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Pre-Resurrection Jesus Vs The Resurrected Christ.
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There seems to be two versions of Jesus in which we know of, the one before his death and the one that defeated it, because he became the sacrificial
lamb he fulfilled the laws.
Pre-Resurrection Jesus held onto the Jews of Laws of Moses he did this:
- Kept the 7th day Sabbath all his life on Earth (Saturday).
- Kept the annual Holy Days including Passover every year of his life.
- Never eat unclean foods (pig, shrimp, catfish etc.)
- Did not want any religious leader to be called "father" for there is but one Father in Heaven.
- Prayed to One God Almighty.
- Never had anything crafted in the image of something in Heaven (whether prayed to or not).
But the Resurrected Jesus did this:
-He defeated death through sin
-Made the faith a Gentile faith not just a Jewish one
-It became redemption through Faith not just the Law
-He became the Lamb of sacrifice
-We no longer need Circumcision
-We can eat unclean food, all food is made clean
-The Holy Spirit was left for us as Comforter
-Asended to a higher plane higher than the Heavens
-Is able to open the Seals
-Is now King of Kings higher than the non Christ on the Cross
If Jesus had stayed and refused the cross and people believed, maybe we do not know if he could have opened the Seals, that we do not know but it seems tha case so it means it had to happen. Would he be titled as King of Kings, would he be able to take Lucifers Morning Star Title from him had he not?
For the Islamic faith we know he just went to heaven and Judas went on the cross instead, even if that did happen in some off shoot universe the Christ the Christians know will always be the King of Kings, the Cross has always been Eternal as part of God's plan to redeem us, it is a universal make up of Christ who was outside our timeline of earth, it glues the universe together.
He can now open the Seals, why would there be Seals, are they other dimentions and timelines and death it self in which he can manipulate along with Hades which he has power over? Jesus can come down as judge aswell he has all the titles now, even though man was left alone because we became like god's, knowing good and evil he has the right to throw the devil to hell in which he roams the earth according to what the Bible says, but before hand God will agree to hand over the power to the Beast to settle the differences so that what is evil will always be know as evil in the face of innocence of being non the wiser.
Pre-Resurrection Jesus held onto the Jews of Laws of Moses he did this:
- Kept the 7th day Sabbath all his life on Earth (Saturday).
- Kept the annual Holy Days including Passover every year of his life.
- Never eat unclean foods (pig, shrimp, catfish etc.)
- Did not want any religious leader to be called "father" for there is but one Father in Heaven.
- Prayed to One God Almighty.
- Never had anything crafted in the image of something in Heaven (whether prayed to or not).
But the Resurrected Jesus did this:
-He defeated death through sin
-Made the faith a Gentile faith not just a Jewish one
-It became redemption through Faith not just the Law
-He became the Lamb of sacrifice
-We no longer need Circumcision
-We can eat unclean food, all food is made clean
-The Holy Spirit was left for us as Comforter
-Asended to a higher plane higher than the Heavens
-Is able to open the Seals
-Is now King of Kings higher than the non Christ on the Cross
If Jesus had stayed and refused the cross and people believed, maybe we do not know if he could have opened the Seals, that we do not know but it seems tha case so it means it had to happen. Would he be titled as King of Kings, would he be able to take Lucifers Morning Star Title from him had he not?
For the Islamic faith we know he just went to heaven and Judas went on the cross instead, even if that did happen in some off shoot universe the Christ the Christians know will always be the King of Kings, the Cross has always been Eternal as part of God's plan to redeem us, it is a universal make up of Christ who was outside our timeline of earth, it glues the universe together.
He can now open the Seals, why would there be Seals, are they other dimentions and timelines and death it self in which he can manipulate along with Hades which he has power over? Jesus can come down as judge aswell he has all the titles now, even though man was left alone because we became like god's, knowing good and evil he has the right to throw the devil to hell in which he roams the earth according to what the Bible says, but before hand God will agree to hand over the power to the Beast to settle the differences so that what is evil will always be know as evil in the face of innocence of being non the wiser.
edit on 27-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)
Wow if I said Jesus = Alien vs Jesus is Christ they would have all flocked here, never mind.
reply to post by The time lord
Interesting concept. Maybe you need to spell out some more details to get some interest going.
You know its reasonabe to believe that Lucifer,or Satan, was originally intended to be the overlord of the Sol system. Then he became corrupt when he convinced Adam and Eve to rebel. That is why he is called the god of this system and has authority over all the kingdoms. Every star system needs an overseer and eventually Jesus will replace this defective overlord.
Interesting concept. Maybe you need to spell out some more details to get some interest going.
