This Awesome Feature Could Improve the Quality of Virtually Every New ATS Thread and Post!

Many ATS members are very serious about their accounts, they work hard to establish mutual trust and create a reputable online persona. Checking how many ATS Points, Flags, Applause, and Stars earned is a way to guage your account's general health.

Race car drivers are constantly checking all the factors that go into making sure their vehicle, pit-crew, and public relations are operating at optimum levels. The drivers make testing runs and then return to the pit, where they go over all the diagnostic data gathered during the track testing session.

Any race team will tell you that constant awareness of statistical data is absolutely crucial in order to function at the highest level of competition.

Similarities can be found between how serious members treat their ATS account and how Race Car teams operate. If we want to put the effort in to make our accounts function at the top of our ability, doesn't it stand to reason we should be aware of our account's statistical performance?

I think it does and it would be awesome if ATS would unveil a new feature for the members to study. This new feature could improve the quality of each member's own threads and all ATS threads in general.

You may ask, 'What kind of feature could be interactive in such way it could help improve member threads and ATS threads in general'?

I believe the answer is a statistical summary for each individual thread. These stats could be grouped together on one 'Statistical Summary' page, providing all members an opportunity to see the overall performance of each thread.

The statistics could be based on many different aspects, such as;

Flags (Obviously)

OP Stars (Obviously again)

Ratio of Flagsosts

Ratio of Starsosts

Total Number of Thread Views

Total Number of Member Replies

Ratio of Thread Views:Member Replies

Average Number of Thread Views per Hour

Average Number of Member Posts per Hour

Average Number of Flags per Hour

Average Number of Stars per Hour (including stars on all member replies)

The Top 3 Members Whose Combined Posts have Garnered the Most Stars in the Whole Thread (Ex. BeanPole Kitten Contributed 12 posts with a Combined 97 stars)

The Top 3 Member Posts that have Garnered the Most Stars Individually
(Ex. BeanPole Kitten Contributed a Post that Received 48 Stars)

The Top 3 Members Who have Contributed the Highest Number of Total, In-Thread Posts (Ex. BeanPole Kitten Contributed the Most to this Thread w/ 21 Posts)

Average Number of Words in Each Member Post

The Time of Day When the Thread Received the Most Activity

The Time of Day When the Thread Received the Least Activity

Number of Comments Made in Reply to Previous Member Posts

Average Amount of Elapsed Time Between Each New Post (based on a 6, 12, 18, 24 or 48 hour window)


I'm certain many more ATS members can think of some statistical information you'd like to see compiled on each thread.

In my mind's eye, I see the 'Thread Statistical Summary' page set-up and utilized as a critical diagnostic tool.

I believe when used properly and frequently, a feature like this could really help raise the bar to a much higher level of quality in all ATS Posts, Threads, and Forums across the board.

It would allow each member the ability to criticize themselves in private.

I know there are members out there who don't realize where the fault in their threads are, others who don't realize there are any faults at all, and still more who realize there may be 'in-thread' errors, but are too shy to ask for suggestions from their ATS peers - I know these different types of members are on ATS, because I am one of them myself.

Studying a thread-specific, statistical compilation could alert us to the areas that we need to work on the most, in order to produce a more compelling and coherent thread.

Comparing the statistical performance of several threads from the same member could identify any common theme that may be present and could provide just the right feedback to help correct any recurring issues.

I think it would be kinda cool to see the quality of our threads change as we use the
statistical data to improve our writing and communication skills individually, and as a complete membership.

What do you boys & girls think?

Do you have any ideas for a statistical category you'd like to see implemented on ATS?

to be honest, if you're posting on ATS to get flags and stars etc, you're probably here for the wrong reason. IMO ats would do better without them and the star/flag/accolade farmers it engenders. it just leads to big egos, that usually get banned, the "i have a zillion flags and stars! i'm your most important contributor! i bring you so much traffic!" sort. they still get banned.

to my mind, ats is about learning about the world and it's people. Seeing strange and new things, talking to strange people. and discussing all this in an adult and safe venue.

so my counter feature would be to remove flags/stars/and any other ego boosting features like the WATS index.

