Where's the end

reply to post by artistpoet


and I ...
will go have a cup of tea

and ponder the Universe ...

... or not

The end is infinity, but we can't get there because we're stuck in time.

reply to post by KenArten




I love how you eplained that, and yes basically one question leads to another and another and so on.
I dont know, the answers are all there we just gotta ask the right questions,but then who do we ask?

Sometimes, I wonder: is there such a thing as a limit in space? When people think of the end of the universe, they imagine this invisible wall or barrier. But can such a thing actually exist? It almost goes against logic. When considering the universe, one must see the entire spectrum from the macro to the micro. Do you think the micro universe also goes on forever, or is there some limit to how small things can get? Can there exist a particle so tiny that nothing smaller can exist? But then, a person can ask "what is that smallest particle made of?" Even smaller parts.

Until we find a particle that holds up a sign saying "dead end", we can only assume that it goes on infinitely, in both directions. The entire known universe may be just another "particle", one so immense that from our perspective, seems to encapsulate everything. I always think of fractals and then I realize, in a fractal reality there is no such thing as macro and micro, since there is no beginning, no middle and no end.

Originally posted by TheReclaimer
Sometimes, I wonder: is there such a thing as a limit in space? When people think of the end of the universe, they imagine this invisible wall or barrier. But can such a thing actually exist? It almost goes against logic. When considering the universe, one must see the entire spectrum from the macro to the micro. Do you think the micro universe also goes on forever, or is there some limit to how small things can get? Can there exist a particle so tiny that nothing smaller can exist? But then, a person can ask "what is that smallest particle made of?" Even smaller parts.

Until we find a particle that holds up a sign saying "dead end", we can only assume that it goes on infinitely, in both directions. The entire known universe may be just another "particle", one so immense that from our perspective, seems to encapsulate everything. I always think of fractals and then I realize, in a fractal reality there is no such thing as macro and micro, since there is no beginning, no middle and no end.

Don't stop thinking. Don't stop being.
Oh well, you can't LOl
cheers ljb

Infinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity - Similarto Infinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Infinity (symbol: ∞) refers to something without any limit, and is a concept relevant in a number of fields, predominantly mathematics and physics. Having a ...

Lemniscate - List of paradoxes - Infinity (philosophy) - 0.999...

reply to post by Lichter daraus

Well at least we can give each other's brains some exercise and who knows what cooperative wisdom will emerge. I have just thought of this quote

... for the wise man looks into space and he knows there are no limited dimensions. Lao Tsu

May also be true of the human mind if we give it a chance.
KenArten

Originally posted by swampcricket
The universe is always growing......
But where is it going

Probably to be recycled into another Big Bang. If you think about it the Universe in all likelihood recycles its contents in the same exact order again and again right down to every minute detail as the total amount of energy contained in the Universe never changes. It can't. The law of conservation prohibits any changes. So it must expand then collapses or bends around like on the surface of a sphere to slam together where gravity will turn everything into a giant single black hole compressing all matter into energy, a single form of energy all compressed to the size of an atom. The Primeval atom, a super heated tiny battery, tiny star, where such heat overcomes gravity to create anther Big Bang to form an identical univers like the one before it in the same exact order.

If you think I'm full of crap, you're wrong, and I have only one thing to say to you, What are the odds of your being alive right now in the grand timeline of the Universe?

It starts at around 200 million to 1 and it's still counting. It could be several hundred trillion to one. What is the potential lifespan of the Universe?

It can't be infinity to one keep in mine. Because that math is impossible. There has to be a whole number for us to exist. Infinity to one is still infinity, meaning it's never going to happen.

The truth as it seems to be, glaringly obvious, is that we all live our lives over and over again in the very same sequence of events with no recollection of time in between. This is because everything that happens in the Universe is tie to the singularity with a finite amount of energy causing all chain of events to cascade in a predetermined programed arrangement of what will happen just as a bowling ball for instance thrown down a bowling lane from the same angle with the same amount of energy behind it as before will knock over the same pins which will move through the air in the same exact sequence as before coming to rest in the same exact positions. It's a fact, and why predetermination is a legitimate theory and chaos theory is not which is based on an elaborate maze of junk math laid out like the Winchester Mansion asking mathematicians to disprove it using a type of straw man argument. When it is shown to be bunk to those who can comprehend the math, chaos theory proportionate simply claim only a few people on the planet can understand the math, which is true, and therefore they will say with a smirk, "Go ahead and explain it's all a bunch of bunk to the world. It wont matter."

