Liberal Democrat Watch

LIB DEM TAX STING

yes i know it's a link to the Conservative Party, don't rant just prove me wrong

Looks like the Liberal Democrats are the tax assassin in the dark, while hiding behind an image of 'down to earth' they are really planning a disasterous overhaul of the British tax system. I thought Labour was the party of 'tax' but looks like the Lib Dems want a slice of the cake

More tax is nearly always bad tax

Discuss

(I've yet to read it all, because there is so much to read)

[edit on 25-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

[edit on 25-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

LIB DEM YELLOW TAPE

- New production quotas on broadcasters, forcing popular American television shows off the airwaves.
- Hammering companies with a �100 million compliance burden to administer local income tax.
- Introducing �reserve deposits� on mortgage lenders, making it more difficult to get on the housing ladder.

I've renamed this thread LIB DEM Watch because it looks like i'll need to update this thread more and more regulary as the general election approachs

On your thread here.

I'm an American, and am interested, if still uninformed, about British politics. I can tell that the same labels don't really apply to each other's situations.

Still, I'd like some feedback if you care to respond. I have noticed in America, on this website and others, a new level of anger and hatred directed at conservatives/republicans/non-socialists/'my-country-right-or-wrong.

Looking in the political mudpit forum here on ATS, it seems like most of the threads, and certainly most of the posts, are from an American left outlook.

Do you feel castigated for the things you post? (i.e. "how dare you . . .")

Do you get harsh remarks in real life, too? (i.e. racist, fascist, etc?)

I'm a Texan, and so I get an added layer of abuse for not being "geographically correct," as well as my outlook and leanings.

Just wondering.

I have always thought the EU looked like a real beaurocrat's dream, and a taxpayer's nightmare. Reading your posts makes me think of the American experience of the UN.

And just now on the news they're saying that UN directly got 3% of all the financial kickbacks in the "oil for food" scam.

More tax isnt neccesarily a bad thing if the tax money actually goes to something worthwhile (like schools, hospital, public transport, infastructure etc etc)... but if the money is wasted on crap like invading other countries for no reason, then i resent paying more because it costs alot of money to kick someones ass... regardless if its justified or not.

Do you feel castigated for the things you post? (i.e. "how dare you . . .")

I'm not sure what you really mean by this, but i'll try and answer: I'm proud of my political and social beliefs, there are those who critise what I say, but thankfully here on ATS people understand and listen to what people have to say even if they don't agree.

Do you get harsh remarks in real life, too? (i.e. racist, fascist, etc?)
In 'real'

I tend not to get accused of being racist or facist, although i have seen and read of people who get falsely branded with these names. Those who do the insulting tend to not understand the idealogy of those they are insulting or fear that they could make a difference for the better.

I have always thought the EU looked like a real beaurocrat's dream, and a taxpayer's nightmare. Reading your posts makes me think of the American experience of the UN.

The EU is doomed to fail, it serves no purpose, its only purpose is to waste money and create a aura of political correctness. The EU is opposed by the majority of the population yet the politicians don't listen to common sense and withdraw from the EU.
America is being picked on in the UN because other nations (mainly France)believe it's leaders are the same as it people (which is incorrect). With the fall of the EU, the UN will gain more interest from the member countries and the costs and responsibilies will be hopefully spread out more evenly.

hope i answered your questions


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More tax isnt neccesarily a bad thing if the tax money actually goes to something worthwhile (like schools, hospital, public transport, infastructure etc etc)... but if the money is wasted on crap like invading other countries for no reason, then i resent paying more because it costs alot of money to kick someones ... regardless if its justified or not.

The problem with tax in the UK is that it goes up, but the public isn't getting any improvements to services.


[edit on 5-10-2004 by UK Wizard]

Do UKIP even have a policy on Tax or anything else for that matter other than Europe ? Seems a bit ripe to me for a supporter of a single policy party to mock others.

Anyway,this like most of the things that are said about the Lib Dems is based mostly on ignorance.

There are basicly three different forms of tax we are dealing with here.

1/Income tax.To my knowledge Lib Dems are advocating a raise in Income tax on incomes once they get over � 100,000 (almost $ 180,000 ) and only on the money over that amount.

2/ Council tax.Lib Dems are advocating abolishing this unpopular and unfair tax and bring in a form of local income tax.This means that the elderly don't have to pay the same tax a working man.

