Affidavit for the Cleveland Five- FBI Entrapment?

If you are unfamiliar with the "Cincinnati 5", a group of Anarchists, and their plan to blow up a bridge in Cincinnati, you can read about it here: www.wlwt.com...

Some are trying to argue these guys were entrapped by the FBI. After reading the entire affidavit, I can't say I agree. These guys sought out to destroy property in some way, and the FBI just held their hands through it. It's been argued they wouldn't have actually gone through with their plan if the FBI hadn't egged them on, but a full reading of the FBI's info on the case seems to show they were quite determined.

So, what say you? Is this entrapment? Were these guys just big-talking wanna-be's who wouldn't have gone through with their plan if the two FBI moles hadnt sold them the (fake) C4?

I'm interested in the discussion, please read the affidavit before commenting. It's several pages, and rather interesting:

www.greenisthenewred.com...

I read the first half of the affidavit before losing interest.

I feel the excerpts are cherry picked and the chs/informant has received training. It reads as if there was grooming by the chs.

The only way to truly know is to have access to the recordings.

Originally posted by emberscott


I read the first half of the affidavit before losing interest.

I feel the excerpts are cherry picked and the chs/informant has received training. It reads as if there was grooming by the chs.

The only way to truly know is to have access to the recordings.

So, in other words, you'll just believe what you want, regardless the actual info available.

I'm not surprised.

Deny ignorance lol

So, what say you ATSers? Did the FBI do a good job catching the evil anarchists? Score one for the Feds?

Or were they set up?

#1. They are not the "Cincinnati 5". Your article is from a Cincinnati source, but they were in Cleveland, arrested in Cleveland, and planning for action in Cleveland. Cincinnati has nothing to do with this story at all.

I am still reading through the document, but I am sitting here and just laughing. This is like a comedy routine as you read transcripts of the recorded conversations.

It is very clear to me that these guys are what is known as "useful idiots". They are stupid, they are clueless and they are being lead by the nose by an Undercover Informant who is coming up with all the ideas but letting the idiots make the actual plans and pick the actual target.

I would love to read the claims that were not actually recorded. If I had to bet money on what happened here, I would bet that this all started as a drunken conversation where someone said, "Do you think we could...." and then jokingly plan it, and it was all fun and games until the Undercover Informant said, "Well I know a guy. I bet we could really do this."

reply to post by MrWendal

but they were in Cleveland, arrested in Cleveland, and planning for action in Cleveland.

The Cleveland 5? We aren't talking about Bone Thugs N Harmony now are we? Hahaha j/k..

Anyways to the OP...I wonder how this story is going to play out...They could of been planted suspects like Zimmerman, just random people that made national NEWS...

Originally posted by MrWendal
#1. “The shark didn’t really like it when I initially deployed the clamp,” says Tipple, “but after a few seconds it returned to normal behavior. The clamp itself isn’t strong enough to cause any pain, and the dorsal fin is actually not very sensitive due to it being composed primarily of cartilage.”

Damnit!, fail me.

thx.

I would love to read the claims that were not actually recorded. If I had to bet money on what happened here, I would bet that this all started as a drunken conversation where someone said, "Do you think we could...." and then jokingly plan it, and it was all fun and games until the Undercover Informant said, "Well I know a guy. I bet we could really do this."

That was my initial assumption as well. That's usually what the FBI does in these cases. But reading the affidavit (I wish I could copy some of it here), it appears these guys had ample opportunity to back out, but they seem to have forged ahead. They were certainly 'nudged', but not very much. They sought out the explosives, chose the target, bought the explosives, placed them ,and tried to detonate them.

If anything, they are guilty of being stupid as hell.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
They could of been planted suspects like Zimmerman, just random people that made national NEWS...

You're going to have to elaborate a bit.

reply to post by stanguilles7

It is very clear to me that these guys are what is known as "useful idiots". They are stupid, they are clueless

^From Wendal...

Hopefully that can clear it up...It seems like everything that is making NEWS, the suspects are oblivious to what is going on like if they have no idea what is going on, they are nothing but test subjects....Possible mind control?

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

It is very clear to me that these guys are what is known as "useful idiots". They are stupid, they are clueless

^From Wendal...

Hopefully that can clear it up...It seems like everything that is making NEWS, the suspects are oblivious to what is going on like if they have no idea what is going on, they are nothing but test subjects....Possible mind control?

edit on 3-5-2012 by KonquestAbySS because: (no reason given)

Mind control?

