply to post by ExCommando


i agree, and fully support what you said!
good job ex!!

Originally posted by Starwise
reply to post by usmc0311

 

I really hope it doesn't come down to a Veteran vs Police mentality!!! Scary indeed!!!!!! I need to get more information on this and act.....

OP: What do you plan on writing? I understand the need to write to our reps but what to say....Im in. I may be disabled at an early age, but still know how to write...

As a former 37 myself, ( I retired on April Fool's day...how appropiate ), I have doubts as to the Veteran vs Police mentality as you must remember that CAPOC is made up mainly of Reservists. You know...Cops, Firefighters, Dock Workers, Plumbers, Truck Drivers, etc.

But what you say is a good point. If we don't hear from USMC0311 soon as to example of what he is writing to his Reps, we should U2U him and ask. Of course we would add our own points of view, but a letter campaign with a unified message is a good starting point.

ETA: You do know that PSYOP units are now called MISO, right? Is it soup yet!?

Crap...I'm not recruiting am I? That's against T&C.

Easy Mods, I'm just tossing out a idea.

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by Starwise
reply to post by usmc0311

 

I really hope it doesn't come down to a Veteran vs Police mentality!!! Scary indeed!!!!!! I need to get more information on this and act.....

OP: What do you plan on writing? I understand the need to write to our reps but what to say....Im in. I may be disabled at an early age, but still know how to write...

As a former 37 myself, ( I retired on April Fool's day...how appropiate

), I have doubts as to the Veteran vs Police mentality as you must remember that CAPOC is made up mainly of Reservists. You know...Cops, Firefighters, Dock Workers, Plumbers, Truck Drivers, etc.

But what you say is a good point. If we don't hear from USMC0311 soon as to example of what he is writing to his Reps, we should U2U him and ask. Of course we would add our own points of view, but a letter campaign with a unified message is a good starting point.

ETA: You do know that PSYOP units are now called MISO, right? Is it soup yet!?

Crap...I'm not recruiting am I? That's against T&C.

Easy Mods, I'm just tossing out a idea.

edit on 18-8-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)

Well I deffinitely going to include my disaproval of NDAA, The DHS Assesment, as well as the standard of medical care for all veterans. I plan on also adressing the fact that veterans are being demonized as well as the fast and furious scandal. I will post a copy here when I get it finished(probably later this week) and maybe we can all bounce ideas around and come up with something everyone could base theirs off of. There is so much I want to say maybe I will write multiple letters.

ZAlso something that popped into my mind last night while reading about the Marine detained for facebook posts> We should all have a contingency person who could log in and let ATS know if anyone get's hauled away so that the good people here could dig to the bottom of it right away. If I ever get hauled off someone would be on very quickly to let people know. Anyway, just a thought.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld

You have a made a life choice to spend your life killing people. What do you think it will accomplish to be part of an army? Countries are pitting humans against humans with the message that "evil" must be defeated, when the only thing being defeated is peace. America are not the "good guys" like its portrayed in all your movies. Its ridiculous once you learn some history or turn off the TV programming and think for yourself.

Fighting for "your" country.... what is that? Have you thought about what part of the country is yours? You probably dont even own your house, the banks usually do.

I would rather die than join organized killers. The suffering you cause is on your karma.

edit on 18-8-2012 by PrimitiveWorld because: (no reason given)

A lot of my fellow soldiers here have given you quite the expansive view of their experience. Suffice to say that I do not care to do this. I made up my mind, and as you said I made a choice.

At the end of the day I am a grown man. I make my choices and I have to live with both the fruits and consequences of those choices. Your capricious and self-aggrandizing speech on the profession of a soldier is inconsequential at best, at worst it is a childish attempt to change reality, to change the nature of man, to change the necessity of people like me and replace it with people like you who would roll over at the first sign of danger in the name of "peace".

Peace is an illusion. It does not exist anywhere in the universe. From atoms smashing together to tornadoes tearing through Midwest neighborhoods. The acts of warfare are simply acts of nature no different then those mentioned previously. You'd be stupid not to prepare for them. But since you don't want to, I do. The men and women who wear a uniform will do it for you.

That's the point. We fight so you don't have to.

reply to post by TDawgRex

( I retired on April Fool's day...how appropiate

LMAO, I JOINED on April Fools Day, I guess the joke was on me lol

ExCommando:

Thanks for your reply. So you went abroad to attack several countries, causing millions of civilian people to flee from their homes, tens of thousands to get killed, children growing up without parents or with birth defects because of poisons and bombings, because you are protecting your friends, family and way of life. Doesnt that sound a bit insane to you?


