Chinese Swimmers at London 2012

In this Olympics in particular, there seem to be a lot of Chinese swimmers in particular who are producing "amazing" and "unheard of" results "never seen before".

Could it be that the Chinese have discovered some sort of performance enhancer that isn't detectable under regular drug testing?

UK media is also reporting that the Chinese officials are conducting "hundreds" of drug tests on their own athletes outside the bounds of the regular games drug testing, it's almost like they're making sure that whatever they're doing isn't showing up on regular testing.

A friend of mine who is a gym rat tells me that there is a new technique on the market that makes your brain neurons fire just like if you had taken steroids, but it isn't steroids and wouldn't show up on drug tests, forget what he called it.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

It's possible that all countries, even the US, are doing this. Olympic gold brings in lots of money, not to mention the bragging rights of being best in the world. So, countries around the world will do their best to ensure they come out on top.

It wouldn't surprise me.

Part of the reason I got away from competitive swimming is that the expectations for constant improvement through puberty and young adulthood are extremely stressful.

It's common among most individual sports to see the next speedsuit or energy drink or practice routines being touted as the product system to guarantee success. When corporate sponsors are devoting research into these products, they desire results. Add corporate sponsorship as another expectation for improvement, and it's no wonder that athletes bombarded by sports science seek a competitive edge, especially one which breaks no rules.

Maybe you should refer to this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A lifetime of intensive, insane training seems plausible enough for me, no need for miracle drugs.

err, i didnt hear anyone claiming that micheal phelps was using anything 4 years ago in bejing.
and that was in china. no one from the chinese team questioned mr phelps' stunning achievement.
but because theres some improvement in the chinese team, they're using perfomance enhancing drugs?
i could say sour grapes
yes they've broken some world records, but didnt phelps too?
phelps has 18 gold medals in olympic games, 22 in all. 18 gold medals!!!!!
now if he was chinese you can be sure as hell that everyone would be whispering "drugs"

Originally posted by SecretKnowledge
err, i didnt hear anyone claiming that micheal phelps was using anything 4 years ago in bejing.
and that was in china. no one from the chinese team questioned mr phelps' stunning achievement.
but because theres some improvement in the chinese team, they're using perfomance enhancing drugs?
i could say sour grapes

My thoughts exactly.

I felt quite bad for that Chinese 16 year old when the US coach threw his teddy out of the pram because she blew the rest out of the water. So many world records have been broken this games, and as has been said, Phelps gets gold at most events he does but no-one whinges about him taking drugs.

CX.

reply to post by SecretKnowledge


i think a major part of the suspicion is that the Chinese Swimmer, Ye Shiwen, smashed her own personal best by 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a large chunk of time in the world of professional swimming. most results and records are measured in fractions of seconds.

in statistical analysis, this 5 second better result, in comparison with her Mean time at the event, is called an Outlier. Outliers are often cause for further inspection, irregardless of the particular data set.


Michael Phelps has always been a beast... consistently crushing records. it is no great surprise that he wins lots of medals.

Ye Shiwen's achievement came from seemingly nowhere. it is an anomaly.

i am not accusing this athlete of any wrong doing... i am just saying that Outliers are dubious and curious and warrant further inspection.

cheers.

reply to post by mythos


It's true, but when they were interviewing Ian Thorpe, he reminded everyone that she is only 16 years old, and these type of huge improvements are much more likely to happen when the athlete is very young like she is.

What if she's perfected a technique of some sort or just has a perfectly efficient body type for that type of swim? I think until we know she's done something wrong, we should celebrate the talent.

Usain Bolt busted up the 100m record by like 0.25 seconds a few years ago and he's been constantly tested as clean. 'Outliers' don't all deserve to be treated with skepticism, imo...

reply to post by SecretKnowledge


"Several physical attributes particularly suit Phelps to swimming: his long, thin torso offers low drag; his arms span 6 feet 7 inches (201 cm)—disproportionate to his height of 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm)—and act as long, propulsive paddles; his relatively short legs lower drag, and perhaps add the speed enhancement of a hydrofoil; his size-14 feet provide the effect of flippers; and his hypermobile ankles can extend beyond the pointe of a ballet dancer, enabling him to whip his feet as if they were fins for maximum thrust through the water."
Wikipedia- this is why micheal phelps won so many medals and was so fast. He was of optimum design for swimming.