Personally I, and many others, find there to be an over reliance on stars and flags as is. I've mentioned a number of times now that people treating ATS more like a game trying to get the high score. So instead of people posting things that are actually interesting and doing lots of research they're putting out rapid fire posts that hit on those topics that consistently garner high flags. I think by giving people more stats to track will just exacerbate this. People need to stop worrying about stars and flags and instead start focusing on producing the threads that they would want to read.

I have to say it's amazing how a lot of ATS members try to act like they're better than what they term "sheeple" but they get focused on the same things. They get distracted by doom & gloom and political bickering. It doesn't matter what the evidence supporting the OP is as long as it is politically inflammatory or includes a promise of death it will get posts and flags.

Personally you could take all the stars, flags and smiley face stickers and toss them.
I grew up years ago and left the smiley faces in 2nd grade.

I could care less about any of that, i come here to learn, read and interact with some great minds,
and try to tip toe around the ones that need a padded room and nice white jacket.

As far as star's and flag's and all that, i dont pay attention to them at all. The knowledge and
insight that is presented here is much more meaningful.

reply to post by optimus primal


well... I think you may have completely missed the point of the thread...

Flags and stars are good indicators of the quality posts and/or threads each member is creating.

If there is going to be a star system that reflects the quality of content authored by the members, then the information the stars and flags offer should be used to the fullest extent possible.

Posting for stars or flags can be easily done, with sentationalistic title's and fringe content. In those cases the flags and stars awarded may not be an accurate guage of the content quality.

PPosting replies and threads in a consistent manner would produce a more accurate model of member skill and literary construct skills.

So,again, if there are going to be stars and flags wouldn't it stand to reason that their information be used to the fullest extent?

Adding a feature similar to the subject of the OP would serve to improve the quality of member posts and threads across the board.

reply to post by SkepticExterminator


Maybe I should edit the OP, because the thread is not to suggest that people post in such a way to gain stars or flags. Anyone can be slightly deceitful and post sensationalistic titles and threads.

The point is that members who are genuinely posting and authoring threads they feel are deserving of a place on ATS could use the statistics page to evolve their writing and information presentation styles, becoming a better author and improving their presentations and debate skills.

Not sure if any of you guys can tell, but if you look at my stars:post ratio and you can probably tell that I am no star or flag hoarder. I do know I could use the information available in a statistics page as a tool to improve my writing skills and convey my message in a better way that would be appealing to a bigger group of members

Originally posted by severdsoul
I grew up years ago and left the smiley faces in 2nd grade

haha!... didn't you just say the exact same thing on someone else's thread several minutes ago?


Edit to add:

That's funny, I thought I saw this nearly identical reply on a very recent thread...

Previous Post

Walmart has lots of star's in the girl's section with the fake fingernails. lol j/k

seriously though, i never pay attention to stars of flags or any of that crud, im here to
read, learn and interact, i left the smiley face stickers in about 2nd grade.

Anyway, thanks for the opinion, I think I will work on rewriting this thread, since no one seems to understand the point I am trying to make.... one last attempt before strong edit on OP;

Stars and Flags can be seen as a guage of how the thread or post is performing. Using the statistics relevant to these features in such a way that enables each member to understand where they need to work on their skills to become a more coherent presenter/author/debater.

Any change in the amount of stars or flags seen after tweaking with the statistical information could also be an indicator of what changes are working well and which ones are not.... since you will either get stars, flags, etc., or not, based on contribution quality, doesn't it seem logical to get the most use out of the information they provide?

