Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

This topic has been discussed in several other threads, but they are all 2 years old and dead. I figured I'd bring this back up and try and get a little more attention. Especially in regards to the pyramid-scheme in which we need to stop participating.

The thread posted really hits the high notes on this topic in about 4-5 posts, so start with reading the first and only page listed here: (Don't bother reading my post because I'll repost it here)
www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=577470

Repost:
I'm a young male driver that has never been in an accident. However I lived in a town polluted with police. It was difficult not to obey every law of the road at every second. Some things were my fault, others were perpetrated by the police state needing funds. Either way, I now have points on my license, from roughly 3 years ago.

I pay roughly $200 a month for a v8 2door 8' bed chevy pickup. It guzzles gas, with how gas prices look now, I pay literally $125-$150 to fill up my tank. It's payed off but it's 20 years old and needs repairs every few months. I budget my stuff pretty well, but I'm paying several grand for some medical bills for a really bad hangover and a broken nose. I'm literally broke, I work full time and go to school full time and have little to no social life, I pick up side jobs, I tutor, fix computers, provide consultation to several people for networking services, I mow lawns, I draw stencils for ice carvings, I make custom designed plastics, I produce video montages, I do what ever is necessary to make ends meet. However, I've run out of options

The bottom line is, I was looking for ways out of paying auto-insurance. I'm only 25, and I've already payed roughly $20k in auto-insurance that has never covered me, on a $2,000 truck. I've only been able to afford liability up until recently. Needless to say, with all of bills I have due I am in the red every month. Auto-insurance is something that I gut-wrenchingly pay every month, because every penny I earn is extremely valuable to me.

There are all these videos out now, saying STOP PARTICIPATING! Unfortunately, I don't have the means to do so, I don't own my own land, I rent an apartment, I try to grow a garden, which gets torched by the sun because the plants are on a patio, I need gas, food, shelter, water, electricity, internet (primarily for school, I take half of it with online classes), among virtually countless other small necessities that spring from my entrepreneurial enterprises. I figured the first step to not participating is building funds, Car Insurance should be the first thing to go, because I get nothing out of it.

I live in a town where everything is too far away to ride a bike every place, there is NO public transportation, so I have to have a car, I tried the scooter for a while, but I almost died literally 15x in the span of year because people don't give a s**t about scooters.

So how do I stop participating? Where can I start? How should I start with out being jailed or fined? Who do I turn to? I need help. I am exhausted.

[end repost]

So that's the point, from their points of view and mine, where do you start? I intend for this thread to be an assortment of ideas on how to realistically stop participating in the system. And how far do you not want to participate?

As in, do you want to live like the aborigines, or do you just want to be sustainably off the grid, but still live with modernized technologies? So Identifying the extent as to how far we should go before we are free, should be the first point.

Secondly, discuss the path to reaching that extent, Identifying a starting point and a 1,2, or 3 year progression towards the goal.

Finally, thank you. If we can begin to discuss the process of breaking free, maybe people will actually stop playing the keyboard her, and start living.

We must find solutions.
We must use solutions.
We must be the solution.

Owning to operate a motor vehicle is a hassle.

I'll never want a motor vehicle again.

You should catch a ride from somebody else.

It's really simple don't buy it...or at the very least only get it if your reg. is due lol,

Get a horse and buggy, works for the Amish

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


If you think your in a bad situation financially right now, then imagine what kind of situation you could be in if you didnt carry insurance and were at fault in an accident where the other motorist or passenger were injured/died.

You could be in one deep hole that you would never be able to climb out of, unless you won the lottery.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


Simple answer here......FOLLOW TRAFFIC RULES!!! Some were his fault and some were the policeman's fault??

So running a stop sign, speeding, or driving drunk is the local police's fault, right??

Drive right and safe and your insurance will drop, if not....Change companies to someone with a lower rate for a safe driver.....

Stop blaming the world for your issues......

