May Day off to a Stellar Start in Oakland. What's the Message Again?? Who is the target??

reply to post by jibeho


I see that you're doing everything in your power to stop them from stealing headlines.
The alternate, truthful story is out there, it's even brought to you here on ATS, yet you focus on the negative which the MSM feeds you and then have the nerve to say the message is lost? The message isn't lost, it's ignored.

reply to post by stanguilles7


This is what I thought

This needs to be more well known

thanks for the input!

The Black Bloc can be worked with, I saw it work well here in Vancouver during the Olympics. The main organizers of the No2010 movement had a deal with them that they would remain peaceful during all of the large public protests and they were totally respectful of that. In turn, they organized their own day, where they made it known to everyone that they would be performing a direct action against the streets leading out of the downtown area and out to the Olympic venues.

They did their thing, smashed windows, etc and got into a big brawl with the cops and some people were arrested. BUT in the end, those who did not want to be a part of that, were not. It worked well with the BS media also because they couldnt tag that protest as part of the larger one because it had been so clearly identified by the Black Bloc themselves as their own thing. It also made them responsible for what they had done and they released their own statement to the media (which I think none of them read or used)

Anyways, this might be a way to solve the problem. Like I said, it worked here, its worth a try in other cities.

Originally posted by wrdwzrd
The Black Bloc can be worked with, I saw it work well here in Vancouver during the Olympics. The main organizers of the No2010 movement had a deal with them that they would remain peaceful during all of the large public protests and they were totally respectful of that. In turn, they organized their own day, where they made it known to everyone that they would be performing a direct action against the streets leading out of the downtown area and out to the Olympic venues.

They did their thing, smashed windows, etc and got into a big brawl with the cops and some people were arrested. BUT in the end, those who did not want to be a part of that, were not. It worked well with the BS media also because they couldnt tag that protest as part of the larger one because it had been so clearly identified by the Black Bloc themselves as their own thing. It also made them responsible for what they had done and they released their own statement to the media (which I think none of them read or used)

Anyways, this might be a way to solve the problem. Like I said, it worked here, its worth a try in other cities.

No. Youre wrong. It did not 'work well'. Black Bloc's actions in Vancouver only served to make average people think the larger protests against the Olympics were associated.

Furthermore, they did not limit their actions to just one day of smashing up a few stores downtown (that had NOTHING to do with the Olympics). They also tried to takeover at least one peaceful march through east Hastings, and were essentially chased off by the march organizers.

All Black Bloc EVER DOES is discredit the larger movement. Their ORIGINAL purpose was to provide protection to the larger movement, either by literally defending peaceful protesters from violent cops, or by creating distractions in other parts of the city that would keep the cops buys and allow larger marches to occur. But since 2000, those tactics have devolved into Black Bloc being little more than agent provocateurs who justify, in the public mind, massive police infrastructure and mass arrests of peaceful demonstrators.

NO ONE wants them around any more. They are rich college kids and fbi agents. # them.

Some good background on the radical history of activism in Oakland...


www.motherjones.com...

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by jibeho

 

I see that you're doing everything in your power to stop them from stealing headlines.
The alternate, truthful story is out there, it's even brought to you here on ATS, yet you focus on the negative which the MSM feeds you and then have the nerve to say the message is lost? The message isn't lost, it's ignored.

edit on 2-5-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

What are you talking about?? I don't get my information from the MSM in regards to Occupy. I don't need to!!

The Truth? I know all about the truth that is driving this movement.

I know that 5 local members of Occupy Cleveland attempted to blow up a bridge that I drive on twice a day. That's a headline you can't hide from.

Who am I stopping from stealing the headlines?? The bongo beaters?? There is no story there because they have no clue what they are doing and why they are doing it.

The message of the Occupy movement was lost last year when they decided to ride the bandwagon of every cause that could fit under their blankets and still coming up with new causes and actions simply because they don't want any solutions. Solutions can only mean that their little party must end....

Sorry to tell you but the party will definitely end but not in a way that they or you think. It's too late for your movement because the Thugs will ALWAYS take the headlines and will ALWAYS motivate increased crackdowns.