Chaos theory is criminal because your question otherwise could had been answered long ago, and you would have never had the need to author this thread. Predetermination would be excepted fact today.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Lichter daraus

 

instead of me describing how its contained why don't you tell me what exists outside of it?

having a conversation with any of you is worthless.

you're all too busy pushing something no one is buying.

good luck next week.

Excellent post! A star for you.

Originally posted by Night Star
There is no end.

Correct, everything simply recycles in the exact same order each time this universe recreates itself for infinity.

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by swampcricket

 

42

What?

Originally posted by swampcricket
The universe is always growing......
But where is it going

A tiny lil thread for a gigantic universe and you're a member since 2005 ? Shame on you .

reply to post by randyvs


It must be a primeval atom thread comprised of compressed pure energy.



swampcricket must be a... light being.

Thanks for all the input guys. I often ponder if the universe does have a big bang and expand then all of a sudden the is a big contraction back to a singularity but that still doesn't answer my mind banging question where the hell does it expand to? Lol if it contracts what does it pull in and then once again where does it bang to? Take a star 6 billion light years away we can see the light from it now from six billion years ago so we put ourselves (earth in the center. Take that star and put it in the center what if it is seeing light from stars 6 billion light years away from the other side of it etc etc I think I need a beer!

reply to post by swampcricket


What is expanding is space/time. What is beyond it is not created yet until something that is, such as energy and matter, moves which creates space by moving time forward. That's why the universe is expanding and why it is accelerating. It's like a steam engine with no governor that can feed itself mechanically with coal and water.

On the starlight observation question that is simply a window into past time. Light defuses but can't be destroyed so it always is until it reaches matter and changes form.

In the observable universe light travels all around from points of origins no older than 13.75, but the first visible light still existing somewhere in the universe would be from the formation of first visible light, and at what time this occurred in the history of the universe... you need GLAST's data for that www.nasa.gov...


As far as the measurement of the span of the Universe which is what I think you were touching on with the 6 billion light years and so on comment, the approximate size is, it's at least 156 billion light-years wide. www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by swampcricket

 

What is expanding is space/time. What is beyond it is not created yet until something that is, such as energy and matter, moves which creates space by moving time forward. That's why the universe is expanding and why it is accelerating. It's like a steam engine with no governor that can feed itself mechanically with coal and water.

On the starlight observation question that is simply a window into past time. Light defuses but can't be destroyed so it always is until it reaches matter and changes form.

In the observable universe light travels all around from points of origins no older than 13.75, but the first visible light still existing somewhere in the universe would be from the formation of first visible light, and at what time this occurred in the history of the universe... you need GLAST's data for that www.nasa.gov...


As far as the measurement of the span of the Universe which is what I think you were touching on with the 6 billion light years and so on comment, the approximate size is, it's at least 156 billion light-years wide. www.msnbc.msn.com...

edit on 9-5-2012 by LilDudeissocool because: of a nonworking link issue.

Where is it expanding to? What is there for it expand and accelerate to? Has to be something right? You can't expand into nothing.......

Time is just as confusing as its unexplainable as well

Indeed, a mind bending question.

The universe is currently expanding, last I heard.
How far? Who knows. Is the universe contained within a "marble" or an "electron", similar to the ending of Men in Black, pictured here?



By that theory, our universe could be contained in an "electron", which is part of an atom, which is part of a toe on a giant something-or-other, which is living in a world inside a universe which is contained within another "electron" which is part of another atom which is part of another "thing" which is in another universe contained with in another electron.... infinitely...

The only problem I think of though, is how could the universe infinitely expand if it is contained within something, like the "electron"? If it expanded too far the electron would have to burst.

I like to think that the "container" of universes is ONE thing, and it extends infinitely in all directions.
Within that infinite "container" there are universes, infinite amounts of them, all packed in and bundled together like soap bubbles. When one bubble pops, that space becomes occupied by others that are expanding.

I remember a while back NASA or someone said there were these "rivers" of galaxies all flowing in one direction toward the edge of the known universe, perhaps because there was something more massive than we could comprehend drawing the galaxies to it... I want to say there were other theories, but anyway.. What if it's because a universe next to ours "popped" or imploded and our universe was bleeding space into that void to fill the gap.

The space in the big "infinite container" is never empty, but it is always shifting. One universe pops, others simultaneously bleed and split into the space where the one popped to fill it in.

*SHRUGGGG*

Cheers

Beer and tequila are the only answer I can come to

Our little brains just can't get there just yet.

If like you say with the electron analogy where does it go and where does it come from?