Golf66:

I know the military is respected in the United States because you are hugely patriotic to the degree that after 9/11, people who disagreed with the official story were called traitors for not supporting what the president said. It was unpatriotic to not support the wars too. And I find that sad and depressing.

Like ExCommando, you say you fight for your family so my answer to him goes for you too. And when you say you would kill 100 "taliban" so your buddy can come home, I feel only sadness. Because you dont understand who your "talibans" is. Most of them are civilians. Most of them have family. And most of them dont want to fight the United States, but you went there and started killing them.

You claim that because I have not been in a war, I am unable to understand it. What if I understand it better because I have not? I have not been programmed with beliefs that makes you carry out the actions of your commanders without question or hesitation. I question if killing people will bring peace. And to me, thats a more healthy view than someone who is inside it all, because you dont see the forest for all the trees.


projectvxn:

Like the previous soldiers, you share their mindset that the nature of man makes it necessary to have wars. That war leads to peace, or at least allows you to kill the assigned amount of humans so you are allowed to go home to your family.

You guys are very similar in your mindsets, and that is why you are good soldiers. And Im sure I seem quite weird and stupid to you, because you just dont see that your actions, in the grand scheme of things, are causing a massive amount of pain for so many humans on the planet.

Good luck getting attitudes to change .... went through all that after 4 tours in vietnam with S.O.G ... only advice can give is either get good at lying or leave that cesspool of a country ...

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld. And when you say you would kill 100 "taliban" so your buddy can come home, I feel only sadness. Because you dont understand who your "talibans" is. Most of them are civilians. Most of them have family. And most of them dont want to fight the United States, but you went there and started killing them.

The Taliban fighters are warriors - just like me. They fight well and hard. I respect them as a foe but have no doubt they are not victims they are oppressors which will again become plain to the world as soon as we leave....

We went there because they allowed ALQ to train there and gave them a safe harbor. Don't want to die don't hide the bad guys - easy. Hide a murderer in your basement and what happens? Police will consider you an accomplice right?

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld. I have not been programmed with beliefs that makes you carry out the actions of your commanders without question or hesitation.

LOL you watch too many movies and don't know much about Special Operations obviously - I question every order I am given very thoroughly. Because if I don't I know the very men who gave it to me will use that against me should it go wrong and we get compromised somehow. Special Operators are not automatons we are given wide latitude because of our training and selection process. I don't carry out orders (Infantry Privates carry out orders) I accomplish an intent with a very wide lattitude on how and when.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld.
I question if killing people will bring peace. And to me, thats a more healthy view than someone who is inside it all, because you dont see the forest for all the trees.

Killing people might not bring "peace" as you see it but for me in my little area of influence killing people means 10 year old girls don't get burned to death because they can't fight off their rapist uncle - people's crops don't get burned for letting their daughter go to school. I know exactly who the Taliban are... more than 3 years I lived in that country.

Originally posted by PrimitiveWorld.
You guys are very similar in your mindsets, and that is why you are good soldiers. And I’m sure I seem quite weird and stupid to you, because you just dont see that your actions, in the grand scheme of things, are causing a massive amount of pain for so many humans on the planet.

You don't seem weird or stupid to me just naive. Again, having a discussion about war especially the Afghanistan conflict with someone who has never seen it or participated in it is fruitless – we lack a common frame of reference.

ETA: I may disagree with everything you say but I'd lace up my boots and fight to the death if someone - anyone made a serious attempt to take that right away from you. Which I think is exactly why the point the OP was making - the government fears us for that reason alone. They know we are men of action not words... I can't wait for the day my daughter becomes able to fend for herself in life - I intend to transfer everything I own to her name and that way if I have to fight the “man” she at least will have something. Until that time I will wait and bite the bullet.

Cheers...

reply to post by PrimitiveWorld


The major and obvious flaw in your logic is that it ignores the very real and verifiable fact that the world isn't filled with Unicorns, Rainbows and Sunshine with people sitting cross legged around campfires singing kumbaya

There are bad people in the world. Sometimes [Not always or even in most cases] War is the last logical and necessary step.

Which IS unfortunate.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by PrimitiveWorld

 

The major and obvious flaw in your logic is that it ignores the very real and verifiable fact that the world isn't filled with Unicorns, Rainbows and Sunshine with people sitting cross legged around campfires singing kumbaya

WOW this needs a graphic!



Hope you don't mind....I think this sums it up in a photo.

reply to post by Golf66


I see a new avatar in my future

reply to post by SLAYER69


32nd one today?

Come on, you take this too serious bro.

The extent of the damage done correlates directly to the ability of people to believe the lies. Who knows, maybe the people will see us as pioneers.