2012 = NOTHING

Here's the thing. Lets assume for one minute that the world is indeed going to end on 21st December 2012....Would there be any logical reason to be concerned?

No! Because, if humanity were to be wiped from existence, there would be no consequence. That is, there would be no observer left to observe the fact that humanity no longer existed. The precise moment after the end of the world would mean nothing.

If I die in 5 minutes from now, my death would mean absolutely nothing to me immediately after the point of death. My whole life, friends, family, experiences, emotions, memory are gone at that instant I die. They will mean, literally nothing for I will remember literally nothing at death.

The only affect my death would have had, would be on other people because they are around to experience the fact that I'd gone. It wouldn't affect me in the slightest and what happened within the world after I'd gone wouldn't affect me in the slightest either.

So, an end of the world scenario would mean ALL of humanity is wiped from existence with no effect, the event has aboslutely no implications whatsoever for anyone. In order for an event to have consequence, one needs to observe and experience the effect of that event.

Originally posted by swampcricket
Also cn some of you actually show me where we will be aligned to the galactic center?

As someone with a little knowledge in astronomy i can only laugh at such statements like "alignment with the galactic center", "planetary alignment" etc...just proof that the 2012 hype is made up by people with an IQ equal that of a potato.

This is just another instance of western greek idealogy interpreting things the wrong way. The mayans believed in time as CYCLICAL; The greeks LINEAR. The world is not going to end in 2012. The world is going to be drastically changed in 2012.

In regards to previous end of the world predictions, can we all agree that those didn't have as much momentum behind them.? I still don't even understand Y2K. But we have multiple prophecies from multiple cultures all pointing towards the same time frame. The most prominent theory points to another planet that will wreak havoc upon it's approach, planet X. Supposebly it orbits a binary star system, companion to our sun. With this star being undetectable because of much less mass in comparison to the aforementioned. Here are some facts:

-The March 16, 1999 announcement by NASA at the 30th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston of the theory of the origin of Earth's Moon as a catastrophic collision with a "Mars-size planet."

-Sumerian legend says there was a 10th planet called niburu that collided with the Earth.

-Hebrew texts also mentioned a planet called "the great destroyer" in the Kolbrin

-"A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite. 'All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is,' said Gerry Neugebauer, chief IRAS scientist." Washington post article 1983 (mysterious heavenly body discovered)

-June 17, 1982 a NASA press release from Ames Research Center officially recognized the possibility of “some kind of mystery object”

-Research has proved that such planets exist that follow elongated eliptical orbits but very little is known about them.

A pose a question. If NASA deliberately edits lunar/space anomolies with whatever presently unknown agenda they have, who is to say they are not being truthful about this anomoly.?

reply to post by Audiokat


There are ancient myths or storys passed through generations. Some amorph with others and some have embellishments put upon them regarding Global Catastrophes. Yet all speak of survivors - I guess it was they who wrote these storys down for future generations to discern.
I believe when you die it is more like waking and some Earthly matters are not important - such as fear.

You know, I understand every side of the argument, not that I agree with every side, necessarily.

But here is my question: those of you who believe in it, where's your proof it will happen?

Those of you who don't believe in it, where's your proof that everyone else is nuts?

Neither of you provides proof besides "Oh, well...I dunno lol" or maybe "Well, it just sounds ridiculous!" Look around you and think of how the Egyptians would have looked at you if you mentioned our televisions and computers and cars.

And those of you who believe...well, come up with something besides half-baked theories about aliens.

Sorry for going off, but I am sincerely in love with the fact that half of both sides pick at each other without constructively debunking anything or providing worthwhile information, and the other halves sit and smile like indulgent masterminds.

