Does God lead into temptation ?

reply to post by ellieN


Just ask what's the Biblical support for that idea. I don't mind providing it for you at all.


Jesus saying that No man has ever seen the Father at any time:

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." ~ John 6:46


Jesus saying that the Father is a Spirit being.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth." ~ John 4:24

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The only thing I can say...is it is a Paradox. It is a part of the Bible that does seem to completely contradict itself and again have a very good explanation. What I posted to you was my only way of trying to explain it in human terms. The truth is ...I don't really know. The nature of God is so complex that we can only theorize at what is happening in the Bible. Much of it, I truly don't like and other parts I find dear to my heart....Now..don't flame me for saying that, I am just being truthful about the Bible.
I like it when people can discuss the Bible without letting their own( cherished opinions) get in the way...read my signature.
I think we can learn much from each other..and ..maybe..just maybe..each one of us has a piece of the puzzle and we can put it together.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I find John 6:46 a bit puzzling!!! It is calling Jesus, God and at the same time insinuating that the Father is individually different. He who is God has only seen the Father ....seems to indicate two individuals.

Let me get my (Puny) brain to work here. Ok...God/Jesus..is an extension of the Father,,,yet he was human in many ways...not like us though, for sure. I would love to walk on water.!! Yet...in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus/God was praying to the Father to take that burden from him. It pained Him so much he was sweating blood.. He was human enough to know the pain of what was to be. So explain to me, who Jesus was praying to?
Ok..to me each of us are extensions of our parents, but are totally individuals..some times not so good extensions!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I think you and NoTurTypical..maybe on the same train of thought. It does make more sense for God to sacrifice Himself than to send someone else in His place, which would make it a lot more personal. Still ...there are lots more questions.

reply to post by ellieN

The only thing I can say...is it is a Paradox. It is a part of the Bible that does seem to completely contradict itself and again have a very good explanation. What I posted to you was my only way of trying to explain it in human terms. The truth is ...I don't really know.

Because it was pre-incarnate appearances of God the Son, not God the Father these men saw and met with face to face.

"When addressing the subject of the Pre-existence and Eternality of Jesus Christ as proof of his deity, the area of Christophanies must be explored. Christophanies are the manifestations of God in visible and bodily form before the incarnation. These were once called Theophanies, but Christophany is a better term since it was an appearance of Christ. Because these appearances occur in the Old Testament that prove both the Pre-existence and Eternality of Christ."

Christophanies

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I find John 6:46 a bit puzzling!!! It is calling Jesus, God and at the same time insinuating that the Father is individually different. He who is God has only seen the Father ....seems to indicate two individuals.

At least two yes, there is the Holy Spirit as well. Christ's Spirit. God is a Triune God just as we are 3 part beings. (Body, Spirit, and Soul) We're made in His image.

Let me get my (Puny) brain to work here. Ok...God/Jesus..is an extension of the Father,,,yet he was human in many ways...not like us though, for sure.

Exactly like us, He emptied Himself of His divinity, whatever that entails, and took upon Himself flesh and blood. He was 100% man, and 100% physical, yet still begotten wholly of the Father, not created, Eternal God of Eternal God.

I would love to walk on water.!! Yet...in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus/God was praying to the Father to take that burden from him. It pained Him so much he was sweating blood.. He was human enough to know the pain of what was to be. So explain to me, who Jesus was praying to?

His Father, God the Father, Christ was still here on a rescue mission from His Father, yet He also says "It was for this hour that I came."

Ok..to me each of us are extensions of our parents, but are totally individuals..some times not so good extensions!

Yes, we are the same blood and essence of our parents. Yet God and His Son are perfect beings, therefore they share perfect love, perfect desire to always glorify each other and they share the same perfect will.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Very well said..and explained...Thank you.....Got company right now and have totally ignored them to get answers, I have been searching for.

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Very well said..and explained...Thank you.....Got company right now and have totally ignored them to get answers, I have been searching for.

