HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Look hard enough for something and you'll find it.

I don't think anyone who takes ETs serious even bothers watching that show anymore. Ancient aliens is fantasy for lil'kids and those uninitiated in the subject.

Really grow up and stop believing fairy tales.

In places like Puma Punku, there were no ancient tools found, its a barren land and no records of how these blocks were made. similar structures all over the world has been found and its really amazing as to how not even a needle can get in between these blocks of stone or how holes were burrowed through with perfection.

Now religions have been passed down for thousands of years, cultures have been passed down thousands of years(only can remember the mayans), why would the art of masonary at such an advance level not be passed down from the various groups of people then? Why were these methods never indicated on the vast cave drawing or wall paintings that they did? also, why were no ancient tools ever found at these sites?

reply to post by dna221277


Puma Punku has always reigned as one of the worlds greatest mysteries. As a metal fabricator, I can tell you with certainty that we do not have technology that even comes close to the precision that was undertaken in the structures there.

Originally posted by dna221277
In places like Puma Punku, there were no ancient tools found, its a barren land and no records of how these blocks were made. similar structures all over the world has been found and its really amazing as to how not even a needle can get in between these blocks of stone or how holes were burrowed through with perfection.

Now religions have been passed down for thousands of years, cultures have been passed down thousands of years(only can remember the mayans), why would the art of masonary at such an advance level not be passed down from the various groups of people then? Why were these methods never indicated on the vast cave drawing or wall paintings that they did? also, why were no ancient tools ever found at these sites?

Tools used were made of stone or copper.

Copper is valuable and can be re-used (remelted and recast.)

Pounding stones and shaping stones can be reused as well, and some likely were found at other sites.

The quarries the stones came from still bear the marks of pounding stones used to get the stones out of the beds. Some stones found at Puma Punku also still show evidence of pounders being used on them.

Additionally, the inside corners of the "lego"-type stones at Puma Punku show evidence they were shaped with chisels.

Flat surfaces were likely sawn then smoothed in the same manner used by Egyptians on limestone and granite.

The majority of stone at Puma Punku is red sandstone, a relatively soft material to work with.

The andesite there is harder to work, but, again, earlier cultures (like Sumer and Egypt) worked with diorite (andesite is much like diorite but softer,) making even more complicated cuts than we see at Puma Punku.

While it might take some time, drilling "perfect holes" in stone is an art that even Neanderthal perfected so not a big surprise there either.

Harte

That leaves the question, what happened to these tools used? To my knowledge at least, none have ever been found. Or am I wrong?

reply to post by Harte

Tools used were made of stone or copper.

Got it.

Thanks. rofl

Originally posted by Rubicant13
That leaves the question, what happened to these tools used? To my knowledge at least, none have ever been found. Or am I wrong?

Copper toolds were too valuable to leave when they were done.

Stone ones were likely used in other projects and were found there.

So, I've answered for the second time. Are you going to ask again?

Harte

Originally posted by Rubicant13
That leaves the question, what happened to these tools used? To my knowledge at least, none have ever been found. Or am I wrong?

No offense intended. My answer to this questions has always been...

"I never leave my tools at a work/job site, why would they?"

We shouldn't expect to find the tools on site is what I am getting at.

reply to post by Harte


You say "likely" found there. "Likely" isn't certain, so excuse me. A theory is that the stones were prefabricated and the moved to their location.

uvian.org...

reply to post by exdog5


Then we have to find their tool shed.

reply to post by exdog5

"I never leave my tools at a work/job site, why would they?" We shouldn't expect to find the tools on site is what I am getting at.

Good point. Stone is hard to find.

Originally posted by Rubicant13
reply to post by Harte

 

Pounding stones and shaping stones can be reused as well, and some likely were found at other sites.


You say "likely" found there. "Likely" isn't certain, so excuse me. A theory is that the stones were prefabricated and the moved to their location.

uvian.org...

edit on 13-8-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)

Copper on the Mohs Scale has a hardness of between 2-3 varying. Steel has a hardness of 7. Iron has a hardness of 5.5, and the granite and diorite stones at Puma Punku have a hardness of 6 to 7. Copper would have worn down easily and repeatedly. It doesn't seem to be a good choice of metal to use on these stones. My point is that anything that may have been found has been considered not likely to shape them.

The ability to do all these things by hand is still there. The drive is gone. The work ethic sucks. Centuries of labor saving devices have spoiled us to the point of not even being able to comprehend spending the effort, time, and skill requred to accomplish the task.

