Dec 21 2012 - I'm calling a Truce

Hey All,

Note: My appologies in advance, i have dyslexia, Please ignor the spelling mistakes.

Just a quick thread to bring up a couple of things that have been bugging me over the last few weeks here on ATS.

There seems to be 2 distinct groups appearing here on ATS, one saying something WILL happen in December, and one group saying nothing will happen.

If i may, i would like to throw in a 3rd scenario, one i find much more realistic. What if all the 2012 signs that we have been given are signalling THE START of an event on this date.

Given the shere amount of ancient civilizations that signify this date specifically, i do belive somthing will happen, however i just dont think its gonna happen over night (I hope not i have been invited to a kick ass new years party).

Say for instance (just an example) a substancial enviormental change occured such as a polar shift. I Wouldnt expect that to happen within 24 hours, i would expect to see something happen over the course of lets say a decade. Doesnt change the fact that it started on that specific date.

History dictates to us that anyone putting a specific date on a future event means it usually doest come to pass, we see it all the time here on ATS. Maby we are just jumping to conclusions without the whole "wait and see" mentality.

Personaly if there is a conciouness shift on december 21 2012, i would expect to see it develop in indaviduals over the course of many months or years. I just cant see everyone waking up one morning and instantly having psychic abilities....i could be wrong but this is just my opinion.

The point im getting at is thier seem to be so many people bitching at each other over this date, its getting a little tiring to read.

Im Just thowing in a suggestions, give peoples ideas a chance to develop before you discount them, and if nothing happens, be considerate to the people who belived, they have just had thier dreams smashed. This goes for both sides, some people need to learn to accept critacisms, if people dont belive somthing is going to happen likr you do, you CANT force them, and widing them up and arguing with them is just stupid.

........................Cant we all just get along? Truce

reply to post by Jademonkey2k

You forgot group number 3, those who think something might happen.

In any case, what will be will be. Individual thoughts, ideas and actions seem to have so little influence on what is perpetrated in the world that I think most people have retreated into a safe, personal bubble. "As long as I keep on "doing my thing/job/etc" then everything will at least stay the same." Similar to that famous scene in the movie Network. As long as I can keep my steel-belted radials....

I am more a wait and see, prepare for nothing type. Things do seem to be accelerating though, for want of a better word....

It's telling that many cultures single out this date. And since the focus is on a particular day, for it to be real, something has to happen on that day. Maybe there's another alternative that people can believe without freaking out. That something will occur on that day but no one will notice.

Same here, I want a truce as well. It's funny to me when skeptics still post there opinions, skeptics aren't suppose to have opinions if they are skeptical. They should just disagree and move along. I believe something is going to happen, like the quarantine that we are in coming down, and that's it. No bang, no boom. And fact is on the date, no one would even know that the quarantine has come down, because we most people didn't know that there was even a quarantine to begin with. We will all have to wait to see what effects take place due to the occurrence.

reply to post by Hillarie


Would you care to provide some primary sources that back up this claim? In fact can you even provide a source that proves the Maya placed any kind of emphasis on this date?

reply to post by NewerBeing

It's funny to me when skeptics still post there opinions, skeptics aren't suppose to have opinions if they are skeptical. They should just disagree and move along.

That's not really a fair assessment, is it? Why would someone who is skeptical be less or more opinionated than their counterparts who believe, and have opinions. Should believers just agree, and move along?

There is a difference between a skeptic and a habitual debunker.

A skeptic is open to all possibilities, but subscribes to none until enough evidence has been accumulated to reach a verdict. Or at the very least sway his/her opinion.
A debunker is immediately looking for evidence to support their preconceived notions and world-view. Except for trolls who live to debunk anything and everything.

So debunkers live on both sides of just about any issue.

A truce would require moderation, consideration, and skepticism, rather than extremism, from both sides. Do you really see that happening on this issue except among a minority of members?

reply to post by Klassified


Then ATS has A LOT of trolls, because they won't even debunk info.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Hillarie

 

Would you care to provide some primary sources that back up this claim? In fact can you even provide a source that proves the Maya placed any kind of emphasis on this date?

