Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Okay so I'll try to keep this as short as possible. First off I had no idea where to post this so chose the rant section, if this was wrong please move it, thank you.

I wasn't going to post about what happened to me and my family but events today have changed that and I really need some help/advice.

Recently my partner and I had a baby together, we had 2 already and both were delivered at hospital. My partner wasn't happy with the experience and neither was I. I looked into home births, which led me to the subject of unassisted home birth. This might sound really scary, but when you put the amount of research in that I did it's not what you think. Any way it fitted what we wanted and after learning all we could we decided to go for it!

I will add that during the pregnancy my partner was inspected by a midwife and really hurt her. That day and the next she could barely walk! It was towards the end of the pregnancy and I told her that if they are hurting you don't go back! She was scared about this because she felt that she had to do these examinations or she would get in trouble. I informed her that there was no law to make you attend these examinations. She didn't go back after that, she was maybe a month away at this point.

There was another event that shaped our view. Even though we had already decided what we were going to do. My partner was called into the doctors surgery because of the results of a blood test, she was panicked and tried to find out what the problem was over the phone, but they wouldn't tell her! Must be serious we thought. We find out later that the blood test showed she was 1 point below the threshold of her iron! That was it? Apparently so... The doc gave her 'ferrous fumerate' was is an iron supplement, I asked him what was in it, to which he said "iron, and other stuff". What was the other stuff? He didn't know! I tell him that I am skeptical of the health industry as I believe they pander to the pharmaceutical industry. He informed me that they do not get their drugs from pharmaceutical industry anymore! Really?

Right so hopefully you can see why we wanted to do what we did. There are many other reasons but I won't go into that here.

The day came and my partner was getting contractions, we had everything set up, pool, meditation music, candles etc... He was born and it was a fantastic experience. I felt as though I could let go more as we didn't have loads of people about us.

3 days later I remembered that my partner had a midwife appointment coming, so thinking I was being nice I phoned up the hospital to cancel it, after all our son was here and feeding and was healthy. Why rock the boat? The lady on the other end was a bit taken aback when I informed her that he was here, but said that she would pass it on to the midwives. Thinking nothing more of it we went about our normal routine...

About 6 hours later there is a knock on the door, it was the police! My partner answered and was frightened, I came to the door seconds later and asked them what they wanted. They said that they were concerned for the welfare of our son! He was in my partners arms at the time. I told them to look at him and that he was fine! They insisted on coming in so I asked to see a warrant! They told me they didn't need one as they would just use section 17 (life and limb) and force their way in! My partner was pleading with me to let them in so under duress I did.

The midwives were waiting on the pavement and came in when the police had bullied us into letting them in. One midwife came straight in and took my son off of my partner, and started doing the examination! I was protesting the whole time that this was against my human rights etc... After some time of pleading my case (it fell on deaf ears) I suddenly mentioned that the midwives need CONSENT to do what they were doing! The oldest one immediately jumped up and said she would leave as we have removed consent! We never gave it to begin with! And if they needed consent how on earth could they come with the police? As they left they threatened to call the social services on us! My partner (having gave birth 3 days previously) was petrified and pleaded with them to come back in! Which they did eventually. They checked him out and he was fine! As if we didn't know! Personally I would have just let them leave! But I understand why she didn't.

After the examination my partner said, "so that's it now? You won't call the SS? To which they said, well that's up to our manager! Even though they knew he was fine they still went ahead and called them! Please bare in mind that we had done nothing wrong by law! We were very informed and had back up plans in place!

So it was about 2 and a half weeks later when the SS arrived (they must have been really concerned). I told them what had happened but refused them entry into our house. They made all kinds of crazy accusations like that he had missed his 6 week and 8 week check ups (these check ups are not law.), he was 3 weeks old at the time!

They went away and came back later with the police! I told them they were not coming in either and that I had already told these people everything! Also I had contacted the manager. Eventually after a phone call to her manager they left saying "we'll leave you tonight but you still got to have a meeting"! Really? For what? Well days went past, then weeks, nothing! They were so concerned for our children obviously!

During this time we had gone to the police to make a complaint regarding the abuse of powers etc... We asked for the referral and it came back that the midwives told the police that they didn't even know my partner was pregnant! She had been to scans, midwife appointments, the lot! Regardless of this there is no law to compel you to inform anyone of a pregnancy or birth! There is a law that says you must register the baby within 48 days and that's it!

