The cruel and violent new testament

A while ago I decided that I would read the bible in full, after reading the old testament I started arguing with my Christian friends about how violent it was, most of them admitted that yes it is violent but that the new testament was not. So, on I kept reading, and I found out just how wrong they were. Here is a small example of what I’m talking about…

Matthew

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and rents the vineyard to others. 21:33-41

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Luke

Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

John

"God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16

Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

Acts

Peter claims that Deuteronomy 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23

Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

Romans

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

1 Corinthians

Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8

If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9

Ephesians

We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11

The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2

Colossians

God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20

1 Thessalonians

God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10

2 Thessalonians

Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9

God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
Hebrews

God will not forgive anyone unless something is killed for him in a bloody manner. 9:13-22

The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28

"Others were tortured ... that they might obtain a better resurrection." 11:35

God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20

2 Peter

God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7

When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

There are so many more but you get the picture, now I know most Christians like to pick and choose but the fact is this is part of the Holy bible and that scares me as people like to (and have throughout history) used passages to justify atrocities. Fortunately most Christians I know hold their own morals above the instructions of the bible but if that is the case why even use the bible for moral guidance at all?

I'm assuming you found and typed those in by hand. Star and Flag for taking the time to put that together and present it in an easy to read and cross reference way. If more people would do that, there would be more understanding and less hate on religion.

I always thought the Old Testament was more violent and outright vengeful in terms of God's general attitude and approach to Man. That's where people paid on a planetary scale for misdeeds.

It's hard to top the Flood for sheer, insane overkill, when you put things that way.

reply to post by polarwarrior

Fortunately most Christians I know hold their own morals above the instructions of the bible but if that is the case why even use the bible for moral guidance at all?

Unfortunately, it's the loud ones that leave a bad example, those that rant with glee about the murder and bloodl bath that will befall us all. The meyham and hatred of this god, has me wondering who would ever want to worship this egomaniac. Fortunately, I believe this "god" is of the imagination of those who image their own dark sides.

reply to post by polarwarrior



And yet, when someone does wrong by you, you go to court and seek remedy. God loves and protects those who cling to truth and love. Those who separate themselves are doing it by choice. Nature reacts to our actions. If you read Ecclesiastes, Solomon laments over the truth. He knows it's accurate. What he laments over is the fact that he is unable to engage it while separated from God. Is this a paradox? No. It's missing the excluded middle. So are you by judging God instead of yourself. Consider this:

A train engineer and a friend have an argument about the pitch of the whistle changing. The engineer says it remains constant. The friend says it changes pitch. The engineer knew the truth of the matter but hesitated to tell the friend. He allowed him to find it on his own. This is a similar paradox to what was wandering around in the mind of Solomon. The train whistle remains constant to the engineer because he is moving with the train. Any train engineer knows the reason. The friend notices the pitch change and the volume change because he is fixed as the train passes by in movement. The Doppler effect is the excluded middle argument that shows the context of the truth. The truth is never changeable. What is changeable is context. Pride is what the friend experiences as he selfishly gets angry at his friend.

God is fixed and a picture of perfect light divided from darkness. He is eternal and unchanging. We are mortal and will die. Solomon did not know the excluded middle. We will become immortal and escape death at some point by extinguishing our pride. Immortal is still moving with active life, but in proper context to truth. When we live in context with truth, God allows us freedom in love. Pride excludes this possibility and we have what we see today.

To get the book of Ecclesiastes, I reconcile Solomon by context. Solomon did the same thinking you are doing as he reasoned out the end of his life. He knew truth as it appeared in proper context, yet realized that truth is vanity apart from God's presence and authority. This is the "King" speaking as if he had the authority. What he realized is that he was out of context with God. Not only was he a failed husband with 700 wives, but his son was a wreck and a wretch who cursed the King openly. Solomon's truth was profound but the evidence for its application was missing. Why?

All of the wisdom of the world is pride because it is taken instead of given. The toil we are under in the garden is a direct result of taking the gift of the fruit of knowledge in pride. We are currently in the context of the friend sitting on the porch of our pride as the train and engineer move away. We are left out of context with the ultimate environment of truth. Once the train comes back, we can get back on and have a perspective of our own journey. The best we can do while were are here is wait it out and make do in our misery and pride against God's perfect law and love. As a Father, He is guiding us to faith and love. You see him incorrectly.