Im pretty sure that the Maya have multipul depictions of this date (they use dots and dashes like more code) all over thier ancient tablets. But the biggest empasis is that thier long date calendar ends december 21 2012. They talk in thier depictions about a "new golden age" when the gods will return.

en.wikipedia.org...

Infact i belive the exact translation is that "The world as we know it will end". I think the issue most people get caught up in is taking the translation too litrilly. The world as we know it is a car wreck. Doesnt mean it will be destroyed, most likely a a big change. Weather its a good or bad change is where people argue. I for one cant really speculate either way. All i have are the facts.

But its not just the Maya, many other civilizations Such as the egyptions, hopi indians and aztecs also mention this specific date over and over again.

If it was one civilization it could be conincidence, but multipul civilizations seperated by 1000's of years is a little more then a conincidence.

Anyway weather or not the date is verifiable is not the issues here, its been seen hundreds of times thoughout history. The real issue is with its interpretation.

Im expecting to wake up December 22nd and not see a damm thing, however just because i dont see doesnt mean nothings changed. It could be in your face or it could be subtle. Its a waiting game.

Originally posted by Jademonkey2k
But the biggest empasis is that thier long date calendar ends december 21 2012. They talk in thier depictions about a "new golden age" when the gods will return.

This is why I don't understand where people are getting this "end of the world" crap from. The Mayans said that there would be a shift, they didn't say the world would implode upon itself or whatever.

People read something about a big change and automatically assume that we're all going to die.

reply to post by Jademonkey2k


The Maya only refer to 13.0.0.0.0 once. It is Tortuguero Monument 6 and it describes a religious ceremony that was supposed to occur on that date. However, the researchers that originally translated it no longer believe it references 13.0.0.0.0. Also, the Long Count does not end or repeat on this day. We have examples of Long Count days that go into piktuns (20 baktuns) while we also have Coba Stela 1 which has a Long Count date that goes back trillions of years.

As for the other cultures making reference to December 21, 2012 I say once again, prove it. So far no one has been able to provide a single prophecy that mentions December 21, 2012 despite this being a common claim.

reply to post by Xaphan


Actually the doomsday theorists have a better leg to stand on than the New Age crowd. From the Popol Vuh and the Fifth Sun prophecy (which is actually Aztec in origin, but most 2012ers ascribe it to the Maya) tell of previous creations that came before Man. The gods found these creations to be unsatisfactory and were thus wiped out. Of course if we go with the Popol Vuh Man was found to be an adequate creation and would not be replaced. As for the Fifth Sun prophecy it has no date associated with it. This is pretty much the origin of 2012 theories after someone erroneously claimed the Long Count ended on December 21, 2012.

reply to post by Jademonkey2k

Given the shere amount of ancient civilizations that signify this date specifically, i do belive somthing will happen

Would you care to mention all the ancient civilizations that signify this particular date specifically?......I am only aware that this date was mentioned by the Mayans, and they didn't exactly say it was going to be any great shakes!

So who else has mentioned it?.......specifically.

reply to post by Jademonkey2k


I totally agree with you that the events near 2012 will happen over a period of time.Although the question is what is it that well take place on this date

reply to post by Cyberwraith98


The end of the ET Quarantine that surrounds our earth.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by Jademonkey2k

 

Given the shere amount of ancient civilizations that signify this date specifically, i do belive somthing will happen

Would you care to mention all the ancient civilizations that signify this particular date specifically?......I am only aware that this date was mentioned by the Mayans, and they didn't exactly say it was going to be any great shakes!

So who else has mentioned it?.......specifically.

Apologies, I believe I may have given a little false information here, the ancient cultures im referring too specify 2012 as the most important year for various reason, only the Mayans and Aztec specify which month exactly.

