Do Animals Have Rights, Does It Matter How We Kill And Eat Them?

reply to post by Flavian


It personal choice I guess. But you have not presented any kind of argument apart from you like the taste and it has been bred for it. Well I guess if someone likes the taste of human flesh and they breed humans for food that would be ok then.

I see it as a form of bullying. We do it because we can. It does not make it right in my eyes..

reply to post by purplemer


Ok, i totally accept that i failed to bring any real points (other than certain animals only existing because we use them as food).

However, from the flip side, why not eat meat? There aren't really any arguments that set that out properly either apart from the "poor animals" take on it (or at least none that make sense to me).

If the cruelty could somehow be taken out of the process, i would honestly have absolutely no issue with eating meat, apart from has it been cooking long enough?

Then again, why should animals have dignity in death when we put old people in nursing homes and leave them to die with no dignity? Do animals expect and deserve better than humans?

We live, we work, we die. Anything extra that gives a bit of extra enjoyment to this sorry state of affairs should be welcomed, whether that is a hot pork injection or simply dancing in the rain.

How is killing animals any different from killing plants?
Is it alright to kill plants because they don't move?
Is it alright because they have no brains?

Why is it alright to farm plants but not animals?

Originally posted by OmegaOwl
How is killing animals any different from killing plants?
Is it alright to kill plants because they don't move?
Is it alright because they have no brains?

Why is it alright to farm plants but not animals?

As far as we know plants don't experience pain and fear, so certainly it's different. As I stated earlier I still eat meat, but how those animals are "farmed" is a moral concern for me.

I saw an interesting documentary awhile back, I think on Animal planet, I will try and find it and post.

It was about this autistic woman who had some kind of uncanny ability to percieve what caused terror and panic in livestock that were going to be slaughtered, and she invented some kind of tunnel system that seemed to greatly reduce the fear and stress of the animals walking down "death row"

Interestly her invention has since been widely adapted in many slaughter houses, probably not so much about humane treatment of the animals, as much as it was about terrified animals being harder to control. It's all so twisted not sure what to think about it exactly, I guess she invented a good thing?

ALOHA

Once we are conscious of life, we will not take it, we will care for it - of course, in such a time, such questions will be elementary!

the moral strength of a nation may be judged by the way it treats its animals - Gandhi

∞LOVE∞

Originally posted by awake1234
ALOHA

Once we are conscious of life, we will not take it, we will care for it - of course, in such a time, such questions will be elementary!

the moral strength of a nation may be judged by the way it treats its animals - Gandhi

∞LOVE∞

Love it, an inspirational quote from a man who firmly believed in the caste system! Talk about hypocracy........

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

It's a parents responsibility to tell them to sit down and shut up. In all love. If you can't, you aren't the parent.

True words of wisdom!



More people that have children need to heed this advice and become parents.

Originally posted by OmegaOwl
How is killing animals any different from killing plants?
Is it alright to kill plants because they don't move?
Is it alright because they have no brains?

Why is it alright to farm plants but not animals?

Indeed!
At least animals have a chance to escape!

Poor plants ain't gots no feets to runs away with!

Not all animals raised for food are treated inhumanely.

In my opinion everyone who can, should raise and harvest their own food locally. However, if one cannot then they should at least take the care to know where their food comes from. Not all producers raise animals in factory conditions.

If you want to make an impact to change the reliance on factory farming find a local producer and support his operation – it will cost you more but anything worth doing is worth doing right. Eating meat animals is not cruel; treating them with no respect and deplorable conditions that stress them out at the time of slaughter is…


For example - I raise all my own meat and run a dairy as well. I challenge you to find anything inhumane about my organic free range dairy operation. My ladies bovine and caprine alike are very well cared for.

No tail docking, all organic hay and fodder they roam 40 acres to their whims but return to the barn on their own for business twice a day. They have the best of everything from barn to stalls to pre-natal care. I give the girls all one year of every three off from pregnancy as well.

As for meat – I raise all kinds; chickens, ducks, geese and a couple of steer.

All my animals are hormone free and raised free range on grass, organic fodder. They tend to be smaller and it takes longer for them to make weight but lead more natural lives… the ducks and geese have a 2 acre pond and I keep no single animal of any species to make sure they have normal social lives.

They all come and go as they please until the one sad day I humanely kill and process them for food. I respect my animals and treat them with dignity even the ones I eat.

reply to post by OmegaOwl

How is killing animals any different from killing plants?
Is it alright because they have no brains?

Yes. If they had, then I guess we would talk about "plant rights" in addition to animal rights, too.

reply to post by dadank


Yeah but lions also kill hyena's for sport to intimidate. Only the male lion's will do it though.

reply to post by MountainLaurel

So long as men kill lower lifeforms without empathy we will continue to eat them.

