Something isn't right here........

reply to post by Helious


See this is why i enjoy coming to ATS, among all the disgusting truth that is revealed, all the lies and bullsh*t, there are still people that are aware of what, we as a planetary society are becoming. It is truly satisfying to hear on occasion from the people who aren't asleep and trying to wake up others up using nothing but simple logic and a broader understanding and level of consciousness. It truly isn't hard to connect the dots. You don't have to believe in a 'NWO' or 'illuminati puppets', you just have to be able to see all the results and reflections of what we have done, what we are doing, what we will do, and what direction we are heading to know that we currently driving full speed into a brick wall, and destroying our airbags on the way.

I guess i gain comfort knowing there are people out there with same intent and mentality about fixing the planet, we may all have different opinions, different reasoning, different amounts of knowledge regarding the core of our problems, but in the end it doesn't matter, we know we are throwing away our true power and potential to live in this truly incredible universe that gives us everything at our finger tips.

Am i the only one who feels evolution has stalled?

I find it very suspicious that soem individuals keep using "we" every half phrase.
"we see", "we know"...
Who exactly is we ?

If you as the OP have somethign ot say, say it out loud ..." I think, i know"..

Quit propagating your view as that of many.

reply to post by Helious


Government through big business. Oil was the prize for the #1 capitalist country in the world. It amazes me that few understand that with extreme wealth there is no democracy!

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I am amazed at this site sometimes.

I hope people besides the ones in the alphabet agencies are recording these posts - some of them are historic, in my opinion, and yours was definitely one of them.

Thank you.

This whole thread has made me a little weepy this morning.

When I was a little girl, it made me so proud to think about how other people in the world might look up to America and have hope for their own countries - for their own freedom. It hurt my soul when I found out about how other children my own age had to live, and I hoped and hoped that we would inspire them to stand up for themselves and fight for their own freedom.

Now - I just really hope that the people of the world that seek freedom don't lose heart because of what they see has happened, and is happening, to us. I hope they learn from our mistakes, and use that knowledge to make their own lives better.

I hope we do, too.

Thanks for the thread, OP. Even if it did make me sad.

Originally posted by BABYBULL24
Why do you think they came up with 2012???

Get people focused on the end of world as they set-up their police state - no mystery.

Nice thread!

Pretty sure the majority of people in the world don't think anything is going to happen on dec 21, 2012. If they wanted to get people to focus on the end of the world I am sure they could come up with something better then an end of a calendar. Our calendar is 365 days, but the world doesn't end, the calendar just resets, just like the Mayans will.

Maya Calandar explained

reply to post by Helious


What has occupy got to do with personal liberty?

Now for me, I find that answer obvious, but some like your self do not.... This may be because over your side of the pond you are exsposed to a lot of propaganda that makes it difficult to see the true nature of the protest.

I on the other hand have kept my self away from the BBC, and and other war machines, and have been watching Julian Assanges show, interviewing the leaders of Occupy, they state they have a clean direct goal (despite media confusion) and that is to let the government KNOW, the system of *Beurocracy* is NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE.

Each group, have a specialist area:

Some protesting foreclosures and homelessness
Some protesting the education system that *bankrupts* you.
some protesting the lack of heath care.
Others protesting the erosion of the constitution, I.e: The Patriot Act, ACTA, and *free speach zones*!
Others protesting police Brutality.
Others protesting the wars you are engaged in.

And each and every one of those groups, are protesting against the 1%.

I deem all of the above as civil liberties, especially when you see the effort they put into providing soup kitchens, and clean clothes for those in need, and other protestors. Its a joint effort to take down the cancer that is the US gov.

Originally posted by Maluhia
I find it interesting and ironic that Ben Franklin opposed the bald eagle as the symbol for our country for the following reasons and yet it seems rather appropriate for our government today.

Franklin's Letter to His Daughter (excerpt)

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

"With all this Injustice, he is never in good Case but like those among Men who live by Sharping & Robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank Coward:

www.greatseal.com/symbols/turkey.html

edit on 6-7-2012 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)

Much like Frigate birds! EPIC footage from the BBC!