You know its reasonabe to believe that Lucifer,or Satan, was originally intended to be the overlord of the Sol system. Then he became corrupt when he convinced Adam and Eve to rebel. That is why he is called the god of this system and has authority over all the kingdoms. Every star system needs an overseer and eventually Jesus will replace this defective overlord.
reply to post by The time lord
Pre-resurrection Jesus was physical.
Post-resurrection Jesus was transphysical.
Each of us knows what the first is but as transphysical man he appeared and disappeared from locked rooms.
Yet he ate and drank and could be touched as a physical being.
He was recognizable but strangely different.
I will find the references if you are interested.
Pre-resurrection Jesus was physical.
Post-resurrection Jesus was transphysical.
Each of us knows what the first is but as transphysical man he appeared and disappeared from locked rooms.
Yet he ate and drank and could be touched as a physical being.
He was recognizable but strangely different.
I will find the references if you are interested.
Originally posted by The time lord
For the Islamic faith we know he just went to heaven and Judas went on the cross instead, even if that did happen in some off shoot universe
(no reason given)
What if someone else really died on the cross instead of Jesus????
edit on 28-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)
reply to post by QuantumSeeker
Many people were killed on crosses across Israel, Jesus had to be of a pure bloodline and be part God and Human flesh so that the two realms could be redeemed, the physical realm and the spiritual realm. Some people do carry the cross spiritually and scars of Christ because they take part of the responsibility of the sins of the world, Stigmata is one example.
en.wikipedia.org...
Many people were killed on crosses across Israel, Jesus had to be of a pure bloodline and be part God and Human flesh so that the two realms could be redeemed, the physical realm and the spiritual realm. Some people do carry the cross spiritually and scars of Christ because they take part of the responsibility of the sins of the world, Stigmata is one example.
en.wikipedia.org...
Stigmata (singular stigma) are bodily marks, sores, or sensations of pain in locations corresponding to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus, such as the hands and feet. In some cases, rope marks on the wrists have accompanied the wounds on the hands.
The term originates from the line at the end of Saint Paul's Letter to the Galatians where he says, "I bear on my body the marks of Jesus." Stigmata is the plural of the Greek word στίγμα stigma, meaning a mark or brand such as might have been used for identification of an animal or slave. An individual bearing stigmata is referred to as a stigmatic or a stigmatist.
Text
"If Jesus had stayed and refused the cross and people believed, maybe we do not know if he could have opened the Seals, that we do not know but it
seems tha case so it means it had to happen. Would he be titled as King of Kings, would he be able to take Lucifers Morning Star Title from him had he
not? "
You are missing something here....It's His death as the sacrificial lamb that provided the atonement of sin, therefore if he had just stayed and people believed what purpose would have been achieved? Many in the House of Judah did not accept Jesus because they expected the Messiah to come then as a conquering King, they just did not see Gods intended purpose all along in scripture. They stumbled over the stumbling stone because their own carnal condition prevented them from recognising their Messiah. And some recognised Him yet were unwilling to give up their power...
As far as the Morning Star title, this has always belonged to Jesus. I believe that a translation version attributed this title to Satan/Lucifer, but that it was incorrect.
You do realise that God never changed, right? His promise was to provide a new covenant for both the House of Israel and House of Judah by providing the Messiah? So, He preached first to the House of Judah ("Jew/Judean) and for the most part they rejected Him- then it went to the "Gentiles" (nations) which were the House of Istael that had been divorced and dispersed by God 700+ years prior. Both Houses have been reconciled, along with aliens and strangers, since the time of Jesus' death. The Elect of Israel are contained within the Christian community.
I'm not sure that I understand your question regarding the seals? But if I had to take a shot at what I think you are asking - how could Jesus have opened the Seals if he had not died - I'd say that He would not have had the Authority because His faithfulness to God the Father was demonstrated by His fulfilling His mission. As Saviour of His Sheep and the world, He earned the rights as King and Lord to pass judgement.
My take on it anyway..
You are missing something here....It's His death as the sacrificial lamb that provided the atonement of sin, therefore if he had just stayed and people believed what purpose would have been achieved? Many in the House of Judah did not accept Jesus because they expected the Messiah to come then as a conquering King, they just did not see Gods intended purpose all along in scripture. They stumbled over the stumbling stone because their own carnal condition prevented them from recognising their Messiah. And some recognised Him yet were unwilling to give up their power...
As far as the Morning Star title, this has always belonged to Jesus. I believe that a translation version attributed this title to Satan/Lucifer, but that it was incorrect.
