To All Seekers of Understanding: The War on Human Entropy

I know I am about to be shouted down and ridiculed for this thread, but I think everyone should see this.

Over the past year, I have spent long months locked in contemplation of the world and the universe, trying to discern the exact flaws and mistakes of human nature, and how in the # it's supposed to fit into the grand scheme of things. Nearly all of my previous threads have been devoted to the various conclusions that comprise the monumental puzzle of our reality.

In my searches, I have discovered that the human genome actually defies entropy. I don't know the full science behind it, but Dr. Sanford of Cornell University can tell you more.



Considering our nature, which is to fulfill our basic needs (regardless of method) it seems to me that the Bible is written specifically to curb every possible negative outlet a man can find. We are like children, given very specific instructions on how not to get hurt. Why? Because we are intelligent, and we are curious. We will think of loopholes and small cracks to fall through, just to satisfy our instincts.

Therefore, Christianity's guidebook, the Holy Bible, is written. Then the Church uses it in an attempt to train us to be "perfect", even though we are an imperfect race. In this, it appears that the Church is fighting the logical outcome: extinction.

Our instincts and behaviors clearly show that we are a volatile and violent race, intent on seizing everything for ourselves and beating down anyone who opposes us. Others are driven to take power, believing they alone can fix the world, never realizing they don't have the first clue on how to do that. Thus, they mess up the world even more.

So, the Church is battling fate. It is resisting entropy, trying to keep us walking in a very straight line, so we don't fall in the fire as we would without guidelines. Without the Church, we would all die out, because we would be war-mongering barbarians.

Religion is fighting the entropy of the human race. It is using the controlling mechanism of "salvation" in order to trick us into behaving, for our own good. Unfortunately, religion doesn't value the exact truth as much as it does our survival.

So we have a choice here: the survival of the human race, or the truth of the universe.

My point here is that the Church is misunderstood. I don't entirely support its methods or the aims of some of its branches and leaders, but I recognize the efforts made toward securing our future as a living species. I still argue many points in their faith, but now I understand some of the fallacies in their views. Even if priests don't realize it, they are waging war on the fate of our world as we know it. So even if you don't believe in a god, believe in the Church's secret purpose.

The war on human entropy...the greatest war in the history of the world.



Namaste

I don't think we're given enough credit.. morality doesn't come from religion, though religion CAN reinforce it .. however a lot of immoral acts... death, destruction, war.. have happened in the very name of religion..

We're a social animal and empathy is built in .. that empathy drives morality, and morality drives our behavior in social groups.. it's when things get rough, resources scarce .. when survival is in question.. that those things begin to break down.. I don't think even religion can prevent that.

reply to post by miniatus


But you do agree that the Church is fighting the extinction of mankind?

I admit, I have up to this day thoroughly underestimated the Church. I hadn't realized what it was doing...even inadvertently.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by miniatus

 

But you do agree that the Church is fighting the extinction of mankind?

I admit, I have up to this day thoroughly underestimated the Church. I hadn't realized what it was doing...even inadvertently.

I think the church is fighting against human nature.. I'm just not convinced that our human nature would spell extinction though.. I think we have to learn to be what we are because if we deny it or hide it then we're bound to make grave mistakes.

A lot of religious people, not all .. but a lot.. seem to have the mentality that you do what you're told and don't dare question it .. I think that is a dangerous way to be...

Absolute logical fallacy; one only has to look at the history of mans churches and see what works it has wrought on man. It has so poisoned the minds and hearts of man that they seek annihilation and domination at every turn and in our modern world our leaders are willing to gamble the whole of the species believing that a man made Armageddon will summon forth their respective deity from the abyss.

The church is corruption, decadence, perversion, ignorance, servitude. Mans salvation lies in finding his true spirituality outside of this cancerous entity. True spirituality is possible without any negative influence from the church and it's when you know the power of your own spirit without the confines of these shackles brought about by wicked men that you finally know just how equal we all are.

All they've done was push their "entropy" onto others, then demand others obey. Moving it around doesn't fix the problem. There will always be people that resist, and rightly so. The law of the universe is balance. When we cease to be of the universe by transcending it, we become one with each other and the divinity of the cosmos, and there entropy is gone.