But please see below for further info on the other cultures. Ill give you a brief outline, but like everything, you can find this information very easily from any university archaeology website. Almost all of the following information is heavily catalogued.

Flame me all you want, but lookup the information yourself before you reply.


Incas

The Inca calendar also ends on the year of 2012, they also mention the turning over of life, the renewal of life. They mention several times of an aligning of the planets which will bring forth the New Age, which relates to the science community of the aligning of the Earth, Sun, and our galaxy.


Aztec

Also similar prophecies as to the Mayans and the rest of the ancient cultures. They too point to the date of 2012 in December but go one further and point to a time on that date, 11:11am to be exact. They follow the long count calendar which is due to end on that date. For them it is a time of the 6th sun, a New Age of creation.


Tibetan Monks

The Tibetan teachings also prophesize of the New Age that is coming up ahead in our time, the exact year 2012 was left by the Buddha himself. It can be found in their holy text the Tripitaka.


Egyptians

Also have the same perspective, on their stone calendar, and it ending in 2012 A.D. Also if you watch the "2012 enigma" by david wilcock you will find the additional dates build into the structure of the pyramids themselves.


Dogon Tribes (Still around today)

Have a bit of a different take on it, they talk about a returning of a spaceship to form a new blue star, which seems to be relating to us and the Earth, and the new times ahead. I only mention this one as it is very similar to the Hopi Indian Blue Star Prophecy.


India Hindus

Following the Lunar calendar the Hindu prophecy of Lord Krishna is supposed to occur as well. The prophecy is almost precisely the same as the Mayans have predicted, yet both these cultures never met. They say this is the end of the Kali Yuga (end time of man) and the rebirth of the enlightened ones on this plane.


Cherokee Tribes

Their is little information on this tribe, most of their lore, legend and prophecy is held by their elders and not given to outsiders, however ask any native Cherokee what is thier most sacred date or timeline and they will always answer 2012, with no apparent reason.



Hopi (Blue Star)

An ancient civilization that currently live in Arizona, who predicted the coming of the white man, several of the world wars, and the nuclear dispute in the super powers of the world. They go on to say that there will be the New Age, where all of this will come to an end and humanity will enter into the 5th world. The signal for this is a bright blue star that should appear in 2012.

Zulu Tribes:

They give information saying that the whole world will be turned upside down in 2012. They dont have many ancient texts due to thier lack of a need to write (sam as today) but their propecy are carved many many times over in various caves as simple drawings. Most of the time as upside down images. Though not a proven fact, its is thought that its symbolises a pole shift. However further investigations need to be made.

.

reply to post by Jademonkey2k


I'll ask again provide the actual prophecies. I can tell you right now the Aztecs mention nothing about 2012. In fact they only used the Calendar Round system so it was impossible for them to refer to dates outside of the current 52 year cycle. The current Calendar Round ends in 2027. Also Kali Yuga does not end in 2012. It has thousands of years to go before it ends. I've actually looked into each of these supposed prophecies and none of them exist. Of course I'm always open to being proven wrong. So please provide the primary sources of these prophecies.

Well, things have been happening for a few years now and it's excalating. I think the predictions try to point to a time of both unrest and enlightenment. How did they know this long ago? Maybe they witnessed something twenty six thousand years ago and people went weird or something. In order to associate it they somehow would have needed something from another twenty six thousand years earlier for reference. That means man would have been around and intelligent 52 thousand years ago or some other species of being was that taught man.

What do I think? Haven't a clue. I'm just worried that people are going to do something stupid because they think everything is going to fall apart. Crime will probably go up to high levels in the future. People will continue getting screwed out of everything they earned and saved by the greedy. Weather will keep getting worse and we will all become slaves to debt in the future. That isn't really an uneducated guess though. If the governments of the world can't pull the rabbit from the hat everything will fail. The only thing in that hat right now is a hole filled with a huge national debt. For some strange reason I think this script was written a while ago by someone powerful. They could have planned this in the last sixty years or so but I feel it is older than that.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Jademonkey2k

 

I'll ask again provide the actual prophecies. I can tell you right now the Aztecs mention nothing about 2012. In fact they only used the Calendar Round system so it was impossible for them to refer to dates outside of the current 52 year cycle. The current Calendar Round ends in 2027. Also Kali Yuga does not end in 2012. It has thousands of years to go before it ends. I've actually looked into each of these supposed prophecies and none of them exist. Of course I'm always open to being proven wrong. So please provide the primary sources of these prophecies.