So the midwives lied to the police! Will there be any arrests? Nope! I get to see someone regarding this case and he tried to hide the fact of what the midwives had said! He wouldn't give me a copy of the referral either! But I finally get him to admit what the midwives had said. We make another appointment to discuss things more formally. I decided in the spare time to right out our complaint. When we went back they wouldn't take my written statement because I am not my partner! lol... I told them that she will sign it! She told them that she would too! They refused to accept it saying they couldn't as I'd written it. This is another lie!

Damn I've nearly ran out of space, I applaud you if you got this far!

2 months pass and we still don't hear from the SS. Seems they have gone? We move area to be closer to her mum and because we lived in a bad area anyway. We've been here now for about a month. Today we get a knock on the door and it's the SS again! This time they are saying it is suspicious because I wouldn't let the other lying scumbags in! Really? I sent this lot away too!

There is more that I missed out, maybe if you guys have any questions/advice the rest can come out.

So yeah, there you go. HELP PLEASE!

So yeah, there you go. HELP PLEASE!

Wow, give your wife a massage and buy her some flowers, that must be terrible for a new Mother to go through that.

reply to post by boncho


It wasn't pleasant mate! It soured the experience somewhat and now 5 months later we have the SS back again! We did nothing wrong and are being harassed by these mini hitlers!

I'm sure she will be happy to read your message! Thanks.

Keep on slamming the door in their faces and try to get help from the authorities until they're tired of hearing from you and settle this thing. I also suggest you hire a lawyer if you have the money, it sounds like you and your partner will need one in the near future if this goes too far. Just start looking into lawyers and hang on tight. The best of health to you, your partner, and the new beautiful baby boy.

You need a lawyer, ASAP.

However, you should have taken the baby in to the hospital for an exam just to be absolutely sure he/she was healthy. Unless you are a trained doctor, there are some things you just cannot know for sure. If you would have done that, I think you would not be in this situation. I'm not saying that you were being irresponsible but it would have saved you guys so much drama and stress. I support home births, but there still needs to be a doctor ( a real one, not a midwife) involved. I know this from experience. I have friends who have 6 girls, all of which were home births. They did not use a doctor or midwife, they had a son last year that was born with fluid on his brain. He seemed fine and healthy for the first couple of days, but when his brain swelled he had a seizure and died. If she had taken him in for an exam they would have caught that and treated the little guy. Because they did not take him to the doctor they are also facing some backlash by Social Services.
Congrats on your new baby, and I hope this does not blow up into a big giant thing for you guys! But seriously contact a lawyer who understands your point in this issue.

reply to post by Myomistress


Thanks dude, I will keep on fighting, it's crazy to be honest. When we were making the compliant with the police we eventually had to go through the IPCC to get heard, even though nothing came from it. Any way through that process I met a copper who was okay. He phoned up the SS to find out what was going on and he came back to tell me that the SS had no concerns!

So why the hell come back again now? A lawyer would be a good idea. Unfortunately we don't have the funds. But I do a lot of research myself so I will just have to keep on doing that.

Thanks again, He is smashing btw, he's a lump too! He's 5 months and nearly 2 stones already!

I cant say any of what you have shared surprises me! It just goes to show how far 'the nanny state' as gone. Its absolutely ridiculous the way you have been treat. I would personally seek legal advice(initial consultations are sometimes free with certain practices) and fight back against the establishment. For anything to change, and to regain some of our rights and freedoms we are going to have to make a stand in certain situations such as this and just hope to have our day in court and a fair hearing to boot. Local press involvement(they tend not to be ruled by TPTB) can sometimes help as it makes an interesting feature and sometimes this can lead to radio interviews,small snippets in the National newspapers and feature articles in magazines etc. Home births have been going on since the beginning of our time on this planet, I mean who did the 6 and 8 week check up on the cavewomens babies or in the peasant villages of the middle ages etc.

I think your really courageous to take a stand on this and hope you see it through, I wish you all the luck in the world. Congratulations on your latest addition to the family!

reply to post by lilowl53


I understand your point, but I didn't want him to go into hospital because they are not clean to be honest mate. They use alcohol rubs instead of washing their hands. It came out recently that this gel is not adequate to kill winter vomiting virus!

Taking your baby to a place full of sick people has it's risks too! Especially when you're stuck in a waiting room for hours! I don't have much faith in the system. If you can tell me that no babies have ever been accidentally or intentionally killed in hospital then I would definitely do it. But like with everything you have to weigh up the risks...

Did you read the part where the midwives hurt my partner during an exam? Or when the doctor lied to us about where the drugs come from? Why did he recommend drugs anyway? Iron comes naturally in our food! It certainly didn't warrant taking something that was potentially harmful to an unborn baby.