Ever notice how a man is so quick to rationalize it? He'll say, "This is the way of things." Or, "Animals eat animals. We're animals. And it's good for you. So eat." Or, "Eating another animal is a spiritual experience. You connect to your ancestors. You absorb the soul of the creature into you and it makes you stronger. You become a deeper person with a soul connection to nature." Or, "I never eat an animal without saying a prayer. I will periodically enter into a ritual where I will thank the spirits of nature for gifting us with plenty and for sacrificing animal spirits for our consumption." Or, "The bible says to eat meat." Or, "You can't survive without eating meat." Or, "Just eat the darn thing! Do as you're told. When you get older and got your own money then you can do your own thing." Or, "Everything we eat was alive, like us."

I wonder why? Do you think it's maybe because they don't have any deep emotions for the animals they eat? They say they do. They say they have a deep spiritual connection to the animals they consume. But what if i argued that the connection they speak of is no different than the connection between a parasite and tis host? They're rationalizing their lack of empathy for other creatures as "spiritual" and "necessary".

We do need B12 and we do need certain fatty acids. However, we could eat LESS meat and still get everything we need. We over-consume. We forget that in the past people didn't eat this much meat because they couldn't afford to. It was more cost effective to use animals on the farm than to butcher them. The wealthy could afford it, of course, but most could not - in civilized societies. Furthermore, if we really wanted to, we could derive these things from other sources. It would be harder and we might live 10 years less than what we do now, but we could live our lives without having to eat live animals such as cows or pigs or chickens. It's no mistake that we have more in common with them than we do plants. They're, genetically, practically apart of our family. Plants are distant members. But they're easier to eat because there's less in common. One day we'll be eating bacteria so we don't have to eat more intelligent creatures. And then maybe further along in our evolution we might derive our energy purely from the sun or from some energy source that's non-intelligent. This might allow us to consume inorganics to survive.

And one other thing. When you're past the age of 50 you do not absorb enough B12 from meat to meet your needs. In fact, B12 deficiency is most common among old people. They need to take supplements.

I believe we're evolving away from and not towards eating other lifeforms.

yes they have rights

the right to taste delicious!

reply to post by Golf66


Yup - that was basically what I was used to growing up as well. Add to it some fish from the river or game from the woods.

I don't know any other way to say this - the animals were for food yes, but treating them badly, inhumanely or cruelly simply was not done nor tolerated. It was taught (to me at least) that it was a wrong thing to do.

Much of farming has gone far away from this - and it is not a good thing.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
I saw an interesting documentary awhile back, I think on Animal planet, I will try and find it and post.

It was about this autistic woman who had some kind of uncanny ability to percieve what caused terror and panic in livestock that were going to be slaughtered, and she invented some kind of tunnel system that seemed to greatly reduce the fear and stress of the animals walking down "death row"

The woman you are thinking of is Temple Grandin.

Her webpage has a ton of her work on Livestock Behaviour, Design of Facilities and Humane Slaughter. She is truly an amazing person.

We're all going to die. 10 years flashes by fast. 80 years is not a long time.

A human life is very short. And is quickly forgotten within a generation or two.

Everything gets redone. Everything is changed. Our memories get buried forever.

So don't lose yourself. Don't overdo it, either. Try not to.

Don't hurt anybody intentionally. Do what you feel is best. Live big, if you can. Dream. Love.

It just so happens that being happy means not just helping yourself, but helping other things too.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by DrMattMaddix

 

It's a parents responsibility to tell them to sit down and shut up. In all love. If you can't, you aren't the parent.

True words of wisdom!

More people that have children need to heed this advice and become parents.

As I stated earlier I defend my parenting discision to allow my daughter to be a vegetarian. It seems to me that setting boundries for a child is not compromised in this case as long as she was getting proper nutrition. I would also challenge that telling a child to sit down and "shut up" , no matter how much "love" it is done with is rather unesessary. IMHO if a child has an opinion, and they are not having a tantrum in the process of expressing it, it shoud be welcomed even if you reserve the right to override it as thier parent who ultimately has responsibility for thier safety and well-being.

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Life feeds on life. The morality/immorality of killing is a human invention. As far as Mother Nature is concerned, a dog is no better than a fern is no better than a cow is no better than a fungus is no better than a rock. It's just routine energy transfer.
1 thing I've never figured out is why vegetarians kill and mutilate those poor vegetables. Especially after all the evidence that plants feel pain. Murderous Heathens!

ETA: I support vegetarians because less demand for meat means better prices for me!

edit on 26-2-2012 by pierregustavetoutant because: see above

The difference between animals killing other animals for food and modern treatment of animals in slaughterhouses is what most vegetarians consider the breaking point. How cows and chickens are treated is absolutely disgusting; life can feed on life, but it does not have to completely disregard the life which it is feeding on.

So many reasons not to eat meat, chief amongst them is the energy resources used to grow and ship it.

Regardless of your thoughts on whether or not animals have rights, we are killing the planet with our (as a people) need for petrochemicals.

Luckily for us, they are a finite resource.