Stumbling Along The Path

Hey ATS...

Looking for a bit of advice from others who may be going through this or have gone through these emotions themselves. I feel I have reached a level in my studies where I am feeling a bit frustrated.

I guess I am at the "if this is all an illusion, including identity, and we are all propelled mainly by ego, what difference does it all make anyways?"

For instance -

If nobody asks to see your creative pursuits (poetry, painting, photography, music, etc) and the universe does not offer an ally (person, place or thing) to spur you on, do you keep those pursuits to yourself?

To push them on others, feels like one would be forcing it and would just be working from ego. "look at me, look at what I think"

If one feels they must be working a job that "makes a difference" but is offered no synchronistic events to bring that person, place or thing, to them, do they seek one out? Again, do you force the issue?

I know that real work needs to be done on our ends so I'm coming at this from the point of view of someone who has done the work, dug deep to find out who they are and what they want from life. Someone who is pushing themselves to be a better person...

I often feel that some set of circumstances present themselves to give you clues along the way, if you are open to receiving them and stay mindful, you can spot them along the path. Helpful allies, interesting out of the blue opportunities, words from a stranger, etc.

I have had these experience and they have been great and helpful but I haven't felt that in a long time and it's troubling.

In meditation and in daily gratitude, we might give thanks and ask for guidance, help to clarify these issues, ask for moments, etc. but what if the other end is static and all your getting is dial tone?

I find those of us on the path can move between - it's just an illusion so who cares anyways to a real deep desire to want to connect with people in some spiritual way but when it doesnt happen move back to, its just an illusion.....and the cycle continues....

Anyways, feeling a bit frustrated peeling back more layers of onion and have hit a rough patch. Hope this makes a bit of sense. Thanks for your time....

Peace

Hello wrdwzrd,

I am on the path as well and feel and see many beginning to walk the path with us. It is a lonely journey most of the time, but I believe it is supposed to be for you can only enlighten yourself.

To start, your creative pursuits are your own and are meant to be away to get in touch with you deeper real self.
Put your works out into the world and be appreciative if they help another onto the path or if they just see the basic beauty.

The universe or "the whole" as I refer to the omnipotence of it all, will always provide you with allies but all allies can become rivals if not out right enemies if any one person relies to much on another. I believe we are here to find out who we are as individuals, therefore to much interference from another can leave you searching the wrong areas.

If you stay true to yourself, and attempt to help to an extent others, you should be find and will find peace again.

These are just my personal beliefs and experiences from my own journey, but I hope they help you. Stay positive.

No 1 rule of all civilised humans is that you must first be able to take care of yourself in every aspect of life while pursuing our own goals and desires that does not harm or hurt others, so as not to impose on others.

This does not mean the all out pursuit of wealth as some mistakenly thought so, but merely enough that you need not worry too much about the next meal or shelter or least of all - keeping up with the jones to impress others. We humans never really need much anyway.

Do you still cling to your mom's apron's strings, her cookings, and her shelter if you are grown up and capable of attempting on your own to take charge of your life?

If you do, then best get that rule right first, for you have yet to sprout wings.

If you don't, then it's time to take that flight, to sustain yourself as your pursue your goals, make mistakes and learn from them inorder to progress.

Very few human can accept the constant of lilfe - changes. They prefer the chains of conformity for comfort, and will not readily view or accept different views contary to their own. It needs perseverance and belief in what you are doing. Micheal Angelo was never an accepted artist at his first try nor Bill Gates with Windows OS 3.0.

At the same time, you must know what were the brickwalls you encounter, so that you may go round that obstacle instead of bashing your head against it, getting frustrated and down, and only then will you find success.

Life is no illusion, for every human has at the minimum the 5 senses to define our realities - touch, see, smell,hear and taste.

Anything else will be the gifted intelligence we all equal humans are born with and given an education to rationalise with, not by mere self perception, but through honest sharing and discussions with others, beginning with the like-minded to start us off, and then to bravely debate with others of different perceptions to challenge our own beliefs, to either change others if we are right, or be changed by them if we are wrong.

I have recently put all (or most) of my creativity on hold. I am in a very very non-creative job as well, that I have been in for 12 years now, but I have not been pursuing any of my hobbies, digital art, photography, glasswork and most social networking sites (except ATS) and being social itself for almost a year or so. I also no longer feel I fit my job, but don’t have a whole lot of places to turn, the people here bore the outright hell out me mostly from a lack creativity and it has become very dysfunctional and unhealthy.

I am not sure if I am depressed or just not interested any more or what this is but a lot of this was due to the fact of having an over-involved ego. Is the correlation being on ATS or is it something else lol I really don’t know but I feel the stumbling myself.

reply to post by wrdwzrd


Alright, well, let's say that every thing in existence really is an illusion. Or let's say that everything in existence is just a manifestation of your own mind. Either one works.

Going about personal interests to gain gratification from others is the wrong way to do it. Your Ego wants this identity masturbation. It says "look what I can do, look what makes me unique". Now add the fact that everyone you know may or may not be "real" and it just seems pointless. "Let me get gratification from something that doesn't exist". I'm not pointing at you, of course, but that doesn't seem too meaningful, does it?