It's a shame about the case you mentioned, but this kind of thing is rare to be honest. After all women have been giving birth at home for thousands of years with no midwife/doctor.

I find people are way too trusting with their health care. The old trust me I'm a doctor! don't think people should just blindly trust them. Especially when they lie to your face.

But thanks any way.

reply to post by dooleysleftleg


Yeah those are pretty much my feelings exactly! Thank You, I'm not crazy then!

I did try the local papers and we were interviewed but I don't even know if they published it... To be honest I don't think they liked the fact that I was making complaints with the police and midwives, they seemed really off. I don't think I'd try that route again.

I may try to get an initial consultation though, that is a good idea thanks.

I want people to know that there are other options and that people shouldn't be treated like this for doing something that is only natural! Interference in many cases can cause problems. I always use the example of animals in captivity. There are some that they just have to let get on with it as otherwise the mother could reject her young or there can be other complications.

I agree with what one poster said about getting a Dr. to examine, just to be safe. In addition I would contact Legal Aid I think they can probably get these people off you, and if not maybe they can give you some legal advice. Good luck. God Bless.

Sorry, but I am with the mid wives on this. You were completely irresponsible to not have the baby checked out. You are not a doctor and there could be a hundred things wrong that you can't see, liver problems, size problems, breathing problems, heart problems.

Not getting the baby adequate treatment raises a concern and that is why they called social services. Because then they have to wonder what else you are not doing.

If I was the midwife, I would of called the cops too.

The hospital excuse is lame. Millions of babies are born in hospitals and are just fine. If you were concerned about cleanliness, just as the doctor to wash his hands and/or put on gloves.

OR at the very least, go to a pediatrician.

They don't care about your rights, they care about the welfare of the newborn. Which you refused treatment for on your own paranoia. You worry that the baby can get sick in the hospital, but you ran a much BIGGER risk by not having the baby looked at.

As for the low iron, that can be serious as iron helps you carry oxygen, adn to the baby as well. What the dr. may have been referring too is that they don't buy the SUPPLEMENTS from pharmaceutical companies

People are still iffy about home births in general, never mind unassisted births.
The medical profession will do anything to get you to give birth in hospital. Why? Because everything is on hand in case of emergency, and yes I do appreciate sometimes/most times emergencies don't occur. Also midwives are scared silly that if they assist in a home birth and something goes wrong they end up getting sued in the backside and struck off or worse given some god awful charge by the law courts which could have been avoided had they been in hospital.

Two of my children were born with the cord tight around their necks, had I not been in hospital or had to rely on my then partner to deal with that they would both be dead, not that I'd have been around to have another child anyway due to heavy bleeding.

They just want to check the baby over, do a heel prick test it's just what they do. You can't expect them to not get the SS in if you point blank refuse.

reply to post by nixie_nox


You are entitled to your opinion and I know exactly where you are coming from, however, doctors or midwives are not the be all and end all! They often over prescribe (look at the antibiotic problem we are facing), they often consult google, they often do not know what they are giving!

Did I say low iron was not a problem? Being 1 point below the threshold is not a big deal, certainly not something you would cause stress over. We have to examine what a threshold is! Do they take age, size, weight into consideration? No! It is a blanket threshold! I'm sorry but not all women are the same! And regardless of that you are completely ignoring the fact that iron comes from FOOD! The doctor could of advised iron rich veg/meat.

I said to the doc that I didn't trust the health industry because they pander to the pharmaceutical company! He was trying to convince me that they do not get drugs from them! Besides the ferrous fumorous WAS from a pharmaceutical company! So... What were you saying?

YOU perceive that I put my child at risk, I perceive that taking a baby to a place where sick people congregate as dangerous! Babies are one of the highest risk groups for viruses because of their underdeveloped immune system!

You say I did it because of my paranoia, well I could turn that back on you! You let someone else deal with your health care because of your paranoia!

At the end of the day no law was broken! Everyone is potentially at risk! Every house you walk past COULD contain an abuser! But you can't go round forcing your way into their houses!

You would call the police and lie to them? You would say that you didn't even know she was pregnant?

Also why have the option to not consent if they can just threaten you for exercising it!

You have every right to deal with your kids how you feel is right! I would defend your right to do that! I also have the right to protect my child how I feel is best!

Also in the end he did get checked out! And was fine! Yet still social services?

It seems to me that you are either in the health care industry or you have someone close to you that is, or you are just a control freak!