3/ Green taxes.The purpose of these is not to make money but to change the way we treat our enviromnent.These include a plastic bag tax ,see Ireland where a plastic bag at the supermarket costs a few pence and has been instrumental in encouraging consumers to recycle their plastic bags rather than getting new ones each time.Another example is VAT on fuel for aircraft.Why should I pay so much for my car fuel and Airlines pay nothing?

There you go three types of tax.1/ won't effect 98% of the population.2/Actually involve abolishing one tax and getting local funds a different way and 3/ Are designed to change our behaviour and not make money.

[edit on 5-10-2004 by John bull 1]

Is this just an extention of another thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't know how things work in the UK, but in my relatively short political career, and my equally short stint in secondary education, I'm finding that more and more, the trend becomes:

Republicans win the lower class by convincing them that trickle-down economics DO in fact work. This in turn wins the upper class, because, hey! Trickle down starts (and ends) with them.

Democrats always look the bad guy, because they're the guys that have to come in and clean up the mess from massive deficits, and impose tax hikes. So, lower class citizens, who in the end, aren't seeing much difference in their tax rate, get all inflammed, (See what public school does?) and are militantly in the camp of the Republican for the next election.

Then, you just get this sine wave thing going on...

PLEASE NOTE:

this is how I've noticed things work at a STATE level. as for the national level, it's almost, but not quite, the same.

Comments?

Originally posted by John bull 1
Do UKIP even have a policy on Tax or anything else for that matter other than Europe ? Seems a bit ripe to me for a supporter of a single policy party to mock others.

UKIP do have a policy on tax:

Taxation

Excessive taxation - of individuals and businesses - stifles initiative, reduces employment and encourages dishonesty. It also makes Britain less competitive in the global marketplace. Tax policy should be framed to encourage investment, to enhance our global competitiveness, and to create rather than remove incentives to work and save.

The UKIP believes that these criteria call for a wholesale reappraisal of British tax arrangements over the longer term. However, one area in which immediate relief can be granted is tax for the lower paid, making employment more attractive. The UKIP will raise the starting threshold for income tax with the object of removing a further 1 million lower paid individuals altogether from tax, with suitable adjustments so as to leave higher rate taxpayers unaffected. The UKIP will also immediately consider the reform of capital gains tax and inheritance tax, and will remove the main family residence from inheritance tax and introduce further IHT exemptions.

In addition to tax reduction, the UKIP believes there is much to be gained by simplification of our system of taxation, an issue that successive UK governments have only made worse, an example being the new system of tax credits. The complexity of our taxes is completely out of hand, and it causes assessment to be an excessive burden both to the revenue authorities and to taxpayers and their professional advisers, besides leading to errors. In consultation with business and with the Accountancy and Taxation Institutes, the UKIP would aim for a taxation system that is fair and reasonable with simple, concise and clear objectives. In particular we should aim for taxes that are easy to calculate and collect without resort to the courts. The Tax Faculty of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales describes the problem in frank terms � "Britain's tax system has spun out of democratic control and become detached from the principles of good revenue raising."

The UKIP would pay immediate attention to simplifying or scrapping the self-assessment system, and to the procedures involved in calculating value added tax (VAT). We also note that VAT is an EU tax - our membership of the EU obliges us to use the VAT system. Outside the EU, the UKIP would be in a position to consider the merits of replacing VAT by a tax applied to retail sales.

Above all, freedom from the EU would forever remove the threat of 'tax harmonisation'. The European Commission remains insistent on this measure as part of its obsession with promoting its own notion of 'competitiveness'. For the UK, tax harmonisation would imply that our tax rates rise to the generally higher levels prevailing in other EU countries. There has, for instance, been no relaxation in the EU's continued pressure for the UK to apply VAT to basic food, childrens' clothing, books, transport and other items that are currently 'zero-rated'.

Average unemployment in the rest of the EU remains around twice as high as in the UK, despite the recent economic growth in euro-zone countries. The UKIP associates this difference with the UK's lower taxes, lighter regulation and general approach to business, all of which are being eroded by our continuing participation in the European Union.

The setting of tax rates is one of the most fundamental duties of our elected government. The UKIP is the only party that can promise that this responsibility is not progressively handed to Brussels.

www.independenceuk.org.uk...

Lib Dems are a joke

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Is this just an extention of another thread?

The threads are similar, this one is meant to be on what is wrong with the Lib Dems, the other is meant to be about arguments associated with UKIP
sorry if they've blended together


[edit on 5-10-2004 by UK Wizard]