As we wait, we can still learn to give to others in love. If we follow God, we are free from the law. Love needs no law. Pride needs a law and YES, it will be tough. Jesus said, "You must be born again." For all you know, you are that sinner punished by the law 3000 years ago. God is long-suffering with us and you will be born again unless you negate the possibility. The point of the train leaving the station was to allow us the perspective. Once the train comes back, the engineer informs us of the excluded middle. We are born into a thousand years of peace. We now have a reflecting point to see that it was not all vanity after all. Solomon was either aware of this or he had no clue in all his wisdom.

For me, this is the answer to my own pride. Solomon realized it as well. You can too. It is a lament of our glory being gone apart from God's authority. We need to return and allow the gift of the fruit to be given and not taken.

Anyone who reads & understands the "old testament" properly can't possibly accept Christianity as truth. They are incompatible with each other.

Jesus as a historical figure has been twisted & manipulated to suit whomever was in power for the first 1200 years or so ACE (AD). Nothing written in the "new testament" should be accepted as literal or true. Too much of it contradicts itself and doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Schkeptick
Anyone who reads & understands the "old testament" properly can't possibly accept Christianity as truth. They are incompatible with each other.

Jesus as a historical figure has been twisted & manipulated to suit whomever was in power for the first 1200 years or so ACE (AD). Nothing written in the "new testament" should be accepted as literal or true. Too much of it contradicts itself and doesn't make sense.

edit on 9-1-2012 by Schkeptick because: (no reason given)

The truth does not contradict itself. The context it is applied in contradicts the truth. We are out of context with truth here in this reality as long as we are walking away from God in pride. The entire story of the Garden of Eden to today is this walking in pride. What did God say about that?

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

This was and still is our choice. I thank God each day that I live that He allows us a gift of grace to return. Grace is unmerited favor. Read my post above on paradox. All paradox is reconciled by proper context. Truth does not change. A finite mortal cannot reconcile truth when out of context to its root. Any attempt is pride and failure.

See this thread. LINK Read my posts linked below. God is good.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Here lies the problem with an unbeliever reading the word of God. You do not understand what youre reading because you are not of his Holy Spirit. You may post what you like and say your opinions but you will be very very far from the truth. You see the words but you do not grasp the meaning behind those words. All you see is what is in front of your eyes while what is being said between the lines evades you. There's an entire story behind those words, but you shall never see them because you have not the spirit of truth. Pity.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Well you could be my guest and use your holy spirit to interpret Romans 1: 31-32 where it says gays deserve death?

Is "death" bible code for acceptance and tolerance?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by polarwarrior

 

Here lies the problem with an unbeliever reading the word of God. You do not understand what youre reading because you are not of his Holy Spirit. You may post what you like and say your opinions but you will be very very far from the truth. You see the words but you do not grasp the meaning behind those words. All you see is what is in front of your eyes while what is being said between the lines evades you. There's an entire story behind those words, but you shall never see them because you have not the spirit of truth. Pity.

Why do Christans tell non-believers to "read your bible!" Then, when they react like the OP, and call out the ugliness and hypocracy, they are told that they can't understand because they're unbelievers. You just can't win.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Well you could be my guest and use your holy spirit to interpret Romans 1: 31-32 where it says gays deserve death?

Is "death" bible code for acceptance and tolerance?

reply to [url= by polarwarrior[/url]


Truly great post the hypocrisy of Christians never ceases to amaze me and I'm looking forward to reading the forthcoming excuses.

The few posts already made in defence are so mind-numbingly pitiful and desperate you've already earned many a flag and star imho OP

The bible is a primitive book written by primitive people for a primitive age. We need to let it go and grow out of such superstitious drivel.

reply to post by polarwarrior

Well you could be my guest and use your holy spirit to interpret Romans 1: 31-32 where it says gays deserve death?

For that you do not need the Holy Spirit Polarwarrior. You just have to be able to read English. Let´s see the quote :

Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who, knowing the judgment of God, that they who commit such things are worthy of death; not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 1 :31-32

Where does it say gays deserve death ?
Here is a question for you. Have you actually bothered checking the verse which you quote? or you just simply copy and pasted some verses without context in order to make fun of Christians?