Horrifying ideas to me. I already find the flags and stars and points to be unimportant and anything that seems like competition should be avoided. To further complicate it is too much for me, it would be a headache. I find having colors around posts to be a nuisance too. When you are used to sailing in and out, and like low key approach, to see your post surrounded by color makes me wonder if that puts you on a list for the secret service to monitor. So please don't ask for this extra stuff.

Originally posted by esteay812


Flags and stars are good indicators of the quality posts and/or threads each member is creating.

If there is going to be a star system that reflects the quality of content authored by the members, then the information the stars and flags offer should be used to the fullest extent possible.

(everything you're about to read is just my opinion alone. Take it for what it is worth)

That isn't what the star and flag system is for. It is for other member to show appreciation for the content they are reading. The quality of that content has absolutely no bearing on what is or isn't flagged and starred. I've seen the most inane, stupid posts get dozens of stars and the most well though out, sourced and presented ones get nothing except for what I had given them. I've seen threads have the exact same thing with flags happen. I could probably link you three or four dozen off the top of my head with little or no thought.

Posting for stars or flags can be easily done, with sentationalistic title's and fringe content. In those cases the flags and stars awarded may not be an accurate guage of the content quality.

Happens all the time. As a straight up metric of quality, the Flag and star system isn't very reliable.

PPosting replies and threads in a consistent manner would produce a more accurate model of member skill and literary construct skills.

Not getting what you mean. You aren't saying quantity over quality but you are at the same time with your OP.

The information you're looking for can only be provided by SO, as this board is basically custom designed by him. Member ideas have been taken on board before and implemented but this sounds like an awful lot of coding work to make happen. It isn't an out of the box web forum with many of these stats already providied by the servers and the service that built the software. We use to have thread views available at one point since I have been here but it was removed and I don't suspect we will see them again any time soon if at all.

If we were all thinking rational adults in some alternate utopian reality.. the flags would work perfectly. The concept is really good.. a little manipulative, but good. The forum I mod has something very similar... and among "educated professional adults", its the same.. like an obsession. Unfortunately the flags here work very similar to the stars on ebay as well... it creates an insanity in some and some misuse it. Its usually a good gauge of the nutballness of this community at times when you consider the content of the threads with the highest flags and posts with the most stars at tiimes.
Your proposals boggled the mind here. I mean personally I dont care one way or the other about the flags and stuff, I sure love the comments and conversations though. I mean we all want recognition and to be understood.. and some have an unhealthy need for approval... but damn. All that mess to worry about.. Im not in favor of it.

Originally posted by esteay812
Flags and stars are good indicators of the quality posts and/or threads each member is creating.

Just what do you base that on?

I would say some of the time the highly flagged threads/starred posts just show people will click on any bit of rubbish that they agree with. - Just look at how many highly flagged posts are put in the hoax forum as they are just hoaxes!

reply to post by Advantage


Yep, it could seem like a lot of things to consider and I wouldn't mean for something to be injected onto the members as something they have to deal with. Instead, have it there to use it if you want.

I don't think it would be difficult to implement something that would show the general stats of a thread, on a thread to thread basis.

There is a large diversity of intellect on a board like this and a diverse way to express our individual areas of intelligence (as you can tell my intellect works well in the 'Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader' forum.

Using the statistics I mentioned earlier wouldn't be solely for increasing the quality of ATS threads and post, but increasing the quality of social interaction skills through writing in general. As the areas that need work are exposed, a member could work on them and see improvement in many aspects of their life outside ATS.



GAOTU:

Yes, I understand that the flag/star system is not designed to operate in the way I am describing. It is in place to acknowledge efforts and telling the author you like it...

Even though this is not debateable - it's hard to debate the truth, but suprisingly, we see it a lot on the net - a product of the flag and star system are the statistics they create. Those statistics, like statistics found in many different apects of life, could be used to guage progress and identify areas that are lacking.

