How do the "Sons of God" manifest when the are spirits?

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Jacob wrestled with one and the angel touched the hollow of his thigh and it crippled him.

There are other examples of angels that both took physical form and appeared as men. You know them.

I have issues with saying that the Higgs Boson is the mechanism of action for angels becoming physical. It really does not make sense. First, what elementary particles are they made of that can be acted upon by the Higgs? Are they made of Bosons? And if so does it really make sense to think about a cloud of sentient bosons?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

For the purposes of this thread we are assuming the existence of angels. Responses to the affect that angels are fictional are expected.

This is totally speculative but ... is it possible that the Higgs Boson is the mechanism which allows for God to be an omni-observer? Just a thought I had a while back ...

Given the ultimate level of primacy inherent in the Higgs ... it definitely seems to me that the role it plays in the material universe is not a small one. Perhaps this even includes a role between the material and immaterial world ... perhaps it allows the two worlds to interface somehow. All that aside, I appreciate the measurable applications of the Higgs w/o feeling the need to attach any sort of metaphysical properties to it. Though I do believe there are some profound possibilities involved, I'm not sure how knowable they are.

What do you think?

What is your definition of angel? I a soul that have reached the next stage and returns to help an angel? Is a souls that stays on the other side and guides a human thru his unconcious an angel?

I'd believe in Aliens without seeing one before I believed that the Higgs Boson is the creator of the Universe. I see no real evidence that I believe shows that the Higgs Boson created anything or can be steered by man to create anything. I'm not saying that it can't be utilized for something, I am saying there is not yet proof of it's usefulness to man or whether we could ever create the technology to use it safely.

I believe in god, I believe there were huge humanoid beings here on earth about three thousand plus years ago, and I believe the Earth is a living being comprised of everything living on it. I presently do not believe in extraterrestrial aliens but believe there could be beings that are advanced and not alien to this planet that are not what we call human. If I see an alien I may start to believe in them after I ask it where it's from to satisfy my curiosity.

As far as Angels, I believe there is something people are perceiving but I do not know what they are. Maybe there is some sort of energy beings out there of some sort.

reply to post by Numbers33four


I think that a Son of God is a mystic who has acheived a certain level of union with God. Mystics exhibit psychic abilities. Among them, bilocation.

So, Sons of God could appear to you in the flesh, or they could go somewhere and meditate in order to enter an altered state of mystical consciousness. During that state they could project their soul. An eyewitness might percieve the projection in a miriad of ways, such as an angel or giant. Perception is tricky because it is tied up with interpretation. Interpretations are always flawed and perception is always incomplete.

And then if you combine bilocation with mind-over-matter (which mystics may also develop), a mystic could project his soul and have it take the molecules in the air and re-arrange them into a makeshift body for the projection. Hence, UFOs or "chariots".

reply to post by followtheevidence


I believe that God is outside of creation and none of the laws of physics apply to him. He made all of that for this reality.

This too is speculative, but it seems that angels may not be made of anything at all at least not anything that makes sense within this reality. Then again, maybe they take on some of the characteristics of this reality whenever they enter it. Maybe they have the power to switch.

Question

How do the "Sons of God" manifest when the are spirits?

Because they, if assuming that they exist/ed and if going by what ancient texts say, were not Spirits but beings of flesh and blood, proven by the fact that they were perfectly able to eat, have sex, create offspring and do battle.
The very same applies for the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh, that is never described as anything else but a solid being, and is also VERY "Human" in His qualities and emotions.

In my opinion, the whole Bible, if taking it at face value, so to speak, is really just an ancient version of the Cargo Cult-phenomena, when advanced beings from an advanced civilisation were thought to be divine because the natives at the time could not comprehend it in any other way, just in the same way that the natives of the islands in the pacific Ocean thought it was Spirits and gods that arrived when American and Japanese Soldiers flew in over their Islands during WW2.
That's right, they believed it was actual spirits and actual gods, and whole religions sprang up from this encounter, although it never were anything else but flesh and blood beings from an, in comparision, highly advanced civilisation with "incomprehendable" technology, that made the encounter seem. divine to the natives.

reply to post by Nightchild


They don't have to be beings of flesh. They could also take over peoples consciousness and change their genetics forming a new being. They could be energy beings. They could presently be going in and out of people and causing a steering of our world. There are also what are called Demons who cause kaotic things to happen and try to screw up the work of the good energy beings. Lots of them around.

This is just something I demise from reading these texts and other ancient texts. It's just an option.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Nightchild

 

They don't have to be beings of flesh. They could also take over peoples consciousness and change their genetics forming a new being. They could be energy beings. They could presently be going in and out of people and causing a steering of our world. There are also what are called Demons who cause kaotic things to happen and try to screw up the work of the good energy beings. Lots of them around.

This is just something I demise from reading these texts and other ancient texts. It's just an option.