Well, amen, go enjoy your family. Shoot me a u2u.

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I find John 6:46 a bit puzzling!!! It is calling Jesus, God and at the same time insinuating that the Father is individually different. He who is God has only seen the Father ....seems to indicate two individuals.

Let me get my (Puny) brain to work here. Ok...God/Jesus..is an extension of the Father,,,yet he was human in many ways...not like us though, for sure. I would love to walk on water.!! Yet...in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus/God was praying to the Father to take that burden from him. It pained Him so much he was sweating blood.. He was human enough to know the pain of what was to be. So explain to me, who Jesus was praying to?
Ok..to me each of us are extensions of our parents, but are totally individuals..some times not so good extensions!

Think of it like this. Before the Messiah came to earth, he was the right arm of God. He was the Glory of God revealed.

Isaiah 59: 16-19

16 He saw that there was no man,
And wondered that there was no intercessor;
Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him;
And His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly He will repay,
Fury to His adversaries,
Recompense to His enemies;
The coastlands He will fully repay.
19 So shall they fear
The name of the Lord from the west,
And His glory from the rising of the sun;
When the enemy comes in like a flood,
The Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him.

Isaiah 59 is where God is telling you he is coming to earth it is he who becomes Jesus. Jesus is the breastplate of righteouness and the helm of vengeance and cloak of zeal he wears. This is what the gnostics say, that the physical Jesus was just the second ark of the covenant, the second vessel bearing the Holy Spirit himself, that he created for himself a vessel to which he used to redeem mankind.

All throughout the Old Testament God is testifying as to who he is. The prophets are the mouthpiece of God, he spoke through them and you can get a sense for his mannerism. The books of the prophets were written by men but the amazing thing is that with each book God manages to sound the exact same with the same personality and same mannerism. If you read the New Testament you notice that Jesus talks exactly like God when he spoke through the old prophets, they have the same personality and manner and speech even though the books were wirtten by different men, God never changed. Take a look at Isaiah 63, this is a prophecy about a future event where God shows up at Busirah (Bozrah) and lays waste to his enemies and gets his clothes stained with their blood, now notice in Revelation 19 Jesus shows up at armageddon looking like he'd been in a fight and his garments are blood stained.

Isaiah asks this question from Isaiah 63:

Who is this who comes from Edom,
With dyed garments from Bozrah,
This One who is glorious in His apparel,
Traveling in the greatness of His strength?—

God replies:

I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.”

Isaiah asks:

2 Why is Your apparel red,
And Your garments like one who treads in the winepress?

God Replies:

3 “I have trodden the winepress alone,
And from the peoples no one was with Me.
For I have trodden them in My anger,
And trampled them in My fury;
Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments,
And I have stained all My robes.
4 For the day of vengeance is in My heart,
And the year of My redeemed has come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
And I wondered
That there was no one to uphold;
Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me;
And My own fury, it sustained Me.
6 I have trodden down the peoples in My anger,
Made them drunk in My fury,
And brought down their strength to the earth.”

Now look at Revelation 19 and see this is the same God but it's Jesus wearing the blood stained garments. Keep note that Jesus name is called "faithful and true" and think, that even into the tribulation He has always been faithful and true to Israel, even though she whored around on him he never forsook her and is Faithful and True to her to the very end.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Note in Isaiah 59 God says "the Day of Vengeance", that day of Vengeance is the second coming of Christ, which is the first Judgement Day. The Jews call it Yom Kippur which means "the Day of Atonement", to christians it is "the Day of Recompense" of "Day of Judgement". Isaiah 59 is speaking about the second coming of Jesus and his first stop is Busrirah where he destroys his enemies alone and unaided by anyone in the world because everyone has the mark of the Beast and his people have all been martyred or most, except those who managed to survive.

reply to post by ellieN


Also note, from my above post. Of Jesus being God.