Scenes like this, just about justify the license fee...

reply to post by Helious


There are a few things you should be aware of. First, the war was legal and it wasn't the first time the United States engaged in war in a similar way.

The Iraqi war was a "military engagement authorized by Congress"...
en.wikipedia.org...

...
The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,(1) Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Second, the first two large wars, military engagements, right after the United States became an independent nation was against some radical Muslim nations...

The wars, military engagements, were/are know as the Barbary wars

Even the founding fathers of this nation had to wage war against some Islamic nations who were engaged in raiding American and European ships bound to the New World, or to Europe. Americans were also killed by the radical Muslims, and in fact...

First Barbary War
...

In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once. [18]

Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks. Although John Adams agreed with Jefferson, he believed that circumstances forced the U.S. to pay tribute until an adequate navy could be built. The U.S. had just fought an exhausting war, which put the nation deep in debt. Federalist and Anti-Federalist forces argued over the needs of the country and the burden of taxation. Jefferson's own Democratic-Republicans and anti-navalists believed that the future of the country lay in westward expansion, with Atlantic trade threatening to siphon money and energy away from the new nation on useless wars in the Old World.[19] The U.S. paid Algiers the ransom, and continued to pay up to $1 million per year over the next 15 years for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages.[citation needed] A $1 million payment in ransom and tribute to the privateering states would have amounted to approximately ten percent of the U.S. government's annual revenues in 1800.[20]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

But too many Americans, like you, are ignorant of these facts, and others.

I didn't, and don't agree with everything Bush did, but the war was legal. However, we shouldn't have stayed over there so long.

Whether the government allowed the Muslim radicals to do 9/11 or not, we really don't know. But the truth is that radical Muslims do exist to this day, and they even kill, and want/plan to kill moderate Muslims not only Christians and non-believers...

What exactly have we become here, in this country? I remember watching Pearl Harbor with my wife years ago and I remember crying because I applauded heroes and those that risked there life to protect freedom and liberty and it was beautiful. What are we now? You have to ask yourself this question as it pertains to our morals and our basic outline of what this country should be.

We were never meant to create or start pre-emptive wars, we were only meant to protect our borders and those that are in VERY close alignment with our country as it pertains to National Security. We are not even world policing right now, we are actively plotting and executing invasion and take overs of countries. What in the hell are we doing?

:Lew Rockwell summed it up pretty well in this excerpt from Immorality Inc. written in 2006

"There is a name for a country where there is no security, freedom, or justice, and where criminality is woven into the fabric of everyday life: moral nihilism. Not only it is not clear who the good guys and the bad guys are. It is no longer clear that there is any pervasive belief that there are such things as good guys and bad guys."


Most of us will never take the time to analyze what we become as a people and a nation. I believe it has been designed with full intent to keep us so befuddled by all the events unfolding, amongst our own woes of work, bills, health etc. with a big sprinkle of unreality that Hollywood and sports give, to maintain us in a "ball of confusion" aka Temptations 1969. I think about this all the time...how our very basic rights in this country are dissolving away. But alas, back to work, paying bills, dealing with this and dealing with that. Does this sound like many of us? Still I rant and rave.

Originally posted by Choice777
I find it very suspicious that soem individuals keep using "we" every half phrase.
"we see", "we know"...
Who exactly is we ?

If you as the OP have somethign ot say, say it out loud ..." I think, i know"..

Quit propagating your view as that of many.

Are YOU kidding??? Is THAT all YOU got out of IT???

reply to post by Sinny


The "Occupy movement" is about bringing "socialism" to the United States.

Even the logos used by the Occupy groups throughout the United States use "socialist/communist" logos...

Let's update this with some more information which CLEARLY shows what the OWS movement is all about...




www.lewrockwell.com...


news.anon210.com...


Shame, in the above you can't see the pretty RED words...
occupywallst.org...

I forgot this one...


Or...

www.progressiverags.com...