Yes insurance absolutely 100% is a rip off.....But since we are Americans and we pay it regardless because people are too afraid to speak their minds and change things, that is the way it will be until someone stands up for rip off artists....Mainly insurance, but schooling $'s, property taxes, TAXES in general actually, energy costs....etc. I could make a list go on all day for things we all get ripped off over on a day to day basis....The beauty of living in America!!

reply to post by mytheroy


unfortunately it only takes a police man to get behind you to run your tags. I'd then be walking, having to get my vehicle towed, and have to deal with the court room hustle. I don't consider that an option.

Most states allow you to put a cash bond on file to the DMV.

All insurance means is that you are Financially capable of paying for any damages YOU cause with your motor vehicle.

Put a cash bond down, I believe in my state the amount is 10K

and you never need to buy insurance.

Driving is a PRIVILEGE not a right, You are driving on roads collectively paid for by ALL our taxes, as a requirement you need to be able to pay the damages you may cause to say a driver like ME...

Frankly I think the Germans have it right when it comes to Licenses.

If you can't afford to be a responsible driver, than guess what, you shouldn't be driving.

So how do I stop participating? Where can I start? How should I start with out being jailed or fined? Who do I turn to? I need help. I am exhausted.

Bicycle. Or take up running/walking long distances.
Only options.
Unless insurance isn't a legal requirement where you live.
The fines for driving without insurance are usually way more than what insurance costs, plus they take away your vehicle. Then you go to jail for not paying the fine.

And then if you hurt someone in an accident, and don't have insurance..........

Originally posted by DIDtm
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

If you think your in a bad situation financially right now, then imagine what kind of situation you could be in if you didnt carry insurance and were at fault in an accident where the other motorist or passenger were injured/died.

You could be in one deep hole that you would never be able to climb out of, unless you won the lottery.

I probably wouldn't be so bad off, because I would by $20,000 richer. I'm a very cautious driver, I'll take my chances about something being my fault. I've been driving for 9 years now and have not been in or caused an accident, despite other people trying to hit me at times.

More to the point I'm already in the hole, and not by my own volition. This is one of the arguments disputed in the thread I posted. Read their points, it will put my view on your point in perspective.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


I used to hate paying insurance, until a un-insured motorist crashed into my parked truck.

15k in damages that MY ins paid, and the lawsuit the INSURANCE companies lawyers made sure the guy felt his irresponsibility.

The only way I see insurance as a problem is when government makes it law that every driver has to have insurance cover. Other than that it's personal choice.

You can stop paying insurance and save up the money to the value of your own car, but then a third party liability clai could cost millions.

Otherwise you can always get pay-as-you-drive insurance, but then they have to install a gps tracker in your car.

I dont see how it is a conspiracy, insurance is a daily need, a nescessity, much like water and sewerage services. Has been since the London burnings in 1666.

There's no 'system', just cover for when you personal shtf.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Mass. cops ruined my driving record in 1 year, my insurance went from $400/yr to $3600/year, and after they hiked the rate, they demanded I pay for the whole year in full up front or they'd cancel my insurance.

I was driving a $400 crap box at the time. I laughed at the insurance agent and told her absolutely no way I can do that. She said then I'd be driving illegally, to which I said oh well I guess so. Then I moved to NH where auto insurance is optional.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

Simple answer here......FOLLOW TRAFFIC RULES!!! Some were his fault and some were the policeman's fault??

So running a stop sign, speeding, or driving drunk is the local police's fault, right??

Drive right and safe and your insurance will drop, if not....Change companies to someone with a lower rate for a safe driver.....

Stop blaming the world for your issues......

Yes insurance absolutely 100% is a rip off.....But since we are Americans and we pay it regardless because people are too afraid to speak their minds and change things, that is the way it will be until someone stands up for rip off artists....Mainly insurance, but schooling $'s, property taxes, TAXES in general actually, energy costs....etc. I could make a list go on all day for things we all get ripped off over on a day to day basis....The beauty of living in America!!