They've been doing a piss-poor job to promote unity and togetherness by stories of damnation and heinous cruelty to others. Fear just breeds more fear in others, and gives them a reason to hate.

When you look at strange symbolism surrounding places like the Vatican, as well as the butchering of the Bible, you can't seriously believe they only mean well? Their agenda stems far deeper than goodwill, into dark places. Into the realms of deception and control.

Step away from the herd, then you can begin to see the light. Atheism/agnosticism is human nature of the realization that "something doesn't seem right with all this religious stuff". If everything was right and just, there would be no reason to question, but because there is, people leave in search of other things.

The church tells us to turn away from creation and any cares for this life and to care only for our salvation in the afterlife. It encourages division and hate and is looking forward to the big war, Armegeddon, YEAH!

Yeah, the church is at war with entropy, HA!

"The hatred of the Church is strong within you, ATS."

Pop cult references aside, I will answer the thread as well as I can.

reply to post by miniatus

A lot of religious people, not all .. but a lot.. seem to have the mentality that you do what you're told and don't dare question it .. I think that is a dangerous way to be...

That is because we love doing what we're not supposed to. Left to our own devices, half of America would be dead inside a month. The same with other countries. Without regulations concerning morals, no one would care about anyone else. It would be every man for himself.

reply to post by LaughingatHumanity

The church is corruption, decadence, perversion, ignorance, servitude. Mans salvation lies in finding his true spirituality outside of this cancerous entity. True spirituality is possible without any negative influence from the church and it's when you know the power of your own spirit without the confines of these shackles brought about by wicked men that you finally know just how equal we all are.

I see the same behavior in parents. They never hold deep conversations with their children, never discuss the finances nor the harder side of life...why? Because children don't listen. They are creatures of impulse and inexperience, absorbed in the spice of life and their energy.

Parents have been known to be corrupt, they have been known to be ignorant, and they have been known to benefit from their childrens' servitude. But in the end, children grow up to be supportive, responsible members of society. Not every child will grow up right, but we have plenty that do.

This is what the church does. As a young species, we must be taught what is right and wrong, and we must learn what will hurt us and what will heal us.

The problem most people have is the fact that they no longer get their guilty pleasures of the flesh, they feel they are required to change their lifestyle. They also don't like having to answer to anyone about their life. It makes them feel like a slave, or a prisoner. What many don't consider is that with independence comes responsibility...something many are reluctant to pick up on.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur

All they've done was push their "entropy" onto others, then demand others obey.

Your parents did this, did they not? Ordered you to obey. For what reason? Because they are training you to survive.

And what entropy? The Church has survived for hundreds of years. Mankind without god has killed itself for many times that long. I will admit, religion has also caused death...because no one understands the true purpose of religion.

They've been doing a piss-poor job to promote unity and togetherness by stories of damnation and heinous cruelty to others. Fear just breeds more fear in others, and gives them a reason to hate.

This is because people like you have a hard time listening. I can't even tell if you bothered reading the original post. Also, fear has been shown to be highly effective in keeping animals in line. The only better method is hope...I wonder where that part comes in?

When you look at strange symbolism surrounding places like the Vatican, as well as the butchering of the Bible, you can't seriously believe they only mean well? Their agenda stems far deeper than goodwill, into dark places. Into the realms of deception and control.

*sigh* more Illuminati propaganda. Those symbols actually originate in wiccan and pagan religions, which also battle the entropy of the human race. Learn your history.

Step away from the herd, then you can begin to see the light. Atheism/agnosticism is human nature of the realization that "something doesn't seem right with all this religious stuff". If everything was right and just, there would be no reason to question, but because there is, people leave in search of other things.

Hardly. Atheism is the refusal to accept that everything isn't random. Atheism is the reaction to our hell on earth...an abhorrence to the violence we see every day. Agnostic is closer to the truth...that believing in a god does not mean you shouldn't be kind just for the sake of it.

The only reason right and wrong exist is because we, the human race, have mandated their existence. Right and wrong tells us what we can and cannot do, because we tend to get out of control very fast and very hard. For all of our intelligence, we are very stupid when it comes to interacting with the world and each other. We ignore common sense and decency in favor of fulfilling our desires, because we have been fooled into thinking they MUST be fulfilled.