If you really only have your self, you should be interested in doing things that make you happy. Let's look at a bird. It has no Ego. It has no self-importance, no thoughts of what it maybe should do or should not do. It just does exactly what it has to because that is natural to it. The bird feeds, it survives, it propagates, it builds. So, let's take humans now and remove their Ego. What is natural (emphasis on truly being natural) to a human? Is it natural to work a job? Is it natural to drive an automobile around? An Egoless person wouldn't see the point. If the Earth provides with everything you need - everything your family needs even - what would be the point?

Of course, now we are trapped in a society where we practically have to do these Ego-insistant things to survive but in all honesty, if you truly wanted to, you could pull an Into the Wild and throw your old life behind you.

The aggregate of life itself may be an illusion but it can not be comprehended as an illusion without something "real", and that is you. Call it what you want: soul, mind, trueself, one thing is for certain; logically, your mind exists because you are experiencing it. You can't say that anything else exist, but you can your mind. So, with that knowledge, you might as well go about and do things that make You happy and peaceful.

My mother recently became a musician a few years ago, I have been a musician for about 10 years. There is a distinct difference between us, however. She tries very hard to be the very best she can at her instruments, it is applauding, but in the end she really suffers playing them. She doesn't enjoy them very much and she is never happy because she has such high standards for herself. The reason is: she only is doing these things because she wants gratification from others. She constantly asks me and my family our opinions of her, as if ours and other people's are the only thing important to her, not her own. She wants to be "the best' at everything because of her own insecurities and how she may think people view her. When in all actuality she would find much more peace from just playing the instrument for the sake of enjoying yourself playing it.

Don't worry too much about synchronicity. Synchronicity makes life easier, but dissonance can be one Hell of a teacher. Just keep peeling.

reply to post by wrdwzrd

Personally, when I was in the place it seems you are presently perceiving at the moment, I had to obliterate my ego.
The Saying,,, If you meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill him offends western minds, but makes since when meditated upon clearly. Here from Wikipedia

Killing the Buddha If you meet the Buddha, kill him. —Linji Thinking about Buddha is delusion, not awakening. One must destroy preconceptions of the Buddha. Zen master Shunryu Suzuki wrote in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind during an introduction to Zazen, Kill the Buddha if the Buddha exists somewhere else. Kill the Buddha, because you should resume your own Buddha nature. One is only able to see a Buddha as he exists in separation from Buddha, the mind of the practitioner is thus still holding onto apparent duality.

Only our perception of things causes the duality. To see things as they are is the key to realizing the Illusion says nothing about a life lived well under nihilistic belief systems. If that is the case, then one realizes that One PUTS the Meaning into each moment.
It took years for me to realize what the old story about the Strawberry, really meant. I am sure you might have run across it,, and I think it is pertinent to your present state.
the story:

There once was a Buddhist monk who practiced his meditation by walking in the forest each morning. On one clear crisp morning, the monk heard a rustling in the leaves and looked up to see a large tiger watching him from a distance. Sensing that the tiger was about to attack, the monk started running as fast as he could, only to come to a clearing and a high cliff. Not seeing any other way to go, the monk grasped a large vine running partly down the side of the cliff, and began to climb down it just as the tiger arrived. So there the monk was hanging, grasping the narrow end of a vine, with a snarling tiger above him, and a long deadly fall beneath him. To make matters worse, a mouse appeared and to began gnaw on the vine, just above him, but out of his reach. Just then, the monk noticed a wild strawberry plant growing from the side of the cliff, with one plump red strawberry on it. He reached out, picked the berry, put it in his mouth and thought to himself, “this strawberry is delicious!”.

Now, to me this is the best story to illustrate ''Being Present in the Moment". Even with death lurking above, below and in the middle with the mouse edging death on for the monk,,, the Monk could retain Mindfulness to the extent that he remained PRESENT IN THE MOMENT Of seeing, plucking and eating the strawberry.

A friend recently died (well, December) and I was present for most of the process,, and in one moment of clarity he opened his eyes wide, inhaled deeply (me thinking it the last breathe) and proclaimed.

"LIFE SMELLS GOOD"
It woke me up to being FULLY PRESENT WITH AS MANY MOMENTS OF LIFE THAT I CAN MUSTER.

It is hard work to stay Present. I am not there completely myself,,, but I do know this is a key to your issue.

Are you really Present in Each Moment.

Or, as Thich Nhat Hanh says in his books,,, If you are washing dishes,,, WASH DISHES.
that is how I taught myself mindfulness,,,
got rid of Dishwasher,,, and WASHED DISHES.
worked for me,,,, and pulled me straight out of the Abyss and Dark Night of the Soul type Nihilism.

Good luck,, hope some of this made sense.

Man, these are some seriously good responses!! Thanks! Lots to ponder. I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my questions. Much Peace...

Just remember there is a hidden alliance between the stumble and the gold.

“Where you stumble and fall, there you will find gold.” -Joseph Campbell

at times when been at those points continued to do as always .. meditate , continue to perfect my skill at iajutsu ...

its a test of ones determination and focus ...

before enlightenment chop wood and carry water ... after enlightenment chop wood and carry water ...