Wyoming cloud seeding project gets $2.4M more

Wyoming cloud seeding project gets $2.4M more

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) - The Wyoming Legislature has provided an additional $2.4 million to complete a cloud seeding research project and ensure that it will have scientifically sound results.

The state has invested about $11 million since 2005 in the project, which seeks to determine whether cloud seeding increases the amount of snowpack in several of the state's mountain ranges.

Most of Wyoming's water supply comes from winter snowfall. Supporters of the project say increasing the state's winter snowpack would provide more water for communities and irrigation and would be cheaper than building new dams and reservoirs.

Barry Lawrence, of the Wyoming Water Development Office, says the project will go on for two more winters and a report is planned in late 2014.

www.kgwn.tv...

My mom said my grandpa came out to Laramie in the 60's to work on their cloud seeding project. I've known about this since I was a little kid, early 80's. I understand the argument over whether it happens on large scale, but I remember a time on ATS when it seemed there were a large number of deniers (a couple years ago, during the height of the "contrail" interest). Honestly all I could do is sit back and watch in amusement.

So, here ya go... another cloud seeding project, i.e. environmental manipulation.

On an amusing note... with the winds in Wyoming, you can stand at Utah and spray chemicals and they will cover the entire state, we even got Nebraska covered! www.bowkera.com...

(large portions of Wyo water are property of Nebraska).

You're right, cloud seeding has been occurring for a long time. I don't know of anyone who denies it.

The trouble is, people seem to think it has something to do with "chemtrails" which are left by high altitude aircraft (contrails).

As you know, cloud seeding is done by injecting various things into existing cumulus clouds by flying under (sometimes in) them. It bears no resemblance to "chemtrails".

Cloud seeding is a form of weather modification. It is not considered geoengineering because it does not affect climate.

Since permits are required to perform cloud seeding, there is plenty of information available about it.
wtwma.com...

reply to post by Phage

Cloud seeding is a form of weather modification. It is not considered geoengineering because it does not affect climate

Yes, but if cloud seeding is done over long periods of time, could it not effect climate? We really don't know the long term effects of weather modification.

reply to post by isyeye

It has been done over long periods of time.

The purpose of cloud seeding is to encourage a cloud to produce precipitation. Those who are out to get contracts will tell you it works great. Others will tell you that it's pretty hard to tell whether that cloud would have rained or not if left to its own devices. In any case, cloud seeding can't turn a desert into a garden.

reply to post by Phage


I really don't see it as been done long term. Cloud seeding didn't begin until the late 1940's, and wasn't really used much until the late 60's and early 70's. Fourty or fifty years isn't very much when it comes to climate.

Who knows how much stuff has been sprayed, and what they may have tested cloud seeding with. There's no way that they can know 100% the result of what they are doing over longer periods of time to the earth....sort of a butterfly effect.

Originally posted by Phage
The trouble is, people seem to think it has something to do with "chemtrails" which are left by high altitude aircraft (contrails).

Agreed. The cloud seeding my grandpa did, I believe, was out of either a single or twin engine plane, or shot out of the avalanche cannons from the mountain ridges, as well as other experimental methods. Those are the 2 that I immediately remember.

I'm still on the fence about "contrails", honestly. I'm from Cheyenne, home of F.E. Warren AFB. The airport and Air Guard share the same land right in the middle of town, and we have the Army Guard there as well, to the north of the base. My dad was in the Air Guard, as well as a couple other family members, and my uncle worked with the flying nuke sticks out at the base. I've seen some strange equipment that gets flown around, but being a kid wasn't interested, or in one ear out the other. Some of the pics posted around here look similar to stuff I remember, mainly a picture of large tanks on planes. I've seen similar (not typical fire chemical tanks and bars) in planes at the Guard, but no idea if they were installed, just being moved, or what. Those are C-130's, though, not the allegedly disguised 747's or whatever were in the pics.

I figure I'll just play "devil's advocate" about the subject. To me, contrails (chemtrails) are feasible, but so is their non-existence.

reply to post by isyeye


I can say that if it affects stuff longterm, and we are seeing the effects now, then we're screwed. I watched a (small) glacier disappear in front of my eyes over my lifetime in the same mountains they seed over.