You've obviously never dealt with the police force extensively on the receiving end. Where I grew up there was a cop on every block. I've gotten seat belt tickets in parking lots, which are not public roads, but regardless. I got two driving after consuming under the age of 21 with a .00 and .01 alcasensor report. So I was hardly sloshed destroying personal and public property. I've gotten speeding tickets for 5 over on highways.

I've also taken accountability for the times I was truly at fault. I'm not blaming anyone, everything on my record is a victimless crime, however I pay out of my ass for it, and despite my positive community standing. (President of the Math Club, Soup Kitchen Volunteer/Donator, Little League Coach, President of the SGA for a year, Culinary School representative, and quite a few other, unpaid volunteer programs)

I think it's funny how you say not to blame others, then right after say, well it is all a scam, but don't put any blame forth. You can try to destroy my argument with your shill like behavior, but to be on the safe side, lets assume that I had a point I was trying to get at, and you should stick to talking about the point at hand, not the flaws of my situation.

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance

Originally posted by DIDtm
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

If you think your in a bad situation financially right now, then imagine what kind of situation you could be in if you didnt carry insurance and were at fault in an accident where the other motorist or passenger were injured/died.

You could be in one deep hole that you would never be able to climb out of, unless you won the lottery.

I probably wouldn't be so bad off, because I would by $20,000 richer. I'm a very cautious driver, I'll take my chances about something being my fault. I've been driving for 9 years now and have not been in or caused an accident, despite other people trying to hit me at times.

More to the point I'm already in the hole, and not by my own volition. This is one of the arguments disputed in the thread I posted. Read their points, it will put my view on your point in perspective.

Just throwing this out there.
20K may seem like a lot of money....and it is a lot of money.
But how far would 20K go if you fell asleep at the wheel or swerved to miss a deer and jacked some doctors 100K Mercedes, put his wife in the hospital and in the process caused 50K in property damage to the homeowners property the accident happened in front of/on?

It wouldn't go very far.

Throw in a lawsuit he the wife died. Medical bills, burial expenses, loss of income, etc....

Insurance can and will pay for a lot more than just your 2000 truck. It can, for a lack of better wording, save your life.

I say although insurance is a good idea from a theoretical standpoint it's still a business and a racket.

I personally believe that most insurance companies are thieves.

Deny, Defend, Delay!!!

Sound familiar most insurance claim adjusters?


Deny
(find any reason why the claim is not covered)

if that fails
Defend
(find any reason to reduce the claim amount) ie. "what you have black mold of death? no no you don't need an industrial hygienist and some new drywall! All you need is a fan blowing on the mold!. . .and thats all were paying for! no beat it!!!!"

if that fails
Delay
delay delay delay the payment so the money stays in the insurance coffers a little longer.

Oh and btw if you actually get to step three delay, bet your ass they have your name in a black list that all the insurance companies share with each other of "difficult clients to avoid"

Also don't think guys like "servepro" are there to help you. they are actually in cahoots with the insurance companies. the insurance companies give them tons of work in exchange for reduced claim amounts and crappy patchwork instead of fixing the problem. their there to screw you too.

Originally posted by benrl
Most states allow you to put a cash bond on file to the DMV.

All insurance means is that you are Financially capable of paying for any damages YOU cause with your motor vehicle.

Put a cash bond down, I believe in my state the amount is 10K

and you never need to buy insurance.

Driving is a PRIVILEGE not a right, You are driving on roads collectively paid for by ALL our taxes, as a requirement you need to be able to pay the damages you may cause to say a driver like ME...

Frankly I think the Germans have it right when it comes to Licenses.

If you can't afford to be a responsible driver, than guess what, you shouldn't be driving.

edit on 4-5-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Good idea, I hadn't heard of that before, I'll certainly look into that.