Everywhere I look your movement has very similar logos to socialist/communist logos... I wonder why...

Perhaps they have something to do with logos like the following?...

Malaysian socialists clenched-fist logo approved

links.org.au...

Socialist Fist Logos










Soviet Fist

www.neofactionapparel.com...

Yeah, the OWS movement has NOTHING to do with socialism/communism, like some "believers" claim, and the desire for a One World Socialist Regime, right?...

Your Occupy movement works for the world elites who want to implement a One World socialist/fascist Government...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

“The governments of Europe, the United States, and Japan are unlikely to negotiate a social-democratic pattern of globalization – unless their hands are forced by a popular movement or a catastrophe, such as another Great Depression or ecological disaster“

These governments would not accept a "social-democratic pattern of globalization" unless their hands are FORCED by a popular movement (Occupy and Anthropogenic Global Warming movements), another Great Depression (the current GLOBAL economic crisis), or an ecological disaster (Global Warming been blamed on humans)

Democratising Global Governance:

The Challenges of the World Social Forum

by

Francesca Beausang


ABSTRACT

This paper sums up the debate that took place during the two round tables organized by UNESCO within the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre (25/30 January 2001). It starts with a discussion of national processes, by examining democracy and then governance at the national level. It first states a case for a "joint" governance based on a combination of stakeholder theory, which is derived from corporate governance, and of UNESCO's priorities in the field of governance. As an example, the paper investigates how governance can deviate from democracy in the East Asian model. Subsequently, the global dimension of the debate on democracy and governance is examined, first by identification of the characteristics and agents of democracy in the global setting, and then by allusion to the difficulties of transposing governance to the global level.

www.unesco.org...

The above paper is from 1991 from the UN (UNESCO is a branch of the UN in case you didn't know). It, and the meetings these globalists have been having call for a GLOBAL SOCIALIST/FASCIST GOVERNMENT derived from CORPORATE GOVERNANCE...

reply to post by Helious

turmoil on the planet between humans, humans and nature and the jump in science

Have to agree with you OP, the world has gone into a spin and no idea where this will end at this rate. In the scientific press, one good advance per week used to be a headline. Now there are many/day, each stunning and major. Is there anything that we will not be able to understand or control in a short while? Definitely an exponential curve to ?????

And in spite of this
Too many people are still destroying our planet with pollution and greed.

Too many people are becoming more anti-social because of all the social networking that allows them to do artificial-socialising by remote control while they build their brands and egos.

Too many people are using their minds less and less as they allow machines and the authorities to tell them what to do more and more. They have become slaves to technologies that have hijacked their minds. Machines get smarter so people can get dumber.

I could go on but essentially, perhaps there are simply too many people and the balancing of Nature needs to sort this out. Humans are too driven by self-importance and greed to do this so Nature needs to take a hand.

Something isn't right here........

You bet. When the bowl gets too full, it is time to flush. And seems to me too many think it is each person to himself and too many people will go down trying to grab more than they need, rather than pitch in to help turn this boat around. And, best place to hide malevolence is in disorder, so why would any of the many malevolent powers want to create order by helping?

So I hope there are still enough thinking people left to make a difference. Lets occupy our own minds and Imagine.... I will leave it to each to complete this thought .... but I think JL got it right. You, you may say I'm a dreamer,
just hope I'm not the only one ...

reply to post by Helious



Great, great OP. I rant, rave, and rail about this exact content to such an incessant degree that I have grown sick of hearing myself.

What the hell are we doing, indeed.

reply to post by BeforeTheHangmansNoose

Am i the only one who feels evolution has stalled?

Not at all. The grand ape, Homo Sapiens Sapiens is fast evolving into Homo Sapiens Sapiens Nolongersapiens. And if I may quote a fellow ATS'er who said (and sorry I cannot find the quote now so going by memory- with thanks)
Right before our eyes, Homo Sapiens is evolving into Trollus Ignoramus.