Bottom line: None of us know anything for a fact about 2012, except that it has an end somewhere. So stop ridiculing each other and pretending you do.

reply to post by CaptainNemo


Yes I heard on an Astronomy show that they have discoverd planets without any detectable companion stars.
Orion would be a likely candidate as a while ago I read that some planets were independently born in the stellar Nursery of Orion. And Orion is our cosmic backyard and it would be easier to detact something relatively close

reply to post by CaptainNemo


Yay another contestant for Xcalibur's 2012 Challenge. You have mentioned that a number of other cultures have prophecies that relate to this time period. Prove it. Provide me with said prophecies that refer specifically to the time we are currently living in. I don't want a list of the cultures that supposedly have these prophecies. I want the prophecies themselves.

Now on to the bulk of your post. The Sumerians never did not believe in a 10th planet. They didn't even know of any planets other than the ones that can be seen with the naked eye. The sole source for this claim of a 10th planet is Sitchin and his source is Cylinder Seal VA 243. The area that Sitchin refers to as a depiction of the solar system is merely an illustration of stars in the sky. We know what symbols the Sumerians used to depict the planets, None of these symbols appear on this seal. What does appear is the symbol used to depict stars. Furthermore, the Sumerians didn't even have the word nibiru. It didn't appear until the Akkadians, at which point it referred to a point of crossing such as at a river. It wasn't until the Babylonians that the word took on an astronomical meaning. To them it referred to the highest point of the ecliptic. Occasionally a planet would be in this position and at those times nibiru would also refer to the planet. The most common occurrences of this have nibiru referring to Jupiter or Mercury.

The Kolbrin is a hoax. There's nothing more to say about it. The only people who apparently have any knowledge in regards to is existence as an ancient text are those publishing it. In fact if you look into the story of the discovery of the Kolbrin many of the facts are verifiably wrong. It's also worth noting that the only "university" that supports the Kolbrin as a legitimate ancient document is owned by the same person that publishes the Kolbrin. There is absolutely no validity to any of its claims. It is merely another work of fiction that someone is trying to pass off as truth to the New Age crowd.

Your claims in regard to the 1983 article (the actual scientific paper was published in 1984) are also wrong. If you actually took the time to read the article you quote from you would realize that the object discovered could have been a number of things. While a planet was one of those possibilities another, among many, was a distant galaxy. It's also worth noting that in the newspaper article that you quoted from also says that the object is "not incoming mail," but the fearmongers always seem to miss this part. Now if we look at the actual 1984 paper we see that there would actually ten unidentified objects in the IRAS data. In 1985 a follow-up paper was published by the original team in which they identified nine of the objects as distant, young, ultra-luminous galaxies. In 1987 another follow-up paper was published by the original team. In this paper they identified the last object as an infrared cirrus. Of course the fearmongers don't bother to do any legitimate research. They would rather just skim an article from the Washington Post and then claim that no follow-up was done therefore the information is being suppressed.

As for your claims from 1982 you must remember one key fact, Voyager 2 had not done its flyby of Neptune at that point in time. When Voyager 2 passed the Neptunian system in 1989 any possibility of Planet X was thrown out the window. The reason why Planet X was hypothesized in the first place was due to perturbations in the orbits of the gas giants. With Voyager 2's flyby a number of new moons were discovered and as a result Neptune's mass had to be recalculated. With these new numbers the perturbations disappeared and 100+ year search for Planet X ended. Now the only ones claiming that Planet X is still out there waiting to kill us all are people like Nancy Lieder who cry wolf every time their bank account starts running low.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by BBalazs

 

I agree with you. People have been claiming dates for the end of the world for centuries. These dates come and go. The amount of money being made off of the 2012 doomsday must be great for Hollywood, survival equipment and canned food industries.

You can change destiny. We're just here for the ride. No sense in living in fear, what will be, will be. All I know, if something should happen, I would want to be one of the first to parish. Trying to survive hell on earth is not my idea of fun.

That is so true 2012 is nothing but a moneymaker for all of the people who play on the fears of the less informed or close minded people, it's sad actually. You are right wars/conflicts have happend since the dawn of man and creature it's nature.