As an aside, I always see the "expert" stone workers trotted out to say "we couldn't do it today". Well, they're right. They couldn't. I work construction, and every trade out there just plain sucks, my own included. The concrete, the framing, plumbing, electric, paint, everything is just crap. There's too much emphasis on "get 'r done and get the check" to bother with anything resembling plumb, level. straight, accurate angles, or anything like that. We used to complain about how bad the concrete work was. The builders said "yeah, but they're fast".

No wonder they "can't do it today".

I know this will probably piss off every tradesman who reads it, but before taking offense, think about all the trades that butt up against yours, and the slop they leave that you have to deal with, and I think you will see my point.

Originally posted by Rubicant13
reply to post by exdog5

 

Then we have to find their tool shed.

Exactly

Even if there were no tools found at the site that might be able to shape the stones, at what point does the logic turn from "the builders took their tools away with them," to "the aliens took their tools away with them?"

I'm just not seeing exactly why aliens have to be brought into the equation.

reply to post by subject x


I think that's part of the problem, as today's mentality is different.

I know they used steel tools on limestone, but do you think that someone would try to do something like this today?

(big image alert, 6.5MB)
Window of the Chapterhouse in Tomar's Convent of Christ

That window was made from 1510 to 1513.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
I don't know about cavemen or native aboriginal people living in 13,000 ft mountains, using tools with diamond drills, 6,000 years ago, do you?

No, but my ignorance doesn't mean that they didn't have them.

It is possible.

Especially if the aliens gave them their "old hand me down, low tech diamond drills" just to see what they could do with them.

all you ever hear on those shows are weasel words

I was taught in my first sales job not to use them, so I am aware of them

what is a weasel word ?

probably
supposedly
might be
could be


on and on and on

lol

Originally posted by subject x
The ability to do all these things by hand is still there. The drive is gone. The work ethic sucks. Centuries of labor saving devices have spoiled us to the point of not even being able to comprehend spending the effort, time, and skill requred to accomplish the task.

As an aside, I always see the "expert" stone workers trotted out to say "we couldn't do it today". Well, they're right. They couldn't. I work construction, and every trade out there just plain sucks, my own included. The concrete, the framing, plumbing, electric, paint, everything is just crap. There's too much emphasis on "get 'r done and get the check" to bother with anything resembling plumb, level. straight, accurate angles, or anything like that. We used to complain about how bad the concrete work was. The builders said "yeah, but they're fast".

No wonder they "can't do it today".

I know this will probably piss off every tradesman who reads it, but before taking offense, think about all the trades that butt up against yours, and the slop they leave that you have to deal with, and I think you will see my point.

edit on 13-8-2012 by subject x because:

It's a shame, but yeah, I see it on the engineering side too. Cut corners, let marketing do the "engineering", and the engineers just pass it along as a design. I'm ashamed of my profession some days as technology more and more is just used to push some more junk at us. The ancients build massive pyramids, beautiful huge statues, temples, and a host of other wonders. I have rarely seen a project funded to what it actually takes to do a job right, just what it takes to get it done.

Seriously, for all our advancement, the pinnacle of our generation is... the iPad? Nah, we have been to the Moon and Mars, but most people you ask today would say they'd rather have an iPhone than try to understand the science behind our Mars missions... unless they could watch it on their Iphone that is.

Back on OP, some very good points raised about tools, but I don't think I'm convinced that it explains Puma Punku. That really is a pretty amazing place. There is something to say about the desire to do things, but beating your head and hands against granite is not really that desirable. Using copper just doesn't seem reasonable. As for diamond to be useful as a tool, they would have needed to be able to work with it, and that would require fairly advanced knowledge. I don't think there is any evidence that the race that build Puma Punku had that capability. There aren't any diamond shaped tools anywhere in the region that I've heard of. Of course, there aren't any laser cutters laying around either. So to be desirable, it had to be achievable and not take a number of years to carve one stone. There may be human achievable answers to this somewhere, but I'm not sure crude tools and a go get'em attitude covers it.

But Ancient Aliens is crap. Sorry, but my Christian perspective sees it only as religion bashing. Doesn't seem to matter how stupid their interpretations are, as long as it gives another interpretation and they can throw the word "science" in, put it on the air. Even ignoring the religious aspect, their technological grasp is weak to say the least. If I hear "What else could it be..." one more time with absolutely no rebuttal, I think I'll break my tv.