Let's all recapture our right to think and take control of our minds.
Because for sure - there are many who are standing queue to take advantage of all unused minds.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Thank you Sir for saying so eloquently what my mind ponders! Although there are two or MORE sides to every story, how could anyone in all sincerity deny what you state?

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The ambitions of petty tyrants have always been with us and will likely not go away anytime soon. The steady aggregation of power here in the United States has been happening perhaps ever since we trashed the Articles of Confederation of Perpetual Union and went with federalism. Even so, The Constitution for the United States of America that replaced this Article of Confederation eventually came with a Bill of Rights. A Bill of Rights many thought were unnecessary due to the express limitations all ready placed on the federal government and the implicit limitations many of our Founders believed were damn near express in that if the power wasn't expressly listed, that power was not expressly granted, thus that power did not exist within the federal government.

Today, those who have seen the steady aggregation of power and what it has done to We the People's Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness know full well it was a prudent move to create the Bill of Rights and even in that prudence so many of our friends and neighbors today have inexplicably and mysteriously come to believe that it is the Bill of Rights themselves that grant them their rights, and this in spite of the clear language of each Amendment that reads obviously as a prohibition on government not a grant of rights, and this in spite of the Ninth Amendment that makes expressly clear that none of the Amendments within the Bill of Rights are grants of rights. Thank God the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution and God Bless the wisdom that foresaw the need for the Ninth Amendment.

Even so, it is, as it has always been, expedience that has been the biggest threat to our own liberty. We have not, as if we ever could, had our rights taken away from us. We have willingly and mindlessly, perhaps too trustingly surrendered our rights in the name of expedience. Yet, as Thomas Jefferson wrote all those years ago, and to paraphrase him, there comes a time when going along to get along only takes us to a place where we no longer can get along. A time when expedience is no longer expedient, and a time when pragmatism is no longer practical. We seem to be irrevocably headed towards that time today.

I often hear it said that desperate times call for desperate measures, but this remark is only a justification for making bad strategies. Respectfully, I would argue that desperate times demand measured response. We must come to understand the problem with going along to get along. We must understand the profoundly contradictory notion of agreeing to disagree and insist that if we are all ever going to agree, then we must agree to agree. We must come to ask; how is it we can all ever agree upon surrender to tyranny? We must come to believe that we can, at some point, agree to agree on liberty once again. This kind of agreement requires a measured response to the petty tyrants and their sycophants.

Easier said than done, but I've never come to have a thing worth having that was easy to obtain.

It is We the People who do hold the inherent political power in this country, and it will be We the People who either succumb to tyranny or reign it in. We will never reign in tyranny by screaming for democracy and distracting ourselves with voting and the dog and pony shows of elections. We can only reign in tyranny by jealously guarding our rights and zealously defending them. That jealous guard and zealous defense need not be violent, but it must be sure and true. Without that, we will surely succumb.

Great thread, Brother. Thanks for your considered and necessary effort.

I will one day find you. And we will have that cup of coffee, and we will talk. Just like I have always told you I wanted to do.

Out-freaking-standing.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

What the hell are we doing, indeed.

I have just corrected an earlier post because I saw somewhere else, a comment about why do we say we? I changes all my we's to point elsewhere. We should stop accepting this as part or our doing. The only we that is true is, that we are outnumbered.

So please do not stop the ranting and raving. We have to do that. We didn't start the fire but seems we sure have to help put it out

reply to post by KenArten


Well, I say "we" because our forefathers referred to us as "We The People". You take this one step further, into modern times, and you have the exact same notions being applied in the term "Anonymous". It is a massive, singular body made up of individuals. The ant mound, so to speak.

WE got us here.

I, however, do not approve of what WE have done. And I accept my own responsibility for it. When I was sitting with my family watching the first footage of Shock and Awe, i was horrified. I told my wife, "Every bomb that goes off, ever pillar of fire, spectacular as it may be, is killing innocent civilians". And my protest ceased there. Approval through silence.

An interesting thread, but I fail to see how these events are linked to the disaster date of Dec 21, 2012, which in itself is a myth perpetrated by the media.