The idea is to get the clouds to drop precipitation on the mountains early instead of getting lifted high in the atmosphere and dumping in the valley where it warms up faster. If they could get accumulation along the tops of the mountains where the clouds drag, that accumulation will give a longer runoff season. It's an attempt to basically move massive amounts of snow into a cold storage before it even hits the ground.

The project in Cheyenne is amusing... Nebraska owns water flowing from the North Platte River. During droughts, the power plant north of Cheyenne (in Wheatland) has to buy water from Nebraska to keep things cool, or they end up running only one of the generators and the power company has to source additional power from somewhere else. When California was experiencing their brownouts a couple years back, the Powder River Basin Power Plant had to shut down a couple times completely... they thought they were gonna be permanently out, but we all squeezed through the summer. Water got scarce, to the point that we couldn't even buy from Nebraska because they had none to spare.

Originally posted by Earthscum
My mom said my grandpa came out to Laramie in the 60's to work on their cloud seeding project. I've known about this since I was a little kid, early 80's. I understand the argument over whether it happens on large scale, but I remember a time on ATS when it seemed there were a large number of deniers (a couple years ago, during the height of the "contrail" interest). Honestly all I could do is sit back and watch in amusement....

I'm not sure if I've ever recalled anyone here on ATS denying cloud seeding. It's hard to deny, considering it's been going on for 60 years, plus it is often reported in the newspaper beforehand as a public announcement, often because much cloud seeding work is solicited by groups of local municipalities and/or counties by using taxpayer money -- therefore it becomes a matter of public record when a cloud-seeding company is hired.

From what I gather, the reason cloud seeding is usually solicited by groups of municipalities or entire counties is because of the inexact nature of the results (it's arguable whether there are results at all, but that's another story). Cloud seeders can't predict exactly where the rain might fall, so it probably would not be prudent for one farmer or one rancher to hire cloud seeders. It makes more sense for entire counties to do so for the general benefit of farmers throughout the county.

...but like I said, the track record of successful results from cloud seeding is questionable -- but that's not relevant.

reply to post by isyeye

Cloud seeding didn't begin until the late 1940's....

Actually, the concept pre-dates the 1940s.....:

Weather Modification
(Rain enhancement, and hail
and lightning suppression)

There are many, many more online resources available for research.

THAT (^ ^ ^) is only one of them....

Have fun doing further research.....

reply to post by Phage

 

Cloud seeding is a form of weather modification. It is not considered geoengineering because it does not affect climate.

You are incorrect. Cloud seeding is being scrutinized by climate scientists and may be added to the list of Geoengineering activities in the near future. The only reason it hasn't been added yet is because of it's wide spread use and political lobbying to prevent it from being added to the list of Geoengineering.


Geoengineering by cloud seeding: influence on sea ice and climate system

The chosen seeding strategy (one of many possible scenarios) can restore global averages of temperature, precipitation and sea ice to present day values, but not simultaneously. The response varies nonlinearly with the extent of seeding, and geoengineering generates local changes to important climatic features. The global tradeoffs of restoring ice cover, and cooling the planet, must be assessed alongside the local changes to climate features.

List of proposed Geoengineering Projects

Cloud seeding

Burning sulfur[31]
Liquid nitrogen[32]
Silver iodide[citation needed]
Cirrus cloud seeding using airliners[33] to reduce reflectivity.[33]

reply to post by SteelToe

The proposals for cloud seeding as a means of albedo enhancement (geoengineering) are a separate issue from cloud seeding as precipitation enhancement.
From your source:

Latham [3, 4] suggested that the planetary albedo might be increased by changing the albedo of maritime boundary layer clouds by seeding them with aerosol produced from seawater.

iopscience.iop.org...

Cloud seeding as a means of inducing precipitation of in low level clouds (which is what is being discussed here) has nothing to do with geoengineering. It has nothing to do with climate. It is a matter of small scale, localized operations. Inducing precipitation in selected cumulus clouds (which is what is being discussed) does not enhance albedo.