The non Messianic jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah because they believe that God himself is their Messiah, their King and Savior. See the Irony? They missed their God coming in the flesh because of one tiny piece of a tradition of men. They believed he would come riding in on a white horse, when he came riding in on a donkey. They epxected King David 2.0 and they got a Rabbi riding on a donkey and in their foolishness and blindness they couldn't see him for who he was.

The jewish feastdays are dress rehearsals for the fulfillment of Prophecy. The prophecy the jews of Jesus' time failed to observe but that Jesus fulfilled was Rosh Hoshana "the Feast of Trumpets" in which the people would announce the arrival of the Messiah as he rode into Jerusalem.

Do you see the irony? It is also written that when they realize what they have done they will wail like a parent who lost a firstborn son.

I fully believe that the referrences from Ezekiel 25-28 chapters when God tells the "Son of Man" to prophecy against his enemies that this is a future prophecy of the end times concerning Islam as Islam inhabits every one of these areas in Ezekiel that he speaks off and that the "son of man prophecies against. There's only one Son of Man and thats Jesus so it must be a future battle, probably whats dealing with Gog and Magog war.

reply to post by reficul


My point of the prior post is religions of this day wouldn't be here without the previous incarnations before them.

Why must we make a choice of which to follow?

Isn't faith more important than belonging to a sect? No division or choice comes with faith, you have it or you don't.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Thank you..for explaining that beautifully...You and NoTurTypical have given me much to think about and absorb for this day. And..honestly...I love it so much more that God/Jesus is one and the same..and both of you have made points that I never considered.
To me... that now has a much more personal relationship with God. But..I am still me...I still don't like parts of the Bible and the terrible violence there.
But for this day..I can say it is one of the best days I have had on ATS.

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Thank you..for explaining that beautifully...You and NoTurTypical have given me much to think about and absorb for this day. And..honestly...I love it so much more that God/Jesus is one and the same..and both of you have made points that I never considered.
To me... that now has a much more personal relationship with God. But..I am still me...I still don't like parts of the Bible and the terrible violence there.
But for this day..I can say it is one of the best days I have had on ATS.

Think of it like this. The old testament is what came before. It was a foreshadowing of what is to come. In otherwords history is going to repeat itself and is repeating what happened before but on a level no man has ever seen before and at a frightening level. People who disregard the warnings we give are fools when they scoff and they will be the first to die because they will not be able to get out of the way of their own doom. The wise man is he who hears and believes. He will be able to step out of the path of the boulder that would otherwise crush him.

Jesus said do not fear, believe in him and do not fear, but instead prepare and be ready so that he does not come upon you like a thief in the night. The bible has always been about preparing us. This story we are living is not history it is His Story. This was never about us, it was always about him, even when he made Adam, he did it because he wanted a companion who would love him of his own volition for who he was and with unconditional love. Jesus wanted our love from the very beginning of the world and even after man fell from God's grace he kept inventing loopholes for us to get out of trouble and his final solution was coming to earth to die for us as one of us. He is Faithful and True in every regard because he never once gave up on us even though there were times when he wished he had.

What happened in the past, we may not like or agree with but we do not see this from every angle like he does, we can only catch glimpses of puzzle pieces when he sees the entire picture. We may not like what happens in the future but we can trust him that it will turn out for the best because at the end of the story, he wins the war and we go with him in victory.

Do you think Prayer really helps?

Originally posted by ellieN
Do you think Prayer really helps?

No offense, with that attitude or idea about prayer probably not. I really didn't mean that as an attack, but a highlight. It takes faith. Faith isn't making promised to God, it's believing the promises God's already made. Anything not of faith is sin, and it takes faith for God to answer our prayer. Prayer is our "heavy artillery", use it often. Pray for everyone, the world, anything you can think of. A prayerful person has a good relationship with God. Remember, you also have to be silent and give Him time to "talk" back. He'll deposit something significant in your spirit from His when you quiet and meditate on Him.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by ellieN
Do you think Prayer really helps?