"During the 2008 Olympics Phelps was questioned by the press as to whether perhaps his feats were "too good to be true", a reference to unsupported rumors that Phelps might be taking performance enhancing drugs.[180][181] In response, Phelps noted that he had signed up for Project Believe, a project by the United States Anti-Doping Agency in which U.S. Olympians can volunteer to be tested in excess of the World Anti-Doping Agency guidelines.[182] During the Games, Phelps passed all nine tests that were administered to him."
Wikipedia- the guy was tested for performance enhancing drugs, and his performance wa questioned

reply to post by tagasbob11


to be clear... i am no Olympian nut, and feel the spectacle of it all is a bit much. but i do admire peek athleticism, and enjoy a dose of healthy competition at its highest level.

point is, i've got no horse in this race.

that being said, here is what i am perceiving in the hoopla of it all...

firstly;
Usain Bolt's .25 (a quarter of a second) differential is, albeit an impressive improvement on the prior record, and yet it is still a far smaller improvement than Ye Shiwen's.


before i paraphrase facts any longer, here is the best article i've come upon, which raises legitimate questions without entering into any "Witch hunt" territory:

www.guardian.co.uk...


here is a quote from the above article:

"If you look at the woman in question, and her biomechanics in the heats, she has a steady, moderately slow, six-beat kick," Leonard said, referring to the number of kicks Ye takes with each arm stroke. "All of a sudden in the Olympic final she turned it up to an eight-beat kick, which any coach will tell you is very difficult to maintain for 25m, much less 100m."



these folks are professionals, and can detect the subtle nuance shifts of a racer.


anyhow, this Leonard fellow also remarked on another Chinese Medalist: Sun.

"Sun's curve of improvement", Leonard reckons, "is well within the trajectory of the sport".



that is my point... improvement is one thing, but it usually occurs within a noted trajectory. Yu Shiwen beat her pervious best time by a whopping 5 seconds and in less one year. that is an astonishing feat, in and of itself, irregardless of the fact that the time for her last lap also happened to exceed Ryan Lochte's own time in the same stroke!

Olympian Gods bless her. i am not skeptical... just curious. Outliers do that to me, every time. they are the Anomalies of life, which i find most intriguing. but whatever deep well Yu Shiwen tapped into to give her the power to achieve her goal, bless her for it.

Originally posted by babybunnies
In this Olympics in particular, there seem to be a lot of Chinese swimmers in particular who are producing "amazing" and "unheard of" results "never seen before".

Could it be that the Chinese have discovered some sort of performance enhancer that isn't detectable under regular drug testing?

UK media is also reporting that the Chinese officials are conducting "hundreds" of drug tests on their own athletes outside the bounds of the regular games drug testing, it's almost like they're making sure that whatever they're doing isn't showing up on regular testing.

A friend of mine who is a gym rat tells me that there is a new technique on the market that makes your brain neurons fire just like if you had taken steroids, but it isn't steroids and wouldn't show up on drug tests, forget what he called it.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

The tests you mention are most likely check ups to keep whatever tech they know about intact, and optimal. People often say the same thing about Swiss tennis players...that there's something in the water etc.... Maybe, maybe not. What do we know about the human body, anyway?

Agassi found that speed was the key, and he got away with it. It sickened me to watch him play, as he single handedly ruined the game. And his back.

I'm sure there are many enhancements that can fly under the radar. Bath salts, maybe.

I could see this going either way to be honest, and no that's not just because Team GB is having an off year in the pool.

One one hand, Chinese athletes undergo some of the most intense training on earth, and with a country with their population to draw upon you are likely to have some exceptional people in almost every sport. Add to this that many of the United States' and Australian's technological advances in swimming have been deemed unfair advantages (such as the full-body suits in men's swimming,) It has been a breakout year for many countries that have not been contenders before.

On the other hand, China is a communist nation with a totalitarian party in control. In the past we've seen some of the worst substance abuses come from those nations, anyone remember East Germany?

The constant physical testing could be part of China's obsessive perfectionism, or something more. They do have a very advanced biochemical industry. It's up in the air. As for Phelps, he's built for swimming, take a look at his proportions: longer arms and torso, shorter legs. He's a machine. However, his success follows the standard performance curve. He consistently got better up to the 2008 Olympics, where he had his peak, and has been slowly declining ever since. He is still fantastic, but he's on his way out, and chose a very good time to retire too before the decline became too pronounced.

reply to post by mythos


I get what you're saying, and I have no problem with her being tested to fullest extent possible, but I think there are such things as great feats of strength and athleticism.

There was a news story just a few days ago of a woman lifting a car of her father

Link

Is it possible that this girl has the ability to reach for that 'switch' without such a traumatic experience? Could it be that she trains with a 6 beat stroke to not wear herself out, but is capable of going at 8 in competition?

I don't have a horse in the race either (canadian) but I think until it's shown that she did something wrong, we should respect the result, imo...

I agree to respect the result until proven otherwise. However, the second her time came up, I was shocked. I've been a competitive swimmer for the vast majority of my life. 5 seconds in swimming is a HUGE time frame. As someone has already mentioned, she is 16 and this is the easiest time for her to crush some of her old records. However, for her to swim just as fast as Ryan Lotche did is either amazing or enhance by something else. Men on a while swim faster than woman, and the Chinese typically do not have a body type that is an advantage in the pool. If she is 100% clean, which she very well could be, she has the ability to be the next Micheal Phelps.