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Originally posted by IronArm
I was laying in bed last night, and a thought came to my head. What has formed civiizations opinions or moral structure?
Personally, I have Christian faith, so that has created my alignment to a standard of living.
However, if you are one of agnostic or atheist belief structure, what has determined how you live your life? Has the surrounding media made you, you? Has it been influence of your cultural upbringing and ancestiral heirachy?
C.S. Lewis, of the "Narnia" fame, had outlined in "Mere Christianity" that all moral stucture (moral law) was inbred into human capacity, and that we had to kill off any form of concience or be brought into a style of thinking which was contrary to inner knowlegde in order to commit crimes to humanity and to self.
Does this make sense to you? Or do you have alternate theories as to why we have Right and Wrong and why those without a "faith" (even some within a faith stucture) have so many shades of gray?
Originally posted by IronArm
I was laying in bed last night, and a thought came to my head. What has formed civiizations opinions or moral structure?
Personally, I have Christian faith, so that has created my alignment to a standard of living.
However, if you are one of agnostic or atheist belief structure, what has determined how you live your life? Has the surrounding media made you, you? Has it been influence of your cultural upbringing and ancestiral heirachy?
C.S. Lewis, of the "Narnia" fame, had outlined in "Mere Christianity" that all moral stucture (moral law) was inbred into human capacity, and that we had to kill off any form of concience or be brought into a style of thinking which was contrary to inner knowlegde in order to commit crimes to humanity and to self.
Does this make sense to you? Or do you have alternate theories as to why we have Right and Wrong and why those without a "faith" (even some within a faith stucture) have so many shades of gray?
Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
First off all know through conscience what is right and wrong.
For the shades of gray ( which I do not except, either it is right or wrong) a few step into it and then others follow, not caring that God whose name is Jesus will judge them in the end for their transgressions. Yet once enough are crossing the line of right and wrong many others who would not normally do wrong justify their actions on the old saying everyone else is doing it, and then add the times change adage to help their conscience along the path of destruction.
No man could ever be truly good with out God in his life. I am not saying those who do not believe in God do not do some good acts but they justify their "gray area acts" like stealing from the company they work at because they do not pay me well enough or I gave some guy on the street 5 buck.
No one with out God can be truly just to others as we pick and chose who we will help, this is across the board on belief. We will help one person because it seems in vogue and not another because the are dirty and smell.
Right and wrong are absolute only man's lust for sin defines right and wrong.
Either murder is wrong all the time or it is not, why can you justify it as right because the Mayans were doing it, or Hitler was doing it or Stalin, Pol Pot ect ect
No for me Right and Wrong are not a product of time, they are the very principles the Jesus gave us.
Originally posted by ltdan08
reply to post by IronArm
One of the things that bothered me about "Mere Christianity," was that Lewis posited that morality stems from belief in Christ; that he gives you the moral compass needed to be a good person.
But, Christianity and the Bible justify acts such as slavery, mistreatment (submission) of women, genocide, among other weird and deplorable behaviors. I'm guessing you have a Bible and have some knowledge of what's in it, so I'm not going to start listing verses, though I can if necessary.
Continuing, there is a simple metric by which to judge yourself and what is right and wrong. Simply ask yourself, "Is what I'm doing service to myself or service to others?" If you live your life in service to others, the "right path" will manifest itself in front of you.
We don't need a book that was conscripted by an atheist emperor (Constantine) to tell us what's right and wrong.
S+F anyway for good discussion prompt and the fact that you're asking and not necessarily assuming.edit on 16-4-2012 by ltdan08 because: I guess I'll flag this...
Originally posted by smithjustinb
For Christians-
Don't you see that by calling things "bad" or "evil", you are serving a Satanic agenda that you don't have to serve? Remember, it was Satan that came in the garden bringing the knowledge of differentiation between good and evil. See? Satan wants you to see evil, but you don't have to. Judging is a slap in the face to the creator. You are basically saying, "God, you're not good at what you do."
Originally posted by IronArm
I was laying in bed last night, and a thought came to my head. What has formed civiizations opinions or moral structure?
Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy
I have eaten meat my whole life but nowadays I have started to think all those poor feller animals who suffer in their little cages just because we want to eat our asses to obesity.
Im not vegetarian, yet. Although I have ingreasingly started to think about it. But this thread started me thinking about the subject of right and wrong. I wish there would be a solution to end suffering of animals. In my eyes they have soul and wisdom in them.
On the flip of the coin, some animals eat other animals too, so in that sense it relieves me little. BUT the things we humans do to animal kingdom is like nazis did to jews. Its horrible. And just because corporate markets want more money.edit on 16-4-2012 by RhinestoneCowboy because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Originally posted by IronArm
I was laying in bed last night, and a thought came to my head. What has formed civiizations opinions or moral structure?
On the most basic biosociological level, "right" is generally anything that allows the members of society to establish social systems to safely procreate and raise children. "Wrong" is anything that might interfere with that.
The problem arises when you have two separate tribes or nations and one has control over scarce resources the other one needs, and neither side is in a position to bargain or compromise. Then both sides, in an attempt to maintain or protect the ability of their own people to procreate, justify violent conflict.
That's why the greatest threat to humanity these days is... peace. Not war. It has us producing way too many children safely, and pushing the available resources of the planet to the maximum to raise them. Not too far from now in the future, lack of water and food, and pandemics, will kill off more people than we ever killed in wars.
You claim that no one can truly be good without god, but I believe that since god doesn't exist, good and evil are subjective terms which vary depending on your cultural and/or social upbringing. It's not something that any god gave us, but rather something that we've developed over time based on the standards of our society. For some reason you seem to believe that those who deny the existence of your god are inherently evil, yet many of us promote love, harmony and acceptance, actively give to charity, and are considered honorable role models in our society. Likewise, the prison system is filled with people who profess to follow god, yet commit crimes against others, promote hate and intolerance, and only care about themselves. I'm not good because I fear god, I'm good because over the course of my life I've come to understand, and embrace, the principles that are generally considered to be good or acceptable.
reply to post by IronArm
I hate to say it, but this makes absolute sense. 7 Billion and rising...is that right? Excess of unsupportable life?