You do realise that God never changed, right? His promise was to provide a new covenant for both the House of Israel and House of Judah by providing the Messiah? So, He preached first to the House of Judah ("Jew/Judean) and for the most part they rejected Him- then it went to the "Gentiles" (nations) which were the House of Istael that had been divorced and dispersed by God 700+ years prior. Both Houses have been reconciled, along with aliens and strangers, since the time of Jesus' death. The Elect of Israel are contained within the Christian community.
I'm not sure that I understand your question regarding the seals? But if I had to take a shot at what I think you are asking - how could Jesus have opened the Seals if he had not died - I'd say that He would not have had the Authority because His faithfulness to God the Father was demonstrated by His fulfilling His mission. As Saviour of His Sheep and the world, He earned the rights as King and Lord to pass judgement.
My take on it anyway..
reply to post by WhoKnows100
I don't think we are disagreeing maybe I just did not explain my self better.
For the seals to open they need one who has authority to do so, and that involves over coming death, being perfect before death and being raised up again because death could not hold him down so he could raise himself in that respect and our bodies which he is related to us genetically .
Had the Jews accepted him, it would not have made much difference, some other group would have put him on the cross even so, it was a fate of events, Jesus did explain but it was rejected regardless.
Maybe a few Seals could be openned by the pre-resurrection Jesus but not all of them, they open up space and time and death and hell. But the effect would have been different I believe in their meanings, had Jesus stayed at some point he would have to ressurect the people of the world so seals and trumpets would have had to be played out anyway.
I don't think we are disagreeing maybe I just did not explain my self better.
For the seals to open they need one who has authority to do so, and that involves over coming death, being perfect before death and being raised up again because death could not hold him down so he could raise himself in that respect and our bodies which he is related to us genetically .
Had the Jews accepted him, it would not have made much difference, some other group would have put him on the cross even so, it was a fate of events, Jesus did explain but it was rejected regardless.
Maybe a few Seals could be openned by the pre-resurrection Jesus but not all of them, they open up space and time and death and hell. But the effect would have been different I believe in their meanings, had Jesus stayed at some point he would have to ressurect the people of the world so seals and trumpets would have had to be played out anyway.
edit on 28-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)
I believe the Jesus we read although he had authority in his works like telling the Jews to not cast those stones because he knew of their sins and he
was judged for healing on the sabbath his authority allowed him to do these things because of who he was.
He would have made everything clean had he been accepted but man could never do that so in reverse of God rejecting Adam, man rejected Christ but in a man's body he was able to defeat death and become law of death it self that he can resurrect man at an opointed time.
He would have made everything clean had he been accepted but man could never do that so in reverse of God rejecting Adam, man rejected Christ but in a man's body he was able to defeat death and become law of death it self that he can resurrect man at an opointed time.
reply to post by The time lord
Fulfilled the Law as in actually doing them? No.
Fulfilled the Law in reinterpreting what the fundamental law is behind the old, written law? Yes.
Jesus did not come to show how to keep the Law of Moses but to demonstrate how, as the holder of God's authority, his power is higher than what is written, and supersedes it. In fact Jesus is now the means of transmission of the law that is currently in effect, through spiritual means.
Christianity as a religion is very specific and not open to ambiguous interpretations. Jesus is God, as far as we can understand and being so, not under obligation to accept the rulings of people pretending to be the experts in the Law. To be more specific, people who are not Christian and in fact are what appears to be members of the same sort of class as those who had Jesus crucified.
. . . because he became the sacrificial lamb he fulfilled the laws.
Fulfilled the Law as in actually doing them? No.
Fulfilled the Law in reinterpreting what the fundamental law is behind the old, written law? Yes.
Jesus did not come to show how to keep the Law of Moses but to demonstrate how, as the holder of God's authority, his power is higher than what is written, and supersedes it. In fact Jesus is now the means of transmission of the law that is currently in effect, through spiritual means.
Christianity as a religion is very specific and not open to ambiguous interpretations. Jesus is God, as far as we can understand and being so, not under obligation to accept the rulings of people pretending to be the experts in the Law. To be more specific, people who are not Christian and in fact are what appears to be members of the same sort of class as those who had Jesus crucified.
edit on 2-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by The time lord
Pre-resurrection Jesus was physical.
Post-resurrection Jesus was transphysical.
Each of us knows what the first is but as transphysical man he appeared and disappeared from locked rooms.
Yet he ate and drank and could be touched as a physical being.