Time to lose the naivete...

Originally posted by jibeho


I know that 5 local members of Occupy Cleveland attempted to blow up a bridge that I drive on twice a day. That's a headline you can't hide from.

You 'know' that, eh? And how do you 'know' that?

These five guys were self-decried 'anarchists' who were dissatisfied with the occupy movement. To claim they were 'members' of a group that has no formal membership, and that they were dissatisfied with is nonsense. They attended a few marches. They were not organizers for the group. They were people who wanted to blow things up.

The FBI supplied them with all their bombs. Think about that.

www.cleveland.com...

reply to post by jibeho


You know exactly what you are doing. You know that these blackbloc people are not part of Occupy, they've been doing this BS for years, you know that Occupy denounces them. Instead of saying BlackBlock disrupts Occupy march you say Occupiers turn violent.

reply to post by stanguilles7


Funny! At least two of these guys listed their employers as Occupy Cleveland including the ring leader.

Stupid is as stupid does and these guys are stupid. I'm glad the FBI sold these guys inert explosives before they could buy it from someone else. Or worse attempt to make their own explosives. The FBI did their job.

Official Membership list!!?? That's a laugh riot.

reply to post by Kali74


Black Bloc has attached themselves to Occupy. Period. Perhaps the occupiers can evict them from the next "Action".

Interesting thing I saw reported from a journalist on the ground in NY yesterday was thugs dressed as black bloc attacking press and trying to trash their cameras.

To me, that doesn't sound like the actions of anarchists, those are the actions of the NYPD, who have repeatedly arrested reporters, destroyed equipment and tried to remove the evidence of their brutality.

If you believe automatically that this was Black Bloc and don't even consider that it could have been NYPD hired goons, you're more f'ing retarded than the idiots in black doing the damage.

All of this aside, a few smashed windows is a very small price to pay for the LEGAL RIGHT to protest.

I always find it very amusing when right-wingers scream about their rights and the constitution, while screaming about how inconvenient it is that people they don't agree with have rights too.

Seems to be typical of Republicans and the right-wing in general that all the rights people have are great as long as they agree with every opinion. The moment you want to protest something they don't agree with, the rights of the American citizen no longer apply.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by MrWendal

 

To be clear, the people who were attacking small businesses WERE confronted by other protesters and regular citizens. These black-clad trust fund wannabes and their fbi handlers DO NOT represent the larger movement, and the larger movement does not support nor condone their actions, and never had.

But I agree, I'd like to see these guys all captured, unmasked, and identified. But that would require a level of violence that would likely create an even more hostile environment because some of them are cops.

Then so be it!

If it creates a more hostile environment to expose the truth, then so be it.

I have no doubt that many of the violent protesters are plants or useful idiots who were incited by the plants. However, if you are the store owner do you really care? I don't. I care about protecting my property. If I was a store owner, I'd bruise you from head to toe with a paintball gun. You may get away, but you'll walk around for the next week tattooed up and you wont be able to hide it. If an a protester, I'm taking you down myself. I will turn you in to Police, and find out who you are. Their presence and actions do more harm to the cause. Expose the truth, never fear it, no matter where it leads.

reply to post by detachedindividual

Interesting thing I saw reported from a journalist on the ground in NY yesterday was thugs dressed as black bloc attacking press and trying to trash their cameras.

To me, that doesn't sound like the actions of anarchists, those are the actions of the NYPD, who have repeatedly arrested reporters, destroyed equipment and tried to remove the evidence of their brutality.

To me it sounds like the actions of the the Black Bloc Bunch. They will destroy anything that they can get their greasy little hands on that is within arms reach. That's what they do.

Perhaps you have missed their creative actions in the UK over the years. Its what they do. HIt and run, Hit and run and they don't like close up photos.

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Funny! At least two of these guys listed their employers as Occupy Cleveland including the ring leader.

Citation needed.^^

Or, read the affidavit where they repeatedly are recorded as saying how dissatisfied they are with Occupy, and how they dont like them at all. Because connecting them to 'occupy' if false, disingenuous, and, frankly, retarded.