It seems some people are getting bogged down with the fact I have driving infractions, but the majority of them truly are minor occurrences, that still ended up putting points on my license. My point isn't, "how do I pay less insurance", I understand the system, I had many points fall off, but was advised that I should increase my coverage, and did, so that finally I was able to cover myself if an uninsured person hit me. So with the higher coverage I'm still roughly paying the same amount as when I had points.

I'm also not saying people shouldn't be held liable, but the fact that you absolutely MUST have insurance is ridiculous. The more people say, it's a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT is becoming absurd. It's mandatory in the area I live in to have a car. I live between school and work, each are ~12 miles away, going both ways. If I get out of class at noon and have to be at work, clean and presentable, by 3, how is it feasible to transport myself, without a high-speed form of transportation. It must be a right, without you can't participate in society, without the participation in society do really have any of your other rights, or even access to the pursuit of happiness?

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


Sounds like the lifestyle you live isn't conducive to the kind of change you want. You have 2 options: Change your lifestyle or quit complaining about it.

I'm not going to name the company, but there is one here in the U.S. where there are still a lot of opportunities. They have many locations all over the U.S., it's easy to get into and easy to progress into management. You don't need to shell out 10's of thousands for a college degree either. They promote from within and all they care about is if you know THEIR system well. They have a good going for them and they compensate the right people very well. You're only 25? If I were you I'd look into companies that have those types of business attributes. You have no idea how good it can be for you.

Get your foot in the door with a company like that and then transfer to a part of the country where you don't have to be so dependent on services like car insurance. Most states these days require it. It's the law. It isn't the law however that you HAVE to have a car. Trust me when I tell you that you can transfer to literally any part of this country where you can live the lifestyle that makes you happy. Go to a big city where you can walk to work or use public transportation. Even go off the grid in the country if that's what you want. There are ways of living a better life than what you have now. You just have to have the guts for the TYPE of change that may be needed to get there. And there are still good people left in this world who will help you along the way. You can't do something like this alone. Just keep a positive attitude and you'll attract them.

Good luck.

Originally posted by snowspirit

So how do I stop participating? Where can I start? How should I start with out being jailed or fined? Who do I turn to? I need help. I am exhausted.

Bicycle. Or take up running/walking long distances.
Only options.
Unless insurance isn't a legal requirement where you live.
The fines for driving without insurance are usually way more than what insurance costs, plus they take away your vehicle. Then you go to jail for not paying the fine.

And then if you hurt someone in an accident, and don't have insurance..........

That's exactly what I'm getting at, It's not logical, feasible, or reliable to manually transport myself all the places i need to be in a week by means of a bicycles or running long distances. If I ran to work at my Cooking job at the country club I work at, drenched in sweat, they would send me home. So how do I get away from doing all of this. I'm not saying I don't want to work, but I want my work to have a purpose. I like my job, I'm switching careers to a job I'd like more, that's why I am in school. So I am exploring options, but in order to raise the necessary funds to remove myself from all this, I need to make cuts. Auto-Insurance seems like it should be the first to go, especially since I've used the cheapest company in town for nearly a decade to insure my vehicles and never been in an accident, as the guys explored in the other thread, I've already payed the necessary amount to cover any accidents I've caused.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

I used to hate paying insurance, until a un-insured motorist crashed into my parked truck.

15k in damages that MY ins paid, and the lawsuit the INSURANCE companies lawyers made sure the guy felt his irresponsibility.

So while it was a nuisance at the time, everyone got what they had coming. So the uninsured motorist still had to pay the fees, while it was directly and not through a company, you still got a repaired/new vehicle. So in the long run, everything turned out fine, even though he didn't have insurance. Again, I'm not talking about people and accountability. The argument against Auto-insurance has a strong legitimate foundation. I'm talking about moving away from this system, I see Auto-insurance, the first step. I like the other guy's point of view, to drive, you need to be able to pay a certain starting amount, and then that's it.