Are Wolves Smarter Than Humans?

We usually look at any animal as inferior to humans...we have guns and helicopters, and they have paws.

But there's a difference between creative intelligence, and social intelligence. Wolves are arguably more intelligent than humans when it comes to societal behavior. For instance, humans will fight for themselves. They will do and use all things toward making sure they have food, shelter, and safety.

Wolves will make sure everyone is fed. Any wolf found to be serving only itself, will be excluded from the pack. Wolves understand how a wolf serving only itself is detrimental to the overall health of the pack, and is a negative influence on the rest of the pack, teaching them to hunt and fend only for themselves. A pack survives more easily when they survive together...and the wolves know this.

Man will only serve himself...making money for himself, buying food for himself, ignoring the wounds and injuries and hardships of others, believing the only life that matters is his own. Other people have no problem reciprocating the sentiment, serving only themselves, because they decide that if everyone is out for themselves, they are gong to make sure to get one over on the other people before they fall themselves. We are a greedy society, and a greedy society eventually fails.

Wolves are a sharing society, a caring community, and they fend for and help one another. This, to me, is more intelligent than what we do.

So...are wolves, in a sense, more intelligent than humans? We're talking about societal behavior, nothing else.

can wolves build space shuttles?
or dial my phone number on a touch screen phone?

No, they're not, however, its kind of different realms/channels, that overlap with ours, but we're the ones in the tests.
I think animals, such as wolves, are both progressing themselves, intelligence as well, that brain cells and neocortex isn't the rule of consciousness, for they've had people do well, with their brain liquidified by various illnesses. So, something else is going on.

However one thing that is very real with all of nature, and the earth, its cycles and seasons, and even the cosmos above, its a Living Library, and within its pages, there is a wealth of information to ponder and meditate upon, that should lead to spiritual progression, and away from dog eat dog social darwinism, advancements, even to those who don't set up controlling religions. Nature is a library. Wolves can teach us alot.

Originally posted by Gwampo
can wolves build space shuttles?
or dial my phone number on a touch screen phone?

edit on 8-3-2012 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)

Do wolves need space shuttles?

Do they need electronic devices to communicate?

We have developed these skills as a result of mistaking "desire" for "need".

All the wolves need is territory and food. They easily obtain both of these without technology. Why, then, would they need technology, or need to know how to use it?

You have deliberately avoided the point here. I specifically stated "smarter" as applies to societal behavior. Technology enables societal behavior, but is not societal behavior in and of itself. You are trolling the thread.

Under this logic, ants are smarter than humans haha. No, I do not believe wolfs are smarter on the social side, just different. Self-organising social human structures allowed us to build the space-shuttle , to evolve from tribes (similar to wolf-packs) to countries , and to work together to achieve common goals. Evil does not always mean stupid, and altruistic does not always mean intelligent .

I think you'd find that primitive man behaved the same way, when we lived in clans, hunted meat for the tribe, etc. Some cultures still do this in very remote areas.

To compare the two societies (wolf and modern man) is like comparing apples and oranges.

While we used to live in a society that espoused a small group pulling together for mutual benefit, the new society of man is now a complex arrangement of high specialization and self-interest but dependence upon the specializations and self-serving interests of others.

It's much easier for a small group to provide for the needs of the group. When that group swells to millions (such as in a city), that model is no longer a workable solution to the problem, and you get the haves and the have nots.

In our current social structure - I could see how it would be easy to mistake a wolf for being more intelligent than a human being, socially speaking.

However, if you look at the social structure of human beings you will find a great similatiry to that of a wolf pack.

In a wolf pack there are three main social characters: Alpha, Omega, and Beta.

The alpha wolf is the leader, the Beta is the peace keeper, and the Omega is the one that gets picked on.

If you look at any group of three or more in a human social structure, there you will find a leader, a person that is nutral (peace keeper), and one that gets picked on.

I beleive these are inherent social structures that have followed us since we dwelled in packs, much like wolves.

Watch the tv show survivor and you will see that we operate just like wolves.

Everyone works as a team, and the ones that work solo get voted off the island....

WE are not as different as you think.

reply to post by Starchild23


Imho the short answer is, in the jungle yea they are. In the concrete jungle, no.

P.S. Wolves have been know to work with crows when it comes to food security.

Originally posted by Starchild23
We usually look at any animal as inferior to humans...we have guns and helicopters, and they have paws.

But there's a difference between creative intelligence, and social intelligence. Wolves are arguably more intelligent than humans when it comes to societal behavior. For instance, humans will fight for themselves. They will do and use all things toward making sure they have food, shelter, and safety.