No, just stupid kids who think that using violence and property destruction to express their immature, privileged male angst is productive.

They were smart enough to suspect the mole was a fed. But then they bought what they thought was C$ from him anyway.

Idiocy.

One of those 'perps' has an interesting history - supposedly suicidal the police had to talk him off a bridge back in February, then they had them in their custody at a mental hospital, days later he turns up involved in this plot to blow up a bridge.

All the suspects have a lengthy record of juvenile delinquency, according this article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. These losers look like the perfect patsy's for any sort of false flag, too weak-minded to see the FBI leading them along on "their" plot. I'll reserve judgement for now on whether this was a legitimate bust by the feds or another "underwear bomber" operation.

reply to post by stanguilles7

The men also face a new charge -- attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction

L.A. Times

^^Really so Bush had to go all the way to Iraq when these guys got a weapon of mass destruction here in the U.S.? Something is really fishy now....

I don't know how 5 stupid looking individuals could acquire such a thing...

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
These losers look like the perfect patsy's for any sort of false flag, too weak-minded to see the FBI leading them along on "their" plot. .

That's maybe the funniest part. They DID suspect him, right from the start. But they still asked to buy weapons and explosives from him, and looked up directions for making explosives on his computer. Idiots.

It's all in the affidavit.

I was reading that affidavit you provided and this caught my eye immediately…

a. Title 18, United States Code, Section 371 Conspiracy: If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy…

So basically your busted if you start conspiracies...Especially if you don't mean harm...So if you talk crap about any agency your busted because your trying to expose their corruption...

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
I was reading that affidavit you provided and this caught my eye immediately…

a. Title 18, United States Code, Section 371 Conspiracy: If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy…

So basically your busted if you start conspiracies...Especially if you don't mean harm...So if you talk crap about any agency your busted because your trying to expose their corruption...

That isn't even logically coherent.

reply to post by stanguilles7

That isn't even logically coherent.

Your right the affidavit isn't logically coherent...Sounds like a weak reason if you ask me...

That is like saying everyone here on ATS is a suspect or some sort...

reply to post by KonquestAbySS


derp

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

The men also face a new charge -- attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction

L.A. Times

^^Really so Bush had to go all the way to Iraq when these guys got a weapon of mass destruction here in the U.S.? Something is really fishy now....

I don't know how 5 stupid looking individuals could acquire such a thing...

edit on 3-5-2012 by KonquestAbySS because: (no reason given)

They acquired such a thing because an Confidential Informant told them he could get it!!!

Reading this thing is hysterical to me. Read #40 and #41. These guys, much like I speculated in a previous thread, were dead broke. They have no money to buy this stuff. In #40 they are going to discuss payment options.... like you can put c4 on layaway!

In #41 one of the suspects talks to the FBI Undercover officer who is supplying the C4 about working for him in order to pay for the C4. Of course if you read the earlier parts, this is of particular amusement because they group had previously discussed selling weed as a way to pay for the share that the Confidential Informant was not able to cover.

I am going to finish reading before I post anything else, but this is such a joke!! So these useful idiots agreed to buy 2 bricks of C4 at the low low price of $75.00 per brick, but since the undercover agent happened to have 8 bricks, they cut a deal to sell all 8 bricks for $50.00 per brick

This is too much.... did these 5 idiots think this was the ebay of military grade weapons?

Originally posted by MrWendal


In #41 one of the suspects talks to the FBI Undercover officer who is supplying the C4 about working for him in order to pay for the C4. Of course if you read the earlier parts, this is of particular amusement because they group had previously discussed selling weed as a way to pay for the share that the Confidential Informant was not able to cover.

I'm not sure I see your point. They didnt have the money, but they stil asked for the explosives. It was Wright who asked the informant if he knew where he could get some C4. Then they even TOLD the informant they would sell drugs to GET the money. That's not exactly making them appear innocent in my mind.

As early as #15, Wright was telling the CHS (informant) that they had been planning on using explosives to destroy property. At #17 he said he had scoped out bridges as a possible target.

At #22 he is telling the CHS (informant) that he will show him how to make explosives.

At #25 it is Wright who brings up to the informant that he wants to buy C4. It is NOT the informants suggestion. It is the perps. NOT entrapment.

(Really wish I could figure out how to quote from that PDF)