I wish we can get this figured out but I'm afraid we never will.

Life moves on and so does this damn question hehe.

Originally posted by swampcricket
Thanks for all the input guys. I often ponder if the universe does have a big bang and expand then all of a sudden the is a big contraction back to a singularity but that still doesn't answer my mind banging question where the hell does it expand to? Lol if it contracts what does it pull in and then once again where does it bang to? Take a star 6 billion light years away we can see the light from it now from six billion years ago so we put ourselves (earth in the center. Take that star and put it in the center what if it is seeing light from stars 6 billion light years away from the other side of it etc etc I think I need a beer!

All I'm say'in is, why didn't you at least put the above or something like it and / or possibly even more in your op ?
Then I would have been all happy to read and give stars and flags on topics convo. But you haven't even followed ATS guidelines. Do you think that's fair to others who pump out massive threads going to a lot of trouble to bring good threads to ATS ?

Come - on partner. Great topic with no meat on the bone.

reply to post by swampcricket

What is beyond this universe? Most probably other universes with varying amounts of total energy contained within them changing outcomes as all the energy contained within them is linked to a singularity just like ours, and it's only the differences of total energy contained in any universe that can change outcomes. So what is beyond are different universes of varying sizes like a big bag of marbles.

>Time is created when something moves across space.

>The Universe is really not expanding and accelerating, it is just our perception from our frame of reference that it is.

I'll Explain
If we could slowdown the Earth moving across space, galaxies we observe speeding up away from one another within the Universe would be perceived slowing down from our frame of reference which would be increasing in speed, a tradeoff in perception like a balancing scale. If we moved faster, the galaxies would appear to speed up as time around accelerates and would slow for us here on Earth. Because our frame of reference observing time would slow relative to other things moving faster through space, and therefore not time. Meaning, everything we would be observing around our frame of reference would speedup in time progression as we slowed traveling through space. Simply put, if we speed up traveling through space time slows for us, but the things around us far off like galaxies would appear to be traveling at a faster rate through space because again it's all a tradeoff in perception like a balancing scale.

Look at it this way, swap velocity across space with size. Swapping faster and slower for increasing and decreasing in size. The bigger you get the the more space pushes out away from you. You would not notice if everything moved through space at a constant rate in it was not for the law of relativity. Because of the law of relativity combined with the geometry which does not allow for a constant time frame reference throughout the Universe as objects move at varying rates. This simply due to the way the math works out when dealing with a radius. The further away in a radius an objects moves away from a center the faster it appears to be moving if your frame of reference is doing the same as the combined rates moving away from the center compound the rate of velocity when both objects are contributing to the distance between them compound. You work the math just like a compounded interest rate. This is because the geometry dictates that if two objects that move at the same rate along two different paths of a V the rate of distance will increase between them based on a rate of increase, meaning the rate of increasing distance between them will accelerate. Now make it a spiderweb, or a sphere. Picture a Hoberman sphere. en.wikipedia.org... And then smaller ones inside like a Russian doll set, but all connected, tethered to one layer after layer to the smallest one which we today call background radiation leftover from the Big Bang. The tethers are the framework of space. It's what causes gravity due to the geometry of a vortex which is simply collected matter making a depression in the framework of space, also called the fabric of space. The indention in the fabric created by matter is call a gravity well. The more matter the deeper the well just as if you add objects on top a foam mattress. The well is a vortex. The vortex being fluted out in all directions though. If you can picture this? The closer matter, and energy, comes to the center of a gravity well the faster it accelerates toward the bottom of it.

When the Big Bang occurred the outer shell of the Primeval Atom blew off first and being tethered to the inner parts these parts unraveled at slower rates than the outer part that is allowed due to the laws of geometry involving a radius where allowed to move the fastest and still are. Because of the geometry involved the differences in rates of velocity function in reverse of a gravity well.

Because of the different rates of travel across the Universe the frame of reverences are all different depending on you speed and position to other objects in space. Now we are back to the law of relativity which cancels out any actual expansion of the Universe as it is time we observe moving and not objects away from us. The rapidly accelerating universe is an illusion. We are no larger than the Primeval Atom was because only our frame of reference moving through time has changes as we see as an increase in size when in fact it's simply all about velocity of time that we perceive as expansion of space as both are really one in the same like two sides of a balancing scale. You can't have one without the other.

This whole universe is just a recording. It has played itself over and over again. We just move along its grooves existing only when we are played.

reply to post by randyvs


Remember we all have different communication skill levels.

Even those with the best composition writing skills sometimes think readers of their OPs and posts are mind readers.