New Law in North Carolina Bans Latest Scientific Predictions of Sea-Level Rise

Originally posted by charles1952
So, everybody is assuming that the predictions are accurate? There is some controversy on the point. I assume the legislature weighed the costs and benefits of using, or not using the predictions for their future decisions. It looks like they came to a decision.

Wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But not clearly stupid or impossible.

edit on 3-8-2012 by charles1952 because: correction of words.

Sea level has been and continues to rise.
No dispute on that.

We ARE still warming from an Ice age. The Ice goes into the ocean. The warmer water is "Bigger" than the colder water. Molecules move faster. Water expands. Sea levels rise. This will not be a linear process either. Some squared term is in this equation. It's unclear where the curve really kicks in, but it's a self feeding fire.

It's not hard to see what is happening. As for some inside info.. They have spent millions trying to rebuild from the erosion that is happening. The dunes are faded majorly. Those Barrier islands (big sand bars) are not stable.
As long as people don't figure it out to quick, much money is still here to be made.

History isn't kind to the side that bans
scientific findings.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

The headline is a little misleading. they are not banning predictions of sea level rise. They can, and are, published all over the place. This has nothing to do with property values.

The state is simply saying that these predictions are so speculative that they will not use them in their planning.

Read to me where I said or thought they banned predictions.
Property value would fall based on different planning.
As of right now you can still build all over the place. My grandpa built a lot of it.
I am from here and my family used to own about 20 properties on the beach.
I have seen the beaches change. This IS about money.

I don't think the sea level is rising...but if it is...it's Obama's fault.

I better stock up on that chick fil A stuff!

reply to post by olaru12


I'm starring you because I think you're clever. We now have two extreme sides to the issue, joking or not, woot!

reply to post by Dustytoad

Dear Dustytoad,

It seems there's been a misunderstanding.

Read to me where I said or thought they banned predictions.

I didn't say you did. I said the headline was misleading, not you.

The headline is a little misleading. they are not banning predictions of sea level rise.

The reason I said that is that buyers and sellers still have full access to any predictions they want.

Property value would fall based on different planning.

I've always thought that zoning and building permits were done at the local level, beyond the reach of the state.

Just a small point, what would you want state government to do, that this bill prevents?

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Myomistress
and now they're ignoring factual data on sea level rise just because they can't afford to take precautions.

Regardless of whether this stupid, they are doing the exact opposite. They are ignoring NON factual esimates and saying only factual historical data can be used. As in rather than go on what some group says will happen in the next 10 years, they will look at the trend of the past 10 years and see what has happened and only base their actions on those trends. I believe this law sunsets in 4 years.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Anything speculative they've been handed already does use data from the past 10 years (and probably further back). That's how these sorts of studies are made.

reply to post by charles1952


They will also probably not use them in property value assessment either. I don't blame them.

Originally posted by cetaphobic
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Anything speculative they've been handed already does use data from the past 10 years (and probably further back). That's how these sorts of studies are made.

The speculation includes a lot of other data that is not historical. I am not saying the speculation is wrong, I am simply saying it is not exactly fact based. Using historical data is fact based, and may lead to similar conclusions as the speculation. Or it may not.

So what do you go with, just the facts, or facts and speculation? They chose just the facts, we will see if it comes back to haunt them.

ETA: They chose just the facts per the law, I would not at all be surprised that they ignore the historical data.

reply to post by cetaphobic


It's not as pathetic as the number of people that will jump onto threads like this around the internet and defend the bad law.

Anyone know much about real estate? I would be interested if anyone would be able to find out if people like Gore own a lot of ocean front property. Pushing trumped up predictions to lower property values, so he can buy more and develop it? I wouldn't put it past people like him. Never let a good disaster go to waste and all that good stuff

As a person who absolutely, and vehemently, denies man-made climate change I find this to be a gross over step of power. Maybe the sea levels are rising, I certainly haven't looked into it to find out as I believe that the earth constantly changes all the time due to the SUN.

But I am not here to argue that, so please don't respond calling me names or defending your particular view of climate change. I concede that most likely the planet is warming up, but like I said I believe it is because of the sun.

But that is irrelevant if we are to stay on topic. The government has no business doing things like this. All I can think of is WHATS NEXT WHATS NEXT WHATS NEXT. Geeze.... conservatives and liberals alike always trying to push their beliefs on people in the form of laws. So sickening.

reply to post by theroguelion


Government IS people. People have opinions and try to force them on others.

That being said, I'd bet that the law was sponsored by politicians that get a crapload of money from big oil and others who "benefit" from denying the planet is warming.

reply to post by TKDRL


It doesn't work like that.

reply to post by Dustytoad

I am from Chapel Hill, and that is an island of it's own. A non judgmental "liberal" island..

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaa!!! Non judgmental? Try being the kid in high school that actually thought hunting was okay, people should be able to smoke if they want to, and that guns weren't going to turn people in to maniacal maniacs over night. If you weren't a die hard socialist, an anarchist poser, post Americanist, new ager, or a "true liberal" life was far from fun. You had to search for friends from other areas.

With all it's "budda beans" and racism. Churches, and what are "the gays" doing??

That is rural living almost anywhere you go. The funny thing is, people that move here from NYC, Boston, and Phillie always tell me how open and integrated things are by comparison. Even the ones that live in Durham, Sanford, Greensboro, High Point, Winston Salem, Mebane, and Burlington. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, or that homophobia isn't more common than it should be. I'm saying that to call racism the true nature of the state, and Chapel Hill the sole shining beacon is very misleading.

As for this law, it doesn't surprise me. People from New Jersey and other northern environs have destroyed their own beaches. Then they headed this way because NC's beaches were clean and less cluttered. Now they are reinventing our coast in the image of their home and spending billions for the privilege. With NC in a hard economic position they really couldn't afford to stop the building.

It makes me sad. Emerald Isle use to be a beautiful place with tons of public beach. I remember eating breakfast at Squatters' on Saturday mornings and walking up the access road to go swimming and spend the morning playing. Now the beach and sound both look like somebody dropped life size Monopoly pieces on both sides of the road and wiped out all of the local culture and community.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by theroguelion

 

Government IS people. People have opinions and try to force them on others.

That being said, I'd bet that the law was sponsored by politicians that get a crapload of money from big oil and others who "benefit" from denying the planet is warming.

This is an on going fight all across the state. Real estate developers across the state have infiltrated politics to an obscene level. All you have to do is drive through Pittsboro, Mebane, or Emerald Isle to see where things are headed. You can now drive from Mebane to Whitsett and never realize you weren't in the same city. Pittsboro now has a four lane highway running all the way from Chapel Hill right up to the historic court house. Hillsborough has expensive housing developments pressed right up against old crack shack hangouts and built on old "swamp" land.

Every where you go in this state developers are fighting to tear down trees and build more. It has slowed some but the migration from California, Ohio, New York, and Mass continues. So, they keep building. People move to more rural locations and then they realize the nearest Food Lion is twenty minutes down the road. So, they scream for something closer, and a closer gas station, on and on it goes until they remake the area in the image of where they came from. Then they complain about all of the people and the lack of rural charm and move to the next place with "character."

Great news to me.

Sea levels are actually falling, and it's great to see somebody standing up for the common man and not bending over and taking it up the rear from the AGW paid criminals spouting their fiction and fear.

We need more people like this to tell the scammers to get lost.

reply to post by Dustytoad



Beaches change due to errosion from tides and currents ..... doesn't need to be about rising sea level

reply to post by longlostbrother


What do you mean? Real estate value doesn't get manipulated you mean?