Wolves will make sure everyone is fed. Any wolf found to be serving only itself, will be excluded from the pack. Wolves understand how a wolf serving only itself is detrimental to the overall health of the pack, and is a negative influence on the rest of the pack, teaching them to hunt and fend only for themselves. A pack survives more easily when they survive together...and the wolves know this.

Man will only serve himself...making money for himself, buying food for himself, ignoring the wounds and injuries and hardships of others, believing the only life that matters is his own. Other people have no problem reciprocating the sentiment, serving only themselves, because they decide that if everyone is out for themselves, they are gong to make sure to get one over on the other people before they fall themselves. We are a greedy society, and a greedy society eventually fails.

Wolves are a sharing society, a caring community, and they fend for and help one another. This, to me, is more intelligent than what we do.

So...are wolves, in a sense, more intelligent than humans? We're talking about societal behavior, nothing else.

Wolves might be more spiritually evolved and more one with each other than humans. Humans think they are the most enlightened being on this planet but I sometimes think we are totaly deluting ourselves. Cats are also an animal that is just wierd in my way of thinking and their purring alway makes me think of a being in harmony using its throat chakra. Like humans singing hymns with specific frequencies. The cat scaring of the aligator make me think they know exactly what they are even if their minds are small. Most people never figure out what they are. A pity. Namaste

Wolves have pack intelligence. Thats good
Smarter than humans? no.
We have the ability to take a baby that would not survive and fix it. We will also care for a severly retarded or otherwise crippled person verses just kill it due to it being a drain on resources.

I say its two completely different species, and trying to figure out which one is smarter is not really applicable considering its different biology, different aims in survival, etc.

reply to post by Romanian


Ants have been around for 100 million years, building cities that would rival anything we build. They make up more biomass of the Earth than humans do and they managed to do this all without destroying their balance with nature. Ants are the dominant species on this planet and long after we have destroyed ourselves they will still be here.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle


In a wolf pack there are three main social characters: Alpha, Omega, and Beta.

The alpha wolf is the leader, the Beta is the peace keeper, and the Omega is the one that gets picked on.

If you look at any group of three or more in a human social structure, there you will find a leader, a person that is nutral (peace keeper), and one that gets picked on.

I think these patterns of characteristics might show themselves in other places,, or at least be relatable.....like what if these same traits are what cause the actions of particles,,, to spin, move and interact in certain ways,,,, stronger and weaker forces,,,, i may be way off and wrong,,,,,, but could there be any similarity that runs "deep"..... the idea of larger mass overtaking smaller,,,, perhaps even good and evil can be looked at as a positive or negative "charge"

reply to post by Starchild23


Ive dont think there is such a thing as objective intelligence, only subjective intelligence, in which only members of the same species can be compared to each other somewhat effectively. Even then, making a comparison on who is "smarter" is very difficult unless you limit the things that go towards determining intelligence (everything, pretty much), down an arbitrary set of things, that, coincidentally ( ), the set makers themselves score big on.

Humans believing they are the best, most intelligent, most advanced, most supreme thing in the multiverse ultimately just comes down to simple hubris. There will always be *something* that makes humans "special" and, less euphemistically, superior, in their own eyes, to the rest of existence.

I mean seriously, billions of people believe that "god" cast out of heaven 1/3 of a group of by any reasonable standard, was a vastly superior race of beings, because they would not bow down and worship/serve man. If humans think the ANGELS should be worshiping them on knee with bowed head, the other animals of Earth stand little chance of anything else but to be seen as disposable resources.

Putting that aside for the moment, perhaps we can compare differing species via how successful they are at attaining a common goal. One thing all creatures want, is to be content; happy, and avoid unneeded suffering. All animals strive for these things, and humans, being animals as well, strive equally for it.

Who do you think is more successful at being content? The common, modern Western human, who is born, indoctrinated into a false reality, sent to slave away for 50 years, and if they dont die of stress or cancer, retire, then find out they need to work until they die or theyll be destitute when they die? Or perhaps the wolf, who lives maybe 8 years, and while struggling to survive, perhaps after a good meal, contentedness comes to them for a meager few hours every day, until they need to get some more food.

Maybe they are content 20% of their lives. Id just be guessing, but I would have to say that that far outshines the average time a modern human is content in theirs, by a long shot. Same could be said of "primitive" man compared to modern man. For the space shuttles, iPhones, hydrogen bombs, HAARPs, electronic currency and store bought GMO foods and factory farmed meat, modern man sure aint very happy.