Source:www.greenisthenewred.com...

reply to post by stanguilles7


Back in March, Baxter was described as an Occupy Cleveland Organizer and got arrested for his work at Occupy Cleveland.

www.tumblr.com...

Hayne was working for them back in October

lakewood-oh.patch.com...

Most of the group lists "#occupycleveland" as their "employer" on Facebook. Brandon Baxter, one of the men arrested for the plot, was also arrested at an Occupy Cleveland protest in March, Third Base Politics observes.

Baxter was protesting foreclosures and the mortgage lending system. "I was hoping that this would be a great way to get Cleveland more involved by showing the potential that a small group of dedicated people can have in making an impact," Baxter told The Cleveland Plain Dealer at the time. "Even though we are not in any government position or in Congress, we do have the power."

campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com...

Baxter the spokesman for Occupy Cleveland

Brandon Baxter of Lakewood said he had no regrets for making sure people heard the message.

"I took the risk of getting arrested because I feel the powers that be, whoever they might be -- on all levels of government and those who hold corporate power -- are not listening because not enough people are actually taking a stance" against foreclosures, he said.

www.cleveland.com...

What more do you need to see? How is connecting them to Occupy Cleveland False? Do tell!!

Originally posted by jibeho


What more do you need to see? How is connecting them to Occupy Cleveland False? Do tell!!

edit on 3-5-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)

Well, Like I said, you could read the actual FBI Affidavit which details their dissatisfaction with Occupy from the beginning.

www.greenisthenewred.com...

But knowing that might take a while, and isn't just a faceborg post, I wont hold my breath...

reply to post by stanguilles7


I read the full complaint. Did not see any employers listed other than reported work done for the FBI informant regarding some rental properties.

Bottom line is that these guys wanted to take things further and they tried. All the way down to attempting to detonate the bomb. They are also know to be attached to Occupy Cleveland. Plain and simple as source by numerous articles and arrests.

Are trying to say that they are not attached to OC? Disgruntled or not OC was their breeding ground and at least Baxter associated himself with them as recently as March 2012. Disgruntled workers show up on the job everyday. This is no different.

Originally posted by jibeho
They are also know to be attached to Occupy Cleveland. Plain and simple as source by numerous articles and arrests.

And yet totally contradicted by the official FBI report you claim you read.

Hmmmm

You are intent on repeating a falsehood, no different than the Dem talking heads who claim the whole tea party are 'racists' because of the actions or words of a handful of individuals. It's transparently disingenuous.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by jibeho
They are also know to be attached to Occupy Cleveland. Plain and simple as source by numerous articles and arrests.

And yet totally contradicted by the official FBI report you claim you read.

Hmmmm

You are intent on repeating a falsehood, no different than the Dem talking heads who claim the whole tea party are 'racists' because of the actions or words of a handful of individuals. It's transparently disingenuous.

edit on 3-5-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

What are you talking about!! You asked for sources linking these guys to OC and I linked to those including the recent March arrest of Baxter who was acting on behalf of OC when arrested.

You keep going back to the FBI complaint form for some reason. The complaint details the whole action plan. Is there a portion of the complaint that states that these guys were NOT part of OC. If so I missed it.

You have yet to prove that these guys were NOT part of OC. Specifically Baxter and Haynes.

Done! You are clearly intent on baiting for some reason...

It really seems to me the OCCUPY protests main goal is simply to cause dissension between police and protesters. Throw and break stuff, block public areas, and then claim police brutality when they get rightfully kicked out or arrested.

This reminds me of the Christian T-shirt thread I just read. A few people complained and a boy was forced to change his shirt. Liberals agree and clap for that because they agree. You might offend someone! Here at OCCUPY you have way more people complaining and being offended... But do they stop? Of course not, because they don't agree with you this time. It has nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with pushing their opinion on everyone else. All the shop owners whose stores are vandalized and shoplifted, business people trying to get to work, city people who don't want the parks completely destroyed... but does OCCUPY they listen and stop? Nope.