While it is a very good suggestion, it nevertheless goes directly against the information that the Apocryphical texts provides about these "Sons of God" and "Angels", where an actual apparence of these beings is also given, as being the hallmark of how they are recognised and how their "Race" look; something that would not be the case if it was all about Spiritual "Possession" of random people, so to speak.

reply to post by Nightchild


No it doesn't. When Jesus is on the cross he says"God why have you forsaken me" This means the spirit of god may have left him at that point. It could have reentered and healed him after they hauled him into the cave. The disciples did not recognize Jesus at first on their trip, he was a stranger. Maybe Jesus, or the spirit of god went into another person and they recognized him after they got over the visual thing and started to talk to him. There are a lot of ways to interpret the writings. Initially when Jesus went into the desert and fasted it is said that the spirit of god entered him. In revelations Apollyon enters the body of a certain individual that has been pre-chosen at birth to fulfill his part of the apocalypse which is to torture the sinners and greedy.

I'm still thinking these are energy beings, some good some bad. DNA resemble antennas in their structure which means that there could be something happening here that I cannot yet comprehend also.

The rate of material vibration may have something to do with for some species. Our sight and sound is only tuned into a small region of what is possible, so just because we cannot hear it or see it does not mean it does not exist and is having some influence of this environment.

Then when looking at things like the Philadelphia Experiment, where the atomic vibration for a ship was altered it did pass through both space and time. Maybe there are spirits all around us, but not until there is sufficient motivation to get the energy or focus needed can they materialise in our existence.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Nightchild

 

No it doesn't. When Jesus is on the cross he says"God why have you forsaken me" This means the spirit of god may have left him at that point. It could have reentered and healed him after they hauled him into the cave. The disciples did not recognize Jesus at first on their trip, he was a stranger. Maybe Jesus, or the spirit of god went into another person and they recognized him after they got over the visual thing and started to talk to him. There are a lot of ways to interpret the writings. Initially when Jesus went into the desert and fasted it is said that the spirit of god entered him. In revelations Apollyon enters the body of a certain individual that has been pre-chosen at birth to fulfill his part of the apocalypse which is to torture the sinners and greedy.

I'm still thinking these are energy beings, some good some bad. DNA resemble antennas in their structure which means that there could be something happening here that I cannot yet comprehend also.

Thing is, though, that the textual descriptions of Spirits entering people can be a completely different phenomena that do not have anything to do with the "Sons of God" whatsoever, any more than a helicopter and a plain is one and the same, either, although natives that had never seen such vehicles before, referred to both types of vehicles as "birds"(Although they were not even flesh and blood birds, either).

As far as I know, no texts never say that 'a Spirit of a son of God' or, the 'Spirit of a Watcher', entered this or that person.

It must also be remembered that these "Sons of God" also had a specific apparence that they could actually be recognized by. In fact, when Noah was born, his Mother's husband actually thought that she had been unfaithful and had slept with a "Son of God", as Noah "looked like one".

What I am trying to say is, that the religious and textual descriptions of Spirits(Which I indeed believe exists and is not trying to refute), do not need to have anything at all to do with the actual "Sons"/ Watchers/Angels but be a completely separate phenomena altogether.

reply to post by Nightchild


Maybe it's the seal of god that they have on their forehead. Everyone would be an offspring of Noah if I read it right and Noah would have been a son of god because he would have the genetics within him. That makes us all the offspring of God/Gods sons partially. Someone who has a genetic line that has this sign on his forehead would have the ability to totally integrate god. Just an Idea I'm thrashing around. I have no clue what the seal of god looks like. I don't know what the sign of the beast looks like, possibly two horns or spots for two horns above the hairline No clue really.

reply to post by Numbers33four


They manifest when GIVEN OK from the MOSTHIGHEST to intervene with a species within 3d or other boundries. DONT think HEAVEN is within this little universe but HELL may be so careful in making angels for they may be the other............

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Nightchild

 

Maybe it's the seal of god that they have on their forehead. Everyone would be an offspring of Noah if I read it right and Noah would have been a son of god because he would have the genetics within him. That makes us all the offspring of God/Gods sons partially. Someone who has a genetic line that has this sign on his forehead would have the ability to totally integrate god. Just an Idea I'm thrashing around. I have no clue what the seal of god looks like. I don't know what the sign of the beast looks like, possibly two horns or spots for two horns above the hairline

No clue really.