Peace

Originally posted by Seed76

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

It was a verse or two before.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Thank God for all His words in His HOLY Bible. I for one do not shy away or MAKE EXCUSES for the "Man of WAR" called God. (Exodus 15:3) I fully support God's killings and understand perfectly why He does what He does. If you don't understand it after reading the whole Bible, there are two reason why you do not:

1. You were not reading a KJV. But if you were:

2. 1 Cor 2:12-16

"12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the NATURAL man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. "

I know the mind of God. I know how He thinks. You apparently do not.

reply to post by polarwarrior


LOL
ever wonder why so many so called followers of Jesus emphasize faith over works?
despite Jesus's defining his true followers "by their works you shall know them"

because throughout most of it's history it's works have been bloody and evil, a blood soaked banner raised up in the name of the concept of Dominion.

"by their works you shall know them"

side note: ever see that globe with a cross on top in baby jesus's hand?
yup, it's the symbol for Dominion, used to be the astrological symbol of Mars [symbol of Venus reversed, hmmmm]as well, till christians replaced it with the one everyone is familiar with. hmmmmm

everything you hear nowadays when muslims are being bashed was true of christians back in the early days, yup terrorists, out to impose their beliefs by hook or crook, and worse, raping women is at least closer to nature, than what christians have done to pagan women and "witches" which goes beyond unnatural in many cases.


you really shouldn't bother them, though, christianity will be only practiced as a weirdo cult in isolated pockets in less than 30 yrs, as the transcendental paradigm reaches it's nadir within the next century, while the magical one rises

funny how they claim to be against the NWO when they've been fantasizing about one world government under jesus , confused much?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by polarwarrior

 

Here lies the problem with an unbeliever reading the word of God. You do not understand what youre reading because you are not of his Holy Spirit. You may post what you like and say your opinions but you will be very very far from the truth. You see the words but you do not grasp the meaning behind those words. All you see is what is in front of your eyes while what is being said between the lines evades you. There's an entire story behind those words, but you shall never see them because you have not the spirit of truth. Pity.

Why do Christans tell non-believers to "read your bible!" Then, when they react like the OP, and call out the ugliness and hypocracy, they are told that they can't understand because they're unbelievers. You just can't win.

Trying to justify your beliefs by using the bible makes you a closet christian. If you want to justify what you believe, youre going to have to stop relying on a religious text and think outside the box instead of using the same circular arguments all atheists do. Using a religious text to decry a religious text...cool paradox. Youre going to have to do better than that i am afraid.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Matthew
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill." 5:17 -Jesus came to fulfill the law because we cant. we are sinners.

10:34-36 -points to the fact of the variance and division between believers and non-believers. Even within the nuclear family, believers and no-believers are at variance.

11:20-24 -cities committing more evil than even Sodom saw Jesus and his deeds with their own eyes and would not repent. At the judgment, surely those peoples will have their reward just like anyone who turns their back on God and the gift of salvation through faith by grace.

15:4-7 - Jesus points out the hypocrisy in the Pharisees hearts and rule. Little children didn't do the cursing but young adults to adults rebelling against what was the law in times before Jesus ultimate sacrifice. Even today, if you kill, you are in danger of being killed.

21:33-41 - God sent prophets; the people killed them. God sent His Son; the people killed him. What will God do to those who defied Him when He returns. Duh.

25:41 "Everlasting fire" for those who don't want eternity with the one true living God, not those who Jesus doesn't love or want to be with him. If God is light and separation from God is supreme darkness then imagine eternity in a black consciousness-consuming fire; like floating alive through an electric storm in outer-space. Just a thought.

Luke
8:27-37 -more to do with lack of Jesus acceptance than any kind of violence. Is a man's life and soul not worth a million pigs?

10:10-15 -again, you don't want to spend eternity with God then you've made your own decision to spend it without him, tormented as that will be to have no real hope anymore of calling His name and getting an answer.

12:5 If you are going to fear anything, don't fear men who can kill your body but have no power over your eternal soul. Fear God.

12:45-47 As a servant of God, if you abuse your authority....God sees and there will be consequences. But whom the father loveth he chaseneth like a father who reproves his son for evil.

17:26-27 God didn't drown everything or everybody. God saw the evil unbelieving hearts and passed judgment only He is worthy issue. All belongs to Him and is His to deal with, and He deals righteously.

John
3:16 God shed blood to cloth the naked bodies of Adam and eve thus requiring through the law the same of men for remission of sins. He gave us His son so by grace through faith we might live. This is more beautiful of God and violent of men.

5:14 No man save the Christ of God remained sinless unto death. The wages of sin is death which is far worse than being alive and crippled.

Acts
3:23 Jesus is coming to take from the world his own one day. Refuse him and you don't have to be a part of his people. Your choice. Consequences follow.