The main idea I have is that having these stats available would help with understanding how to construct successful articles and threads. If enough people used it for this there would probably be a shift in the quality of threads and posts on ATS - or anywhere else these strengthened skills might be put to use.

reply to post by spoor


(Edit) I am basing it off the idea that those who would benefit from the information would be members who have no agenda of collecting flags and stars as a sign of superiority. The accolades they gain would be based on their true efforts and the stars/flags they receive would be a more accurate representation of how their presentations truly make their ATS peers feel.

Yes, I agree with that spoor. If there were a statistics page available, I am sure there would also be those people who would want to set records as the highest Insert stat name here ever.

The same thing would go for them that goes for those who create the outrageously provocative titles that trick people to entering a thread or any of the other antics used to score stars and flags.

A statistics compilation would only be useful to those who are using it properly. Someone who is doing their best to post and author threads and they feel like they could do better, but don't know where to start or what to work on would benefit from a feature like this. Since the contributions they make are genuine and the stars/flags and other stats relative to their work reflect that honesty, a good picture of where they could use work may emerge.

Anyone who would use a feature like this for anything else would only be defeating the purpose of having the information available... for those who wouldn't use the feature for anything, the statistics would become trivial.

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by optimus primal

 

well... I think you may have completely missed the point of the thread...

Flags and stars are good indicators of the quality posts and/or threads each member is creating.

I think that is not a justifiable statement - they are certainly a measure of POULARITY - how many people generally agree - but quality requires some sort of measure as to what constitutes quality, and what is high/low quality - and ATS has nothing like that.

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by Advantage

 

Using the statistics I mentioned earlier wouldn't be solely for increasing the quality of ATS threads and post, but increasing the quality of social interaction skills through writing in general. As the areas that need work are exposed, a member could work on them and see improvement in many aspects of their life outside ATS.

edit on 15-8-2012 by esteay812 because: insert name

AHAH! Right there. Now you and I might use it as a tool to better ourselves or our communication skills.. but unfortunately, thats not the majority. You cant even express an opinion or politely disagree without someone wigging out on you here most of the time! Now Im totally in agreement with you.. Id use something like that I suppose.. but not many would I dont think.

i think the flag system is really good. and i like to get stars but i dont think thats a good system.

i'm sure i had something really insightful to say here, but my mind whent blank mid-post.
oh yeah i like race cars.

Personally getting a lot of stars or flags can cut both ways... Either they can mean you've made an excellent point or they can mean that you're firmly planted in the herd and are being a good little citizen. I've experienced both realizations and it helps me to better educate and moderate my own thinking.

Some of my stupidist posts have tons of stars and some of my proudest posts lay bare - to this day.

Just think of it all as a means of judging where your thoughts stand in comparison to others - and then decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

My .02 cents at least.

~Heff

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Hello Aloysius hope you are well.

Yes, I do agree that many times the star and flag system can reflect member popularity in a way. I do not let it effect me, at least not consciously, haha..

I guess I think that a combination of different stats could give a more accurate representation of how each particular thread is performing, relative to other threads.

I also kinda think that many things come out in the wash. I mean, if a thread is not good, but the member gets several flags or stars based on reputation alone, they won't receive more flags from those who won't give out flags like candy.

On the other hand, someone who is not getting flags for popularity will probably get a more accurate idea of how their thread is truly perfoming.

If someone wanted to see a true indicator of what they are given based on quality content, they may be convinced to avoid getting flags and stars on popularity alone. Then again, maybe not.

Those who don't need it would not have to use it, but it waould be available if needed. Personally, I wouldn't want it to be a big deal, like a new forum or something that automatically displays on every thread. I imagine it being a feature available in a drop down menu for each thread - or maybe it could be represented with an icon, near the 'flag' 'un-flag' button.

Either way, it is good to see everyone's opinion on the idea and even what is thought of the current star/flag system... how long ago was it that there was a color coded contribution indicator on everyones mini-profile? It seems like that type of stuff was changing every few weeks a couple years ago.