No offense, with that attitude or idea about prayer probably not. I really didn't mean that as an attack, but a highlight. It takes faith. Faith isn't making promised to God, it's believing the promises God's already made. Anything not of faith is sin, and it takes faith for God to answer our prayer. Prayer is our "heavy artillery", use it often. Pray for everyone, the world, anything you can think of. A prayerful person has a good relationship with God. Remember, you also have to be silent and give Him time to "talk" back. He'll deposit something significant in your spirit from His when you quiet and meditate on Him.

Thank you....Been praying for everyone and the world and lighting candles too. Just so much awful stuff. And it just keeps going..... Maybe I will be silent awhile and not " badger " so much... Thanks again.....

edit on 4-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

reply to post by ellieN


Prayer greatly affects the tides in the spiritual war going on in the heavens. And we war not against flesh and blood but against spirit beings in the heavenlies.

reply to post by MentalDrip33


i don't have faith,i dont follow religion,i study it.
i believe in probable cause and affect.
faith is hoping god will save the hungry in africa , while your dinner plate is full.
cause and affect is not having such a full plate while teaching your children not to live beyond their needs, and to help others that are in need,cause god ain't gonna do a damn thing about it!
peace
love is my religion,its the only one i can proove!

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by MentalDrip33

 

i don't have faith,i dont follow religion,i study it.

Everyone has faith, just some of us have our dials of skepticism turned a whole lot further to the rigtht than other people do. I also study religion, but it's in my free time, try studying the benifits of building a personal relationship with Jesus and see how that goes for a while? It's be far more fruitful and compelling than any study of religion. That always gets really pedantic after too long.

I believe in probable cause and affect.

That's good. See we have lots of common ground we can meet on. Do you also believe in quantum physics, statistical probabilities, history, geology and archaeology? We'd really have lots to talk about.

faith is hoping god will save the hungry in africa , while your dinner plate is full.

That would be "faith" some god exists somewhere, you're not sure who or what he is and you think it can never be known. But that's not saving faith. What you've described is one of the biggest problems missionaries tackle when going to the far east. Especially true of people in other countries who really believe reincarnation and karma. They rarely help with anyone, they believe they will mess with their path to ultimate freedom. It's pretty sad missionaries who return from places like that have such amazing testimonies about seeing these people and how much love they felt when people helped them without asking for anything in return.

Remember what James said about that ^ kind of "faith"? He said, mockingly, "Oh, you believe in God huh? You do as well as the demons at least, they believe too, and tremble."

Saving "faith" is really TRUST. That you trust Christ, that He is who He said He was and He did what He said He was going to do for us, shed His blood for the remission of our sins. That person worships Jesus, not religion, and whatever you worship you will be like. If you worship the world which is cold, merciless, and materialistic, that's what you'll end up being. If you worship Jesus you'll treat other people the way Jesus would. You'll give them a blanket when they are cold. You'll give them food if they need some. You'll pay their rent if they are in a pickle. When you worship Christ, you are the hands and feet of Christ.

That's why Jesus said we'll do greater things than He did. He fed 5,000, millions of Christians can feed millions of people, and so forth.

cause and affect is not having such a full plate while teaching your children not to live beyond their needs, and to help others that are in need,cause god ain't gonna do a damn thing about it!

Right. Most likely that's a religious person's household you're describing. They don't worship Jesus, they worship their religion and their own intellect/themselves.

peace
love is my religion,its the only one i can proove!

Hey, you're pretty much a Christian already! Christ only gave two commandments for the New Covenant. Love God with all you've got, body mind and soul, and love all other people as yourself. Adopt the creed "I am third,.. God is first, everyone else, they're second, and me, ..I am third."

The Law of Love IS THE ONLY LAW!!!! Praise the Lord for His love!

reply to post by ellieN

Thank you....Been praying for everyone and the world and lighting candles too. Just so much awful stuff. And it just keeps going.....

It "keeps going" because there is a satan and his kingdom out here still rebelling and warring against God and His anointed Christ Jesus. That's why prayer is important always, it's a constant battle, the enemy never sleeps.