How about the case where someone was putting bleach in the saline solution? People died! How about harold shipman? The list is ridiculous! To say that I'm paranoid is ridiculous! This # happens and it is a real risk!

Many, many children are born at home unassisted with no problems... Btw she was low risk throughout the pregnancy! If there had of been complications there is always 999 or I had a neighbor on hand to take us!

reply to post by Iamschist


Have doctors ever mis-diagnosed? Have doctors over prescribed? Do doctors give drugs for EVERY illness? Yes, Yes and Yes! I'm not saying I would never take my child to the doctors, but at 3 days old it is too risky in my opinion!

Things can happen and babies die! In and out of hospital!

Proof is in the pudding, my son is fit and healthy.

Just today I was on the phone to my friend who has a one year old, he had his MMR recently and he's been sick as a dog and came out in a nasty rash all over his body! They had to take him back to the doctors who said, oh we wouldn't expect it to be this bad! Here have some cream!

I totally respect anyone that wants to make the decision to consult a doctor, that is fine by me. I think others should respect my decision too! Personally I have not had a doctor for 13 years! Guess what? I'm still here.

reply to post by Suspiria


People can be iffy about whatever they like! They can worry about red tape as much as they like! That is not thinking of the mother and child at all!

Because YOU couldn't trust your partner everyone should do what YOU think? I'm sorry that you couldn't trust him, but that is not my fault...

Go read the NMC website on the issue of consent then come back and make that last statement again!

Basically because you do not feel confident enough, you don't think anyone else should be! You think midwives should value THEIR career over the life of mother and child! There can be emergencies, yes. That's what 999 is for!

reply to post by mee30


Whoa! I am on your side! I was just saying to keep the law off you and to ensure the baby has no underlying problems. Believe me I know medicine is an art, not a science. Just trying to help

reply to post by Iamschist


Lol okay I apologize I was probably somewhat on the defensive due to a couple of other posts above!

I don't think people should do things out of fear, they shouldn't just conform because it will keep the cops off their back. The point is no law was broken! They should never have been there in the first place. If the midwife left because I "removed consent" that indicates to me that they NEED consent, right? So why bring the police FORCE when dealing with matters of consent?

Why have the right to not consent, when if you use it, you are threatened?

Oh I can't believe I left a part out, my other kids were there when the police forced their way into my home, can you imagine what that did to them? The police have apologized to me. The social in the previous town told the police about a month later that they had no concerns. Yet a couple months later they refer it to the next town?

It seems no matter what I did I would have problems, unless of course I conform. But why should I conform?

Any way thanks for your comments. And sorry again.

My great-grandmother was a midwife in the Appalachian mountains.

Whenever a woman was near her due-date, they would move in with Granny. It was very common to go visit and see a hugely pregnant woman washing dishes or sweeping the floor.

Never will forget the time I spent the night and woke up to someone yelling. It wasn't the mother, but the father. After listening to him (I was about ten at the time) I decided I would adopt.

The mothers would typically stay a day or so, then go home. All natural birth, no pain killers, and no doctors visited. Granny did have a newborn incubator in the house but rarely needed to use it.

In her lifetime, she delivered close to 3,000 babies. This included several sets of twins. Not one baby lost. Not one!

People someitmes forget that pregnancy and birth is not a disease or illness. Its a natural process and has been ongoing since the beginning of time. Its perfectly fine to choose to have your baby at home, as long as you are aware of the potential complications that might arise and have contingency plans in place. It sounds to me like you were very well informed, knew your options, and made the best decision for you.

Good luck with your latest addition....and if you continue to be harrased, hire a lawyer!

I think the issue here lies within the involvement of hospitals AND midwives.

If you solely use the midwife and home birth, the Hospital will usually treat you like an idiot if something happens and you need to come in. If you use solely the midwife and don't follow through with them, they have reason to be concerned.

I'd get the child on a regular check up schedule with one or the other and make SS aware of it, they CAN and WILL take your child from you. Get a LAWYER.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Thank you for sharing that story about your nan, she sounds like a fantastic lady. You are also dead right with everything else you said! Exactly how me and my partner feels about it.

One funny thing, when I first suggested unassisted home birth my partner was dead against it! She nearly spat out her drink! Then she said, "so how would you get the placenta out? In hospital they give you an injection"... I think this is a problem with dependency! I feel that we are losing knowledge that would normally just pass down to our children.

Just like how kids don't know where food comes from etc.. What would they do if the SHTF for real?

Any way thank you again.