5:1-10 Ananias and Sapphira did an evil thing. God chose the way He chose as an example to the people and to us. This story is not unlike the story of the rich man who was sad to let go of his possessions for to follow charity.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Romans
1:31-32 All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Anyone who has offended in one point of the law is guilty of it all. Anyone, homo or hetero, without Christ is doomed to eternity apart from God's light and Word. Identity based on sexuality is not Godliness for either of the aforementioned.
1 Corinthians
10:8 - God put in place certain edicts for a reason, first under the law, then under grace. Generations who refuse to obey God suffer life without him

10:9 A moment in time certain peoples refusing God and his message were dealt with by snake bites. other times the ground opened up and swallowed them. and so on and so on. God's righteous judgment for those who would rather ruin their humanity and this world than follow Him and Godliness.

Ephesians
1:4-5, 11 From the beginning God knew He would give His so for the remission of sin. Our choice is to rely on or deny Him.

5:2 God is well pleased in His son. He is spirit, not human to smell like one.

Colossians
1:19-20 -God shed blood first for Adam and Eve thus requiring it for remission of sins. The death (shed blood) of his son accomplished the end of that edict. Peace on earth, good-will towards men.

1 Thessalonians
1:10 Death comes to us all. Tribulation comes to refine the spirits of those who others refuse to believe there is evil and that separation from God is torment.

2 Thessalonians
1:7-9 We put ourselves there. We judge ourselves in this life, and when you stand before God in death, you may just get what you asked for...eternity apart from him.

2:11-12 Those who do not receive the love of the truth, in a certain time, will believe in a lie, the anti-Christ, for their salvation.

Hebrews
9:13-22 We forced God to shed blood first. His judgment is righteous.

11:28 And because of the shed blood of God's lamb covering us, we too shall be passed over when wrath is come.

11:35 The disciples, instead of turning away from truth, went into all the world suffering at the hands of men because of the gospel of Christ.

12:20 Mortality cannot abide the presence of God. Not even when He descends like a cloud on the mount to give Moses commandment for a people. Keep reading and you'll see we are not come to this mountain but unto Mt. Sion, unto Jesus.

2 Peter
3:7 God destroyed evil the first time with a flood, this next time with fire. The fire is able to be escaped, but only through faith. Nevertheless, some must see it with their own eyes to believe and many will come out of great tribulation. It's like purging impurity out of a precious metal.

3:1 All that does not belong to Him and refuses to belong to Him will burn as God purifies His Earth making it ready for regrowth and habitability for a new generation and time.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


I've read it all too. According to proper perspective with context, I'm convinced of God's authority, righteousness, and Love.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Thank you. Here is the full text of Romans 1:13-32. -The wrath of God – Idolatry and immorality

13Now, I do not desire to have you unaware, brethren, that I have often
planned to come to you, but so far, I have been hindered. [My goal] is that
I might have some fruit among you also, even as I have among the rest of
the Gentiles. 14I am debtor both to Greeks and to foreigners, both to the
wise and to the foolish. 15This is why there is so much eagerness on my
part to preach the Good News to you also who are in Rome.
16Indeed, I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ!a It is the power of
God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for
the Greek. 17For in the Gospel God’s righteousness is revealed from faith
to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.”c 18However,
the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and
unrighteousness of those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because what is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to
them. 20For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly
seen. They are perceived through created things, even his everlasting
power and divinity. This is so that they may be without excuse, 21because
knowing God, they did not glorify him as God or give [him] thanks.
Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was
darkened.
22Thinking themselves to be wise, they became fools! 23They exchanged the
glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible
man, of birds, of four-footed animals, and creeping things.d 24Therefore,
God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their
bodies should be dishonored among themselves. 25Having exchanged the
truth of God for a lie, they exaltede and offered divine servicef to the
creature rather than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions: their women changed
the natural function into what is against nature 27and the men did likewise.
They abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their
lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and
receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error. 28Even as they
refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a worthlessg
mind, to do those things which are not fitting. 29They have become filled
with all [kinds of] unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness,
covetousness, and malice. They are also full of envy, murder, strife, deceit,
and evil habits. [They are] secret slanderers, 30backbiters, hateful of God,
insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection,
unforgiving, and unmerciful. 32Knowing the ordinance of God, (that those
who practice such things are worthy of death), they not only do these
[very] things but also approve of those who practice them.

Peace