He was recognizable but strangely different.
by transphysical you could be meaning he had a 'quickened' or 'transfigured' body
doubting Thomas, one of the disciples, disbelieved it was the Jesus/Teacher he walked with for the 3+ year Mission
the story goes that Jesus showed him the crucifixion wounds (feet, hands, ribcage) and Thomas touched the not bleeding wounds.
so, the transfiguration or resurrection body will only be a reanimated body, it will not be in a repaired state...
it is thought, assumed that the reanimated Jesus aka: Christ, ate, slept, drank, sweated, panted and all the other normal functions that naturally born humans and all other animals do.
i guess that the resurrected Jesus, was clothed in the burial shroud when reunited with the inner-circle (sans Judas) or else the Angel that stood in the tomb to Sat to the 2 Mary followers -> 'He is Risen'...
must have brought or produced a new toga &/or robe for the Risen Jesus (now Christ/Lord) to wear for the next 40 days of instructing the disciples on the Miracles they would perform and the Kingdom
but ... later he warned other followers to not touch him in his 'glorified' body as he was to ascend to heaven with
so- there is a reanimated body, given life, that appears different & almost unrecognizable
then a 'glorified body' designed to enter into Heaven with
i tried to not step on toes or belief systems
but something isn't kosher with the reanimation/resurrection story
edit on 2-2-2012 by St Udio because: (no reason given)
John 6:15 reads, "When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone."
John 11:49-50 reads, "Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
Matthew 20:28 reads, "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
Jesus is the same Jesus today, yesterday, and forever. His will was always that our Father's will be done.
The seals are progression of time unto judgment/God's wrath upon the Earth. However, our Father's will is that none should perish but that all should come to repentance so we see that until the law passed away unto salvation by grace through faith, the seals were not intended to be opened. Jesus conquered death, hell, and the grave meaning that now, those who would be saved will be saved but God's wrath is approaching for the obstinately hardhearted, hopefully unto salvation as well.
P.S. Judas did not promise paradise to the thief on the cross beside him nor was Judas tomb empty after 3 days. No one took Jesus place on the cross.
P.S.S. Jesus told Mary not to touch him on the very first day of His ascension from Sheol, Thomas didn't touch him until 8 days later. We see the body is the same, only not dirty with the stench of death, decay, and Sheol. It was unclean to touch a dead corpse but Thomas hand was inserted into the very physical, same body as was crucified. Jesus get's to keep his body even in our Father's presence because God has glorified His Son in the flesh. The reanimation/resurrection story is in fact, kosher.
I wonder if by touching him it was too holy to do so, I also think he will show up with the same scares when he returns as some form of proof.
I think there are symbolisms in the events.
The nails in the hands represent healing the touching of the forbidden fruite
Nalied to the wooden cross represents the the wood of the tree
The pierced side represents Adam's rib.
The vingar sponge like the fuite passed onto Adam and Eve.
I think there are symbolisms in the events.
The nails in the hands represent healing the touching of the forbidden fruite
Nalied to the wooden cross represents the the wood of the tree
The pierced side represents Adam's rib.
The vingar sponge like the fuite passed onto Adam and Eve.
reply to post by The time lord
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever....
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever....
edit on 2/2/2012 by milano because: simplified
What people might find interesting the Laminin, call it Jesus is the Lamb or Laminin as a pun. It is a substance that makes our bodies in a shape of a
cross or cross like link to other proteins holding our bodies together.
Summary of the eRumor:
The eRumor talks of a substance called "laminin" that is described as part of a family of proteins that "hold us together." Then there is a picture of laminin---which looks like a cross.
The Truth:
This story leads into complex considerations of science and biology but the main questions it prompts are whether laminin is as important as the eRumor claims and does it have a shape like a cross.
The simple answer to both questions seems to be yes.
Laminin is defined by the Webster Medical Dictionary as a "glycoprotein that is a component of connective tissue basement membrane and that promotes cell adhesion." In other words, looking at laminin as a kind of glue isn't far from the truth. There are several different laminins.
In their book The Laminins authors Peter Elkblom and Rupert Timpl go into more detail about both the importance of laminins and their structure. They describe laminins that, together with other proteins, "hold cells and tissues together." They also say, "Electron microscopy reveals a cross-like shape for all laminins investigated so far." They went on to say that in solution the laminin shapes were more like a flower than a cross. The strands of laminins do not always stand straight and at right angles, but they do consists of arms, three of which are short and one of which is long.
Research has been conducted on laminins in connection with numerous conditions and diseases. It has been found, for example, that people with congenital muscular dystrophies do not have laminin-alpha2, which is normally found in the layer of cells around muscle fibers and other cells important to the structural integrity of muscle cells.
www.truthorfiction.com...