Were going off topic here, my original post was to see if i could get people to stop arguing about if something will or will not happen and to just wait and see. I wasn't planning on going into so much detail about prophecies, that's a subject for another post to be fair.

However I will answer your question to the best of my ability. And like yourself im quite happy to proven wrong, id rather someone correct me then walk around with false information.

As i understood it the The Aztec calendar incorporated two different counting systems: the first Aztec calendar called the Xihuitl, was made up of 18 months, with 20 days each (360 days) with an additional 5 days (called the Nemontemi) tacked onto the end. The other Aztec calendar, the Tonalpohualli, was a ritual Aztec calendar round made up of 20 day signs (with names such as reed, knife, house, rabbit, etc.) set against a "week" of 13 days. The counting would follow the pattern of 1 reed, 2 knife, 3 house, 4 rabbit, etc. This cycle would repeat itself every 260 days. (i.e.. the date 1 reed would appear every 260 days).

Each of these calendrical systems had their purpose. The Xihuitl helped to record seasonal events and annual ceremonies while the Tonalpohualli assisted in divination and various ceremonies. These two calendars ran concurrently and repeating dates would appear only every 52 years (e.g.. the Xihuitl date of 1 Izcalli (the first month) and the Tonalpohualli date of 1 Crocodile would occur only every 18,980 days).

The Calendars on their own do not show any specific date (like you said, not for a few 1000 years or so). However as I understand it they were designed to be used together. When used in conjunction the the next major "cross over" date between the two is December 21st 2012.

Admittedly this could simply be a coincidence, but considering all the other civilizations that seem to pin point this year/month, it just seems odd that it would fall on that day.

Again please do put me right if im wrong, im only putting forward the information i have collected.

Im going to go out on a limb here and put forward another "sign" if you want to call it that. Despite ancients texts and drawings, i personally feel something is about to happen. Not because iv been brainwashed by archaeological information, but on a spiritual level. To be honest its not proof of anything, just a gut feeling, like something is out of place, or doesn't fit.

If nothing apparent immediately happens in December, I wont be broken hearted, ill just listen to my own heart and feelings and let my soul decide where to take me.

Call it new age mumbo jumbo if you like, but im content with myself and how i feel about the world.

reply to post by Jademonkey2k


What you have described with the Aztec calendar system is a Calendar Round. The Maya had an identical system with the Haab and the Tzolkin. What you get when they are used together is a 52 year cycle known as a Calendar Round. The current Calendar Round ends in 2027 but there is no significance associated with it.

I'm fairly confident that the calendar currently in use, as approved by the Vatican and based off the birth of Christ, features leap-year dates. These additional days added on every four years are something which, I don't believe, any ancient societies took into account.

Now, I'm not positive, so feel free to correct me anyone, but wouldn't that mean that the Maya year of 2012 is different from the Gregorian year of 2012? If so, wouldn't the Maya 2012 have already come and gone, since they don't have the additional day added in?

To be precise, the Maya would be one year behind the Gregorian calendar after about 1460 (Gregorian count) years. Since Maya culture starts approximately 500 years before the birth of Christ, they are currently at roughly 2500 years (Maya count). In a mere 500 more years they would be two years off from the Gregorian calendar. Which means that the actual date of 2012 would have been Winter, 2011.

I might be wrong though. Truthfully don't know much about the 2012 prophecies. Only that Leap Years weren't incorporated in every calendar. Similar to how daylight's saving is also not a factor in every calendar.

~ Wandering Scribe