Originally posted by Starchild23


Those of you who don't believe in it, where's your proof that everyone else is nuts?

Neither of you provides proof besides "Oh, well...I dunno lol" or maybe "Well, it just sounds ridiculous!" Look around you and think of how the Egyptians would have looked at you if you mentioned our televisions and computers and cars.

There is substantial scientific evidence to suggest that the theories of doomsday buffs are completely unfounded, where's the evidence to suggest they will happen? Do you have it?.

But it depends on what we are talking about here. So far, I think there's a huge solar flare, planet X/Nibiru, polar shift or world war 3. War is always a possibility, can't escape that one but there's plenty of researched articles on the other theories that reduce them to poppycock. In fact, I don't know of a single article by any credible author, which suggests 2012 is the end of the world. Not one. Most of the stuff is hyped up garbage thrown together as a money gaining venture to feed off the people who get suckered in for this kind of thing.

2012 as a 'marked year' has just stemmed from the end of the Mayan Calendar, it seems all other doomsday theories have latched onto this as a support of some kind to reinforce their nonsensical claims - and without due cause, because the the theories are based on misinterpretation. There is nothing to suggest the Mayans thought 2012 would give rise to doomsday, it's just the end of the long count and that's it. The eividence is out there, just go browse....all sicentifically researched. Not, I repeat, not theorized.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

Yay another contestant for Xcalibur's 2012 Challenge. You have mentioned that a number of other cultures have prophecies that relate to this time period. Prove it. Provide me with said prophecies that refer specifically to the time we are currently living in. I don't want a list of the cultures that supposedly have these prophecies. I want the prophecies themselves.

Now on to the bulk of your post. The Sumerians never did not believe in a 10th planet. They didn't even know of any planets other than the ones that can be seen with the naked eye. The sole source for this claim of a 10th planet is Sitchin and his source is Cylinder Seal VA 243. The area that Sitchin refers to as a depiction of the solar system is merely an illustration of stars in the sky. We know what symbols the Sumerians used to depict the planets, None of these symbols appear on this seal. What does appear is the symbol used to depict stars. Furthermore, the Sumerians didn't even have the word nibiru. It didn't appear until the Akkadians, at which point it referred to a point of crossing such as at a river. It wasn't until the Babylonians that the word took on an astronomical meaning. To them it referred to the highest point of the ecliptic. Occasionally a planet would be in this position and at those times nibiru would also refer to the planet. The most common occurrences of this have nibiru referring to Jupiter or Mercury.

The Kolbrin is a hoax. There's nothing more to say about it. The only people who apparently have any knowledge in regards to is existence as an ancient text are those publishing it. In fact if you look into the story of the discovery of the Kolbrin many of the facts are verifiably wrong. It's also worth noting that the only "university" that supports the Kolbrin as a legitimate ancient document is owned by the same person that publishes the Kolbrin. There is absolutely no validity to any of its claims. It is merely another work of fiction that someone is trying to pass off as truth to the New Age crowd.

Your claims in regard to the 1983 article (the actual scientific paper was published in 1984) are also wrong. If you actually took the time to read the article you quote from you would realize that the object discovered could have been a number of things. While a planet was one of those possibilities another, among many, was a distant galaxy. It's also worth noting that in the newspaper article that you quoted from also says that the object is "not incoming mail," but the fearmongers always seem to miss this part. Now if we look at the actual 1984 paper we see that there would actually ten unidentified objects in the IRAS data. In 1985 a follow-up paper was published by the original team in which they identified nine of the objects as distant, young, ultra-luminous galaxies. In 1987 another follow-up paper was published by the original team. In this paper they identified the last object as an infrared cirrus. Of course the fearmongers don't bother to do any legitimate research. They would rather just skim an article from the Washington Post and then claim that no follow-up was done therefore the information is being suppressed.

