Pat Robertson: God 'Showed Me Next President'

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by prevenge

 

The Conspiracy slant is that people believe this guy to be prophesying the popular "God's" intent..

People's beliefs, either personal or collective, isn't a conspiracy.

i said .. AND they're using god as a figure to put their agenda behind.. CONSPIRING to do so..

you just want to argue don't you. nevermind.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Hmmmmmm..

Apparently this is just a trolling thread. You could have just stated in the title that this is an anti-Christian circle jerk. I would have brought my rain slicker, this is bound to get rather sticky.


Take care everyone, God Bless!

Even if I was a christian, I'd still be against someone trying to use "God" to bend people towards his personal political ideology. It's tricking people, and a deceitful tactic to play politics. If it's not too politically motivated, then it's just a publicity stunt.

Hell, I'd be even more against it if I was a christian. "Who would dare try to manipulate the faithful. Take the truths they know and try to bend it to his will."

~
Anyways, a God, that can't even show up to Non-religious, or people of other faiths, and say "This is me, I exist, and this is how I am." That's not the kind of God who'd, if even existing, would go to already believers and give them messages about politics. Makes no sense.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Hmmmmmm..

Apparently this is just a trolling thread. You could have just stated in the title that this is an anti-Christian circle jerk. I would have brought my rain slicker, this is bound to get rather sticky.


Take care everyone, God Bless!

Even if I was a christian, I'd still be against someone trying to use "God" to bend people towards his personal political ideology. It's tricking people, and a deceitful tactic to play politics. If it's not too politically motivated, then it's just a publicity stunt.

Hell, I'd be even more against it if I was a christian. "Who would dare try to manipulate the faithful. Take the truths they know and try to bend it to his will."

~
Anyways, a God, that can't even show up to Non-religious, or people of other faiths, and say "This is me, I exist, and this is how I am." That's not the kind of God who'd, if even existing, would go to already believers and give them messages about politics. Makes no sense.

Which, according to Christians-- is exactly what God did-- show Himself to non-believers and allow them to know Him.

Then he Ascended to Heaven and left the world to sort out that very personal self-revelation-- which changed the world and hopes and dreams of the faithful for all these generations.

That some seek to manipulate others based on that is NOT the revelation of God, nor is it the faith of the Church-- it is just people being people-- manipulating, assigning motivations to others, demonizing their opponents and other such human behaviors...

... which were NOT invented by, nor limited to, Christians.

reply to post by Frira


Even if the gospels of jesus were true, that still wouldn't change my point. A god that's actively hiding from the world, leaving many to doubt his presence, and withholding knowledge that would benefit humanity, wouldn't decide to show himself to one believer, to make a broad political revelation that's not at all insightful, who has personal gains to be made from the claim.

He simply wouldn't. So, if I were a christian, and how I'm assuming most christians think about this, is that this guy's full of it. Lying probably.

As a wise woman once said...

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

As someone who spent a bit of time in a Pentecostal church this seems to be largely true. It was simply amazing what "God" was telling folks. Sometimes even telling two people contradictory things.

Anyone can stand up and say, "God told me blah blah". It may very well be that they are just telling themselves that - and it often is.

Be very wary of anyone and I mean anyone from the homeless guy on the corner to that guy in the suit on the TV that says "God told me...'

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
reply to post by Frira

 

Even if the gospels of jesus were true, that still wouldn't change my point. A god that's actively hiding from the world, leaving many to doubt his presence, and withholding knowledge that would benefit humanity, wouldn't decide to show himself to one believer, to make a broad political revelation that's not at all insightful, who has personal gains to be made from the claim.

He simply wouldn't. So, if I were a christian, and how I'm assuming most christians think about this, is that this guy's full of it. Lying probably.

IF (a really big "if") God seeks to assist mankind to transcend our created nature, then that God might hide himself from our presence in the spatial temporal reality so as to draw out of us our spiritual nature to be more present and participating in the spiritual Reality.

If that s God's purpose, then Christianity may be viewed by some Christians in that light and be both true and reasonable. Ta-Da! Thus there are the likes of me!

Even so, what Pat Robertson has said and done in this instance as well as in other instances has me rather certain that that man is "full of it and probably lying."

I'll not assign motive to him. He has tied whatever spiritual experience he believes he may have had so tightly to his political ideology, that I leave room to doubt whether he knows the difference anymore. What he believes ideologically and what he believes God is telling him can not safely be separated by him-- without some crisis threatening him in that unnatural marriage.

My religious ideals meet my politics only at the possibility of the State taking the role of religion, or at religion taking on the role of the State. I like them both when not in striking distance of the other-- and without safeguards-- they will strike at one another.

Originally posted by Frogs
As a wise woman once said...

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

As someone who spent a bit of time in a Pentecostal church this seems to be largely true. It was simply amazing what "God" was telling folks. Sometimes even telling two people contradictory things.

Anyone can stand up and say, "God told me blah blah". It may very well be that they are just telling themselves that - and it often is.

Be very wary of anyone and I mean anyone from the homeless guy on the corner to that guy in the suit on the TV that says "God told me...'

And the Joan of Arc story has always bothered me for just that reason.

The Church is portrayed as insisting that her claim to have been instructed by God to do what she did was a delusion-- and yet secular society holds her as a heroine.

Burning her at the stake is outrageous, but her claims of "God told me to do it" is almost, but not quite, equally disturbing-- considering the carnage which ensued on her claim. Frankly, I don't find a good moral in that story-- unless you're French!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It is if the god they worship is actually the devil they claim to hate.

I guess I have to go to the source to see who the next president would be, that would be (in Pat's mind anyway) God Almighty. So he feels inspired by God and refers to the inspiration as something that God actually told him. At least that is one way for him to try to avoid ridicule somewhat and try to make people believe that he actually didn't hear the voice of God. Hearing voices makes you crazy you know? Pat is far more of a right wing tool then he is a prophet of God. I watch CBN and 700 Club for the political stuff and consider it a psy-ops of the far political right.

I love the American televangelists. The only ones I don't really like are the screaming stage frauds who send hapless witnesses reeling into the arms of ushers with a "Halleluyah!!!" and a quick right cross.

I like Jimmy Swaggart, because like his cousin Jerry Lee Lewis, he is a very good piano player and has proven that in the sinnin' department he can haul his own freight at least as well as Jerry Lee. Last but not least, he blubbers beautiful.

I used to watch the 700 Club occasionally and enjoyed it. I liked Pat Robertson and the people around him, particularly his attractive and earnest female interlocutors. Robertson always seemed to be high minded and concerned with weighty matters. I was disturbed, though, when he described how some Asian dignitary had gifted him with a nice statuette of the female Buddhist goddess of compassion, Kwan Yin and that Pat felt compelled to destroy it when he got home.

"Compassion stops here", the gesture seemed to say.

His voiced out loud mental diarrhoea on the subject of assassinating Hugo Chavez underscored my earlier impression of him. A wolf in sheep's clothing? An old fashioned tunnel visioned bigot? A "kill a commie for Christ" style crackpot? A twentieth century Torquemada in waiting? All of the above? Maybe.

There are lots of others, high and low, Rex Humbard, Herbert W. Armstrong, and Billy Graham, to name three.

I think that, generally speaking, Billy Graham was a very worthy advocate for the Christian life.

My all time favorite, though, is Ernest Angley, he of the saintly sweetness, the highly ideