An Atheist friend of mine, is considering God, through Tai Chi

So I have a good friend of mine who is an Atheist and hardline skeptic of most things. As funny and cooky as he is, he's very logic/reason based and recently started doing Tai Chi due to some neck and spine problems.

His wife has always done Tai Chi with me and some mutual friends, but he always relented, in a skeptical way, saying that Tai Chi was a bunch of Woo.

So desperate in his pain and wanting to be off pain killers, he gave Tai Chi a shot and eventually found that it was improving his conditions. About 3 months in, he got to a point where he actually started feeling the Chi energy all around him, and tried with all his might to brush it off as placebo mind based woo. Well the chi energy just kept increasing, while all the more his mind tried to label it all as impossible.

Finally the other day, as we sat at an intense chess game, he admitted that Tai Chi phenomenon is real to him and that its his opinion that science probably does not yet have instruments sensitive enough to measure it. But when they do, this could possibly prove that souls are real and so is God.

He told me not to tell any of our mutual friends, as his position as hardcore skeptic atheist, is pretty substantial to him and he is kind of scared that his position is starting to crumble all due to Tai Chi. He told me this because even though I am A Christian Mystic Nondualist, I have always been kind, loving, helpful, and nonjudgmental towards his position. If anything, we merely take subtle potshots at each other when hanging out in a very humorous way.

Regardless, he said it would be ok to post this here on ATS, as he is interested what some of the remarks might be when i mentioned the idea of posting this here.

if don't have the humility to admit you don't know and let go of your beliefs & disbeliefs, knowing will never happen

reply to post by dominicus


Could you explain further what tia chi is? And would it actually even be considered a religion? Or more a philosophy or a way of life like Buddhism?

Glad that your friend is feeling better, I know that being in intense physical pain can be a real bummer.

However, something seems off to me.

Friend is a self described Atheist - Friend is in pain - Does some Tai Chi - Now considers the possibility of a God. I don't understand how you get from one to the other.

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by dominicus

 

Could you explain further what tia chi is? And would it actually even be considered a religion? Or more a philosophy or a way of life like Buddhism?

Tai Chi is a martial arts and a philosophy/way of life.

You commonly see it in the parks of China, where a dozen or more people are practicing it.

The martial arts aspect focuses around total balance of the body. You could say that the fictional Drunken Boxing is a form of Tai Chi.

Tai Chi is a form of martial art that is based on slow and cognitive action.

Your friend has other issues he is not dealing with and using this to allow him freedom to accept it.

Please do not associate Tai Chi with religion. It is in essence, meditation while practicing slow movement that would otherwise be a fast moving form of physical contact.

If at any cost it can be considered a way of life, it is via meditation.

you are in your thoughts 100% while you move.

YOUR thoughts, not a gods.

he needs to seek help elsewhere or he will find him self lost in his own self fulfilling trap, your friend.

Making pure the body and mind while doing Tai Chi,
I have never done it, but i assume its like any other slow, focused art.

Balancing the body (chakras) makes you feel more alive. Tai chi does it, meditation does it. Other various exercises help in that regard too.

And really. Try not to label yourself anything because that puts restrictions on who you really are. . I do not label anyone or myself, it sounds wrong coming from my lips (for some reason..).

And as for god? Hm. I do believe there is a source for everything. Nikola tesla found what that source was.

“My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength, inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know it exists.”
Nikola Tesla

That is similar to what my search has come up with. Though, i can see how a lot of people assume they are athiest, and its just because they do not agree with organized religion... Well neither do i. I have my reasons of course, and its through research and contemplation in my own time (i do a lot of it). Will we ever know? Maybe.

We almost have, to have some sort of soul. There are over 7 billion people on this planet. And each and every single one of them is different. But science cannot prove the existence of a soul, or even the origin of our conciousness.

The problem is clearly that this guy wrapped his general skepticism with everything into a non-belief of a deity.

So ya, the second he experiences something odd, anything built up on top of that will shake. But mystical and paranormal stuff aren't directly related to one another.

For instance:
I seen an alien, therefore bigfoot must exist.
I seen a ghost, therefore god must exist.
I seen god, therefore unicorns must exist.
etc.

The guy should not lose his skepticism, Just remind him skepticism should flow both ways on all subjects and used as a tool to promote discovery, not promote a set of rules.

So he is experiencing chi...he should then spend a bit of time considering that alone...not decide to crumble everything else around him people have talked about before. I do however recommend with his new open mind to take another look over at the stuff he dismissed simply on principle.

I am an atheist whom believes in ghosts...I don't know what a ghost is mind you, just labelling an experience that fits a catagory,...but even if it is, lets say, the general thought of it being dead people still in existance...that doesn't require a deity either. A person doesn't require a king to live on land, a spirit likewise wouldn't require a god to live in some alternate dimension...doesn't mean there isn't one..just not required, and no evidence of anything in specific anyhow (outside of a general universal order potential)

Friend is a self described Atheist - Friend is in pain - Does some Tai Chi - Now considers the possibility of a God. I don't understand how you get from one to the other.

reply to post by Daemonicon

He thought the chi energy, that one eventually can feel and direct when doing tai chi ( a martial arts exercise), was a bunch of horse poo poo. Until he tried it himself and verified it to himself. So he is concluding that perhaps God is the source of this Chi, or of all things. He said that perhaps by setting aside skepticism and atheism, and actually looking for God or exercising towards God, perhaps in meditations, that he may eventually find that, the same way he now experiences Chi energy.

That's that way he's connected it in his mind

reply to post by dominicus

He'll hear a lot of disinformation about Chi (even here on ats). Fortunately, he will discover by himself that Qi has nothing to do with cognition, that the source of this life-force isn't physical and at an higher stage, he will even realize that efforts and movements aren't necessary at all.

reply to post by dominicus


What does Tai Chi and following a god have to do with anything?

What does Yoga, Chakra, Karma HAS anything to do with a MAN made GOD?

Im an Atheist and i do Yoga, that doe not make me believe in a deity. its simply inner peace to calm myself.

I guess its easy to dismiss when associate spirituality(imo, energy, yoga, karma, etc) with religion.

reply to post by luciddream

I already posted why. He thought chi energy was utter bullocks, but then experienced it to be true. Experiencing chi energy, had nothing to do with beliefs, since he didnt believe it to be true. Therefore, so too w God. He admitted that perhaps it is possible to experience God regardless of what beliefs or thoughts you may have about it.

The chi energy, opened up t my atheist friend, a whole realm of invisible possibilities.

Just because spiritual energy exist, that does not mean God exists. Just because Satan exists (possibly) does not mean that God exist. So many people have a Christian world-view when it comes to spiritual beliefs...

As for your atheist friend. He was a materialist and that is a BELIEF system that there is nothing beyond what we can understand. People confuse skepticism (questioning things) with materialism (believing that only the stuff we can see exist). Materialists are just as dogmatic as some fundamentalist Christians, glad he got out of that belief system. Now, he should still keep his skepticism (questioning things) but drop the ridiculous materialism.

I am finding it hard to see the link between Tai Chi and a supreme deity. I have chronic pain due to a serious chronic health problem and one of the few things that have ever given me any measure of relief is acupuncture. I have no idea how it works and to be honest I was not expecting to, so I doubt its a placebo effect but it has worked very effectively. Just because it works it does not make me think that the pain relief of acupuncture comes from God any more than the pain killing properties of medication are from God.

reply to post by majel42


I dont think this is similar. He is astonished that he can feel this chi energey, he calls it a chilly vibrational wind, and can direct it all over his body and to others. I have known about this as well but only do tai chi maybe once a month.

So now he's been devouring all ancient texts that discuss chi energy, and guess what, many of them reference a supreme being. So he is considering this being to be something subtle and saying that if God does exist, perhaps it would require One to tune into said being,the way it took him 3 months to tune into chi energy. His words,not mine.