As for your claims from 1982 you must remember one key fact, Voyager 2 had not done its flyby of Neptune at that point in time. When Voyager 2 passed the Neptunian system in 1989 any possibility of Planet X was thrown out the window. The reason why Planet X was hypothesized in the first place was due to perturbations in the orbits of the gas giants. With Voyager 2's flyby a number of new moons were discovered and as a result Neptune's mass had to be recalculated. With these new numbers the perturbations disappeared and 100+ year search for Planet X ended. Now the only ones claiming that Planet X is still out there waiting to kill us all are people like Nancy Lieder who cry wolf every time their bank account starts running low.

Nah, I'm declining to participate.
You provided a very good rebuttal.
I rarely engage in 2012 talk.
I have my beliefs, we're all moving inexorably towards great change.
You provided a very good rebuttal.
Time will talk.

reply to post by swampcricket



The world doesn't necessarily have to end but much change could happen whether it be for the good or the worse.

Here ya go, read it very carefully. This is the best explanation I have found...
The How and Why of The Mayan 2012 Prophecy

It gives pretty good detail about our solar system coming into alignment with the galactic center....

reply to post by swampcricket


It's funny how there is always a hype to these sorts of events, we cannot predict events on a global scale of the future but we can decide what we want for our future and mold the future four our children our childrens children and for ourselves as well. Let's stop getting distracted by 2012 The Movie and what not and start seeing our future with our eyes mind and heart, and through a flatscreen TV.

With love, Peace

reply to post by swampcricket


Aligned with the galactic center as viewed from Earth.

Some theorize that the 21st marks the beginning of a new age. So while there may be nothing spectacular on that day, it could be remembered as the year everything first changed.

The calendar also predicted - to the day - when the Spanish would come heralding a new dawn. There was a new dawn that led to where we are now, but it was horrible for the Mayans.

Is there a point to this thread, other than to restate what's been said thousands of time, or to be a complete and utter ass?

reply to post by Cataka


The Long Count predicted no such thing. In fact the Long Count doesn't predict anything. The prediction you're referring to comes from the books of the Chilam Balam. These book weren't written until after the arrival of the Spanish and were found to have been influenced by the beliefs of the Spanish.

No one will know the day or hour. Unless your not a christian, then your more than free to be blown about by the wind.

Originally posted by atotheb
No one will know the day or hour. Unless your not a christian, then your more than free to be blown about by the wind.

so Christ only died for the Christians? Is that a new Bible you are writing there? There weren't any Christians when he died, remember that when you start passing out judgement

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
This is just another instance of western greek idealogy interpreting things the wrong way. The mayans believed in time as CYCLICAL; The greeks LINEAR. The world is not going to end in 2012. The world is going to be drastically changed in 2012.

In regards to previous end of the world predictions, can we all agree that those didn't have as much momentum behind them.? I still don't even understand Y2K. But we have multiple prophecies from multiple cultures all pointing towards the same time frame. The most prominent theory points to another planet that will wreak havoc upon it's approach, planet X. Supposebly it orbits a binary star system, companion to our sun. With this star being undetectable because of much less mass in comparison to the aforementioned. .?

edit on 29-1-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

It the same people who work are linear in a society keeping them thinking and focused on the pyramid the people are building based on how wealthier more invested in the society and it's prospareity they look at the cycles of the year month or day of trading looking at the quarterly reports and how it will effect there investment

The 2012 thing is similar since some see it linear whether they believe in it or don't the sucsess and/or failure of their belief will be proven on 12/21/2012 who cares
People who use the cycle of the world should know that something is going to happen but what why and how
But with when being the most wanted piece of information
when we will find the reason from what is understand to effect the current state and cause change to effect their world and the things and people in it
But anyone can see that something is going to happen one way or another
it will Happen what and why will be from the people that believe it to be or deny changes are happening
Belief is what empowers knowledge and the reality of good and evil

"Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal." Arthur Schopenhauer

reply to post by rebellender


Never said that. I'm saying this 2012 scare is being blown about.