Our gluttony and self-serving tendencies would destroy us if someone didn't bring the other end of the spectrum into play. What you call a prison of society, I call a sanctuary of the human race.

Originally posted by windword
The church tells us to turn away from creation and any cares for this life and to care only for our salvation in the afterlife. It encourages division and hate and is looking forward to the big war, Armegeddon, YEAH!

Yeah, the church is at war with entropy, HA!

If we only care about the pleasures of this life, that just laves us with a crap ton of people dying happy. And a handful of people living unhappily.

But if everyone works for a good afterlife, they'll find (quite coincidentally, ahem) that they actually live LONGER. Their doctrines, under the guise of helping them live a moral life, actually balance them on a knife edge that their human nature, left to its own whims, would quickly tip them off of, leaving them to fry in the fires of extinction and death.

Why is this necessary? Because for all of our intelligence, we are actually quite stupid as a species. Even animals get along better than us.

Any more questions?

reply to post by Starchild23


First of all, we've made to here, from how many of 100,000's of 1,000 of years without the Christian church! Second, the Christian church has done more to hurt humanity by killing or otherwise banishing it's intellectual teachers and healers, not to mention our spiritual advisers.

DNA and it's intricate secrets have nothing to do with some guy in a dress and a "holy" book of fairy tales, telling us what to think. If we survive past our own entropy, and outsmart nature, it will be in spite of the church.

Ahh, nice thread and comments you guys.. I always wonder how "atheists" can simply believe that they are simply random sentient beings that simply evolved through evolution without any intelligent design behind it all. Sometimes I think it is harder to believe that religion (that being atheism).. As far as the church, however depraved some of the people at the top (past,present,future) or texts that have been pervaded, I think it has helped more than harm it has done whether it be diluted spirituality or whatever the case. Some atheists believe religion is detrimental to their evolution, well I think that couldn't be farther from the truth when in fact if anything, it was/is a very important part of it..

reply to post by Starchild23


I myself am a Christian and think this nonsense. The Church is made up of individuals, like we all are, and it is not the business of the Church to govern our future, it is ours because each individual has a different future and role to play. I believe this role is discovered through reason, which is the basis for organization, unless the organization becomes an organism, then human reason is no longer its basis.

We are not violent, we were violent. Some may be more violent then others, but the degree to which individuals are treated as equals today has never happened in the history of human evolution, and I might even say that it's our defining trait.

I'm also of the opinion that morality isn't necessarily a religious concept, rather it's an intellectual concept to retain benefits of the division of labor. So, my opinion here is that the key of human survival is the development of the rational individual being.

Originally posted by Starchild23

That is because we love doing what we're not supposed to. Left to our own devices, half of America would be dead inside a month. The same with other countries. Without regulations concerning morals, no one would care about anyone else. It would be every man for himself.

I could not disagree with you more.. Civilization existed before religion .. communities of people looking out for one another.. We're a social animal, and empathy is something that we have with or without religion.. sure there's always some bad apples in the bunch.. But I'm an atheist for example who's not compelled even slightly to go harm or treat another person badly or unfairly .. It's insulting to suggest that we are incapable of civility without the heavy hand of religion to keep us in line.. it's just not true.

Religion is the driving force behind much of the conflict in our world today.. Religion forces division that might not otherwise even exist.. without religion, do you think we'd be having this conflict in the middle east? .. would Israel and Palestine have any reason to fight? just examples.. but I seriously do not even remotely buy into the silly belief that without religion the united states would crumble and men would become animals.. that's nonsense at best.. morality is not born from religion.. it just isn't

reply to post by Starchild23


Honestly the fact you have such little faith in your fellow man speaks volumes more about you I think than it does about religion, or lack thereof .. Human kind is an amazing animal that has made it this far, much of our history has nothing to do with religion.. religion, especially Christianity .. has been a small speck in the time line of our race.

First off - - - any poster making a thread about Atheists - - should provide accurate facts.

Atheism - - lack of belief in a deity (that is all it means - nothing else)

Atheist - - person who falls under definition of Atheism

All legitimate Atheists (not those who claim Atheist because they are pissed off at a church or god) - - will also claim Agnostic.