He's reading Taoist, Buddhist, and zen texts now. Im gonna be having a chess game w him this Friday. Will add more updates as i get them. I figured id get questions here for him and ask then reply here. He limits his time on the net as he's an engineer and has to stare at comp all day

As you may gather from my name, I also devour any information having to do with chi. And practice tai chi daily. I was raised a Christian, and believed in that God until I became agnostic at about 16 y/o. I first found chi while doing a sitting yogic meditation. They call it prana but it's the same thing. I had done other meditations before but none that had you focus on an incomming energy. Like believing in God I had to have "faith" in the process without knowing or it would never had worked.

I call myself a "practicing agnostic" because I do believe in some sort of higher power, wether it's a collective conciousness or a religion's god. And sometimes I ask God to send me chi energy. But I can't say for sure that it makes those sessions more powerful.

I also think that Christianity's "holy spirit" is chi.

reply to post by dominicus

He's reading Taoist, Buddhist, and zen texts now. Im gonna be having a chess game w him this Friday. Will add more updates as i get them. I figured id get questions here for him and ask then reply here.

I think it's great he's expanding his mindset
Doesn't really matter if he's connecting this energy to god or a higher being or himself, he's going to benefit from it, imho.

I've always wanted to do Tai Chi or Qigong and only just this week was looking into it but having trouble finding classes close to me.

I have a question if you don't mind. How often does he practise? Three months in for a beginner to feel this energy is awesome. Is that the norm?

Originally posted by mainidh
Tai Chi is a form of martial art that is based on slow and cognitive action.

Your friend has other issues he is not dealing with and using this to allow him freedom to accept it.

Please do not associate Tai Chi with religion. It is in essence, meditation while practicing slow movement that would otherwise be a fast moving form of physical contact.

If at any cost it can be considered a way of life, it is via meditation.

you are in your thoughts 100% while you move.

YOUR thoughts, not a gods.

he needs to seek help elsewhere or he will find him self lost in his own self fulfilling trap, your friend.

The association with religion is readily understood, and not just religion but Spiritual. For what he experienced, if I read the OP correctly is, what some of us are born with Energy Recognition, the sudden awareness of CHI, and kundalini, life force. The Force is with you! The photons that flow in through our cells, our cells and pineal emit photons.

Something more than the realistic material matrix world he had accepted up until then.

The mystery of more, and thus he knew, well Soul and even perhaps God was real then.

This opened the door for him.

For him this was paramount to a gateway experience.

As to the logic of one thing leading to another. It can be very swift for some. Spending a lifetime ignoring your Soul and the still voice within, and suddenly feeling this, can make a lot more fall on his plate. Now it depends on what his life purpose is, what came into the world to do, his awareness and realization that there is way more than he knew, and how much his own Soul will guide him in this, what his Soul's message to him will be. I mean really, reaching in and realizing the material world is not quite what we think, and something more is here, opens wide the door, if you are grateful, thankful and happy, you can start to SEEK.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by majel42

 

I dont think this is similar. He is astonished that he can feel this chi energey, he calls it a chilly vibrational wind, and can direct it all over his body and to others. I have known about this as well but only do tai chi maybe once a month.

So now he's been devouring all ancient texts that discuss chi energy, and guess what, many of them reference a supreme being. So he is considering this being to be something subtle and saying that if God does exist, perhaps it would require One to tune into said being,the way it took him 3 months to tune into chi energy. His words,not mine.

He's reading Taoist, Buddhist, and zen texts now. Im gonna be having a chess game w him this Friday. Will add more updates as i get them. I figured id get questions here for him and ask then reply here. He limits his time on the net as he's an engineer and has to stare at comp all day

Wow, good for him. Can he transmit his chi energy yet? Something I want to try. I can feel it inside me. Tell him that the energy and the newly acquired conscious awareness are the result of his re-discovery of his higher self, the Atman, the Buddha self. He has realized that he has lived in the past, the present, and the future. You can call this existence as God. Again, following the tradition of Zen, you shouldn't talk too much about this state of being.