In that respect, modern man is an abject failure, and for all his superior "intelligence", his life is filled with even more dread, fear, anxiety, and discontent than ever before.

Indeed... who really is smarter? The wolf, or the human? The savage in the jungle, or the modern Western man?

Yes, it is widely know, wolves are at the minimum socialist and at the worst communist.
but they can't even tie their own shoes.

Besides, working for the herd is not always productive to the individual and if you have a thinking mind...
...shoud you mind?

Originally posted by Aliensun
Yes, it is widely know, wolves are at the minimum socialist and at the worst communist.
but they can't even tie their own shoes.

Besides, working for the herd is not always productive to the individual and if you have a thinking mind...
...shoud you mind?

Working for the herd is in fact the best means of survival. If you are working for the herd as a rule, then by default, the herd is working for you too.

We as humans invariably work for ourselves. Some of us have bypassed that instinct, but for the most part, we are taught to serve ourselves. Wolves who serve themselves get kicked out of the pack. Packs hunt together, and when one member is self-serving, that interferes with the efforts of the group. The most healthy solution is expulsion of the greedy member.

As I said...societal behavior. Nothing else is relevant here, and I have said so repeatedly. Wolves seem to be very much more socially intelligent than humans, and it struck me as odd and important, so I thought I would mention the matter.

Originally posted by Gwampo
can wolves build space shuttles?
or dial my phone number on a touch screen phone?

edit on 8-3-2012 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)

Nope. But they can build a culture which survives longer than a few thousand years without consuming everything that is keeping them alive.

reply to post by Starchild23


I see that you greatly underestimate the living proof that humans DO work together despite their differences. If they did not, we would all be "mountain men." Across civilizations, co-opeation seems to be the rule be decree, discussion and independent consideration.

..And humans tend to take care of their own and not leave it to nature to thin out the pack by taking the weaker.

Plus, in this discussion, you can't seperate the wolves from their natural instincts. So there is no way you can introduce altruistic motive onto their existence in social structures unless you attribute some non-instinctual agreement that they have reached among themselves. And that seems unlikely.

No, they just make far better use of their intelligence and innate ability than humans do. They might not be as smart as us, but they're not as stupid as us either

Yes, I would say so. I have to husky wolf mix dogs, and they seem to think so. Best pets I have ever had. They're much more intelligent than a regular dog, very loyal and loving creatures.

reply to post by Aliensun

I see that you greatly underestimate the living proof that humans DO work together despite their differences.

We are at war right now because of our differences. Everywhere in the cities you see people fighting over differences. We see lawyers making millions in courts every day because of differences, so much so that they have made movies over the fact. People love differences, because it gives them something to blame hardships on.

We work together? No, we leech from each other while trying to further our own agendas. Everything peaceful is manipulation in disguise, and every truly peaceful effort is merely background noise. As as we try to serve ourselves, wolves would have thrown us from the pack. But we've instead grown accustomed to it and continue serving only ourselves. We have taught ourselves to be that way.

I've recently come to say that we civilized humans are actually rather barbaric in nature. We dress in nice clothing, we say nice words, we eat properly and express manners...but in truth, we are all barbaric.

Don't speak to me of "working together despite differences".

And humans tend to take care of their own and not leave it to nature to thin out the pack by taking the weaker

it's cute, how you so resolutely adhere to the "standard" of our system.

There are those who truly need healthcare that are consistently held back due to red tape. There are those who desperately need assistance and their benefits are cut because of some extra finances. There are those suffering from the side effects of the legal system (divorce, death, domestic violence) and becoming homeless. It can't be too obvious, or it wouldn't work...but our medical and social services systems are using loopholes and severe cutbacks in order to slowly wean them off of the financial system, and then uses the legal system to shut them down when they try to fight it.

They are using the financial strings to wean our nation. In addition, this greatly reduces the voices of the people.

So there is no way you can introduce altruistic motive onto their existence in social structures unless you attribute some non-instinctual agreement that they have reached among themselves.

That is how they learned to do it. They actually LEARN to behave and share and fight and eat together. They are pack animals...they operate most efficiently in numbers, and they have learned to coexist without tension. A fighting machine comprising of multiple parts must be able to move seamlessly together. Any distraction or enmity between the parts will slow it down, and lose the prey.

And this is the reason for my thread. If wolves can do it, but we can't (and no, we haven't) does that make them smarter than us?

If our leaders don't take care of us as well as the wolves do their own, what does that tell us?