No legitimate Atheist will claim there is no god - - - because god can not be proven or dis-proven. A legitimate Atheist will claim "lack of belief in a god".

Atheist philosophy is individual belief - - beyond lack of belief in a deity.

Disclaimer: In some arguments/debates an Atheist will state "god doesn't exist" - - - as an effective point related to the discussion. As all debaters make emotional or "colorful" claims to sway a point.

But factually an Atheist knows it can not be proven - - - thus: Agnostic Atheist is correct.

reply to post by miniatus

I see where you are coming from. And it is a very nice to hear a well put perspective from a "atheist" (hate to label) without just bashing. I just wanted to ask what are your thoughts on before religion came on the scene. I mean its a fact we don't know exactly what was going on when the first "people" were here or what they were doing millions of years ago ..I mean its' speculation just as much as religion right? Do you believe it all started as some form of paganism of something along the lines? Was there always something that was thought of as a higher power? If so or even if not, when did it come on the scene? I guess we can speculate.. Do you believe there to be a higher power? It is interesting to think about . I know where things are now, but where did it all start? Some believe we developed the belief in god ,while some say we developed it falsely,some believe we learned it to be true... I am not trying to argue either side just like to see different perspectives.It sure would be nice to have access to some of those hidden libraries right about now , if that would even help.. How can we build off a possible false premise? It's pretty messed up to think we really don't know our story..

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Starchild23

 

First of all, we've made to here, from how many of 100,000's of 1,000 of years without the Christian church! Second, the Christian church has done more to hurt humanity by killing or otherwise banishing it's intellectual teachers and healers, not to mention our spiritual advisers.

DNA and it's intricate secrets have nothing to do with some guy in a dress and a "holy" book of fairy tales, telling us what to think. If we survive past our own entropy, and outsmart nature, it will be in spite of the church.

I think you may have forgotten all of the empires that fell and the people who died because everyone was killing each other in order to conquer kingdoms and claim lands. Honor was the game in that day, and killing was how you earned it.

That's the kind of "surviving" and "getting along" you mean, right?

reply to post by Starchild23

Your parents did this, did they not? Ordered you to obey. For what reason? Because they are training you to survive. And what entropy? The Church has survived for hundreds of years. Mankind without god has killed itself for many times that long. I will admit, religion has also caused death...because no one understands the true purpose of religion.

No they haven't, not really. I was always distant and on my own. I learned to find my own way, mostly through knowing and observation.

The church has survived because it was part of the Roman Empire, and as you see the areas they conquered (most of Europe) are still largely Christian. If the Romans continued to kill the Christians instead of adopting it, there would be a lot less of it in the world. In fact it would have to be made esoteric for it to survive. But why is it not so prevalent in Far Eastern nations? Because those areas weren't conquered by the "Holy Roman Empire", but also because missionaries would go to OTHER people's lands, call them to repent or be swallowed into eternal hellfire, the locals would kick their asses out or behead them. Fear. Leads. To. Nothing. Good.

And it caused death because they were hypocrites. It's not simply because others didn't understand. They didn't understand their own teachings.

This is because people like you have a hard time listening. I can't even tell if you bothered reading the original post. Also, fear has been shown to be highly effective in keeping animals in line. The only better method is hope...I wonder where that part comes in?

I have no trouble hearing the plight of others, because they may offer something new to the table. I can't miss out on a chance for knowledge, because it's something I've learned to seek.

First of all, you supported fear. I'm sorry but, fear cannot contend with love. Period. Second of all, you called us animals, and also referred to the human spirit as imperfect in your OP. See my sig? "The superiority of man is not obvious", we're infused with the breath of divinity, we have a soul, a spirit, indeed all things do, but ours is capable of truly understanding compassion, will, wisdom, and transcendence. We are very conscious, or at least we're supposed to be. Please don't belittle God's work. We may have come from animals, but we are human now.

*sigh* more Illuminati propaganda. Those symbols actually originate in wiccan and pagan religions, which also battle the entropy of the human race. Learn your history.