You mean regarding the apparence that the 'Sons' and the Angels could be recognized by and that thisapparence wassupposedly the seal? If so, yet a very good suggestion and this could actually very well be the case in some other instances in the Bible. However, regarding the specific apparence of these beings, they were actually described indirectly as following(From the Lamech Scrolls describing Noah);

And his body was white as snow and red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him and fled, and came to his father Methuselah. And he said unto him: "I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems to me that he is not sprung from me but from the angels

In other words, these "Sons of God" and Angels, could be recognised by their physical apparence, specifically their complexion; Very light skin compared to the natives, whiteblonde hair and very bright eyes, which proves an "actual" physical apparence of an actual race.
Interestingly, this apparence is found globally in many other cultures and religions aswell, although the Greek gods, for instance, could have both dark hair aswell as blonde, and the Irish gods could also have Red hair, but they all share a very similar apparence of a differing complexion compared to the natives.

Enoch 15:8, Now the giants, who have been born of the spirit and the flesh, shall be called upon the earth evil spirits, and on the earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits shall they be upon earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth.
ENOCH 15:9, The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, contend, and bruise upon earth. Enoch 15:10, They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thristy; they shall be concealed, and shall not rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction.

There's your answer. What is still outstanding is the degree which they can affect matter. All poltergeist activity is "created" by these beings, specific levitation, movements, rattling of an entire house, etc. However, the amount of actual physical force is negligable, so they must be using a "lesser known" physical force, probably similar to frequency, sound etc.
They are also adept at creating light, many youtube videos show balls of light, or silver balls travelling in uncharacteristic ways. These could be top secret trials of some sort, but locations and behaviours don't support that.
I've pondered a long time about the higgs boson and similar scientific oddities, and honestly, the end goal would be a form of matter manipulation, which would allow more "supernatural" phenomena to occur. Please understand, all the sciences have been heavily influenced by those with occult leanings and beliefs, i can't accept that as coincidence.
They are intelligences at work which have advanced understanding of both humans, and the physical world. These intelligences are terrestrial bound and from our earliest history. These will become known in future as aliens, specifically greys, and will be the event, which ushers in both the new world order, and a new age religion, which will be enforced on sundays.

reply to post by harryhaller


But these sons of god could not only physically fight with humans they could mate with humans and have children who were giants so basically they must have been physical beings. Also lets remember they were killed by a flood, how can you kill a non physical being with a flood?

reply to post by LUXUS


That's a very good question. From what i've been able to gather, these "sons of god" were angels that fell to earth, and became physical beings. Problem was, they were giants, and made war against people. A curious thing i read once suggested that these "giants" were known for their coats made of feathers, and is partly why we associate angels with wings (?).
They were very very intelligent, and somehow understood many "advanced" things, like metal work and such. A more conspiratorial aspect would talk about how they were literally corrupting the dna of mankind, Noah was the 7th generation from Adam, and a trueblood, his wife wasn't. It was after they had re-settled on earth that Noah's son "saw the nakedness of his father", which *some* claim meant he actually slept with his mother. I'm not going to comment on that, it's just a theory, but it supports a concept of literal disease being being introduced to our race. The hebrew god was very specific about genetic purity, and the fallen "sons" were destroying the creation. A worldwide flood would be the only way of killing all giants at once.
Once these giants died, they remained a breed apart, NOT dying like the rest of us do, but carrying on as spirits. It is from these being that the lie of re-incarnation was conceived, and they remain the only other entities in the universe with whom we can communicate. There are no dead relatives floating about, as many people believe, only these "spirits" who were once living on earth, but never will again. It should also be clear now why they hate us, we are the creation, not them, and the earth was made for us, not them.

This is all conjecture, i can't say i have proof of any of my claims. However, tthe more i learn both about ancient history and modern history, it becomes evident that: a) we are not alone and b) whatever is out there, has been there since before human history began. These are terrestrial bound entities who hate humans, but pretend to be many things to confuse us. Most people on this forum would happily accept the concept of aliens, but almost all would rubbish any mention of "demons", "evil spirits" or "the devil". All of these things are easily reduced to a common denominator, which begins with the story of corruption in the garden of eden.

reply to post by harryhaller


The reason people thought they had wings is because they did have devices they could attach to their back so that they could fly.

"according to the Hebrew tale of “Beit ha-Midrash,” Ishtar, written in Hebrew as “Istahar”, was once a mortal who lived on earth prior to the great flood. During this time, fallen angels would come to earth, lured by the beauty of human women. These fallen angels were called “Watchers.” The leader of these fallen angels was Samyaza, and he lusted after the beautiful woman, Ishtar. He promised that he would reveal to her the “secrets of heaven” if she would have sex with him. Ishtar was not only beautiful, but cunning as well, and when Samayaza made his request, she said instead of the secrets of heaven, she wished to try on his angelic wings. Samyaza told Ishtar that his wings could not come off, but Ishtar, using her feminine wiles, pouted and teased Samayaza until he finally agreed to let her try on the wings. Upon receiving the wings, Ishtar promptly ascended to heaven."

To be completely honest you can't really determain what an angle is made of. They are not of this world so therefor i doubt that a supernatural being needs an explaination of how its physical form is made.