I did not say anything was wrong with those symbols, they are symbols. My point is why are they there if the people of the church are "Christian"? They went around purging Europe of "paganism" and then have that symbolism on hundreds of churches all around the world. Hypocrisy much? And also, why do they not come out and explain all of it to the people? They hide things in plain sight and leave others to ignore it or question it. How does it battle anything? They are just mocking people because they know something most don't. Those who are able to recognize the symbolism know that there is something behind the curtains - that's all.

Hardly. Atheism is the refusal to accept that everything isn't random. Atheism is the reaction to our hell on earth...an abhorrence to the violence we see every day. Agnostic is closer to the truth...that believing in a god does not mean you shouldn't be kind just for the sake of it. The only reason right and wrong exist is because we, the human race, have mandated its existence. Right and wrong tells us what we can and cannot do, because we tend to get out of control very fast, and very hard.

Most Atheism in the west is a reaction to the hell the church put humanity through for hundreds of years. Trust me, if the church practised what it preached, "LOVE", things would be a lot different. Instead they chose to preach fear - well done, you alienated people. Atheism does not mean "WE ARE BAD MEN!" Let them be and let them find their own way. There are other ways to understand love, just look at Carl Sagan: "For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." He gets it. I love you too, Carl.

As for "right and wrong", well, that can be interpreted as this: is your action compassionate, tolerant, respectful? Then it is right. Is your action devoid of compassion (malicious), intolerant, and disrespectful? Then it is wrong.

You see, we are able to discern these things. We have love in our hearts, and we have light (wisdom) within us. We are able to tell light from darkness (ignorance), we are able to tell compassion from malice. At the core, the human being does not wish to cause harm to another. It's only when the ego is inflated that all the negativity starts to expand, the psychopathy begins to swell, and harming others becomes a plausible choice.

Originally posted by jdftp
reply to post by miniatus

 

I see where you are coming from. And it is a very nice to hear a well put perspective from a "atheist" (hate to label) without just bashing. I just wanted to ask what are your thoughts on before religion came on the scene. I mean its a fact we don't know exactly what was going on when the first "people" were here or what they were doing millions of years ago ..I mean its' speculation just as much as religion right? Do you believe it all started as some form of paganism of something along the lines? Was there always something that was thought of as a higher power? Do you believe there to be a higher power? It is interesting to think about . I know where things are now, but where did it all start? It's interesting how a lot of tales and religious stories seem to have the same themes not just morals.. I am not trying to argue either side just like to see different perspectives.

edit on 18-3-2012 by jdftp because: (no reason given)

Personally I think religion came about primarily as a method to explain what we couldn't explain.. Early deities seemed to revolve around trying to understand the cycles of nature... Day and Night, Winter and Summer .. the desire to have a good harvest.. protection from natural disasters.. It just evolved from there..

Christianity in fact adopted many of the earlier pagan rituals as they "absorbed" lands during the crusades.. The winter solstice is known now as Christmas and this was originally a pagan idea.

So yes - I think originally it was man's attempt to explain the world around them, and it evolved to include rules/laws to not anger the God(s) .. an angry God would bring drought, an angry God would bring death.. the enemies of your God, are enemies of you.. this sparked wars..

Sorry - a bit of a tangent .. those people before religion? well they obviously didn't kill each other off, now did they? we're still here.. and we have plenty of evidence in the archeological record that societies existed that did not slaughter each other for selfish gain..

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Starchild23

 

First of all, we've made to here, from how many of 100,000's of 1,000 of years without the Christian church! Second, the Christian church has done more to hurt humanity by killing or otherwise banishing it's intellectual teachers and healers, not to mention our spiritual advisers.

DNA and it's intricate secrets have nothing to do with some guy in a dress and a "holy" book of fairy tales, telling us what to think. If we survive past our own entropy, and outsmart nature, it will be in spite of the church.

I think you may have forgotten all of the empires that fell and the people who died because everyone was killing each other in order to conquer kingdoms and claim lands. Honor was the game in that day, and killing was how you earned it.

That's the kind of "surviving" and "getting along" you mean, right?

Many of those empires were also based around religion ... the roman empire was a multi deistic society at first but at the fall of their empire they were primarily Christian .. the egyptians were also a religious empire.. multi deistic just like the Romans were at first.. can you name any non-religious empires?

Religion is guilty of doing the very thing you just pushed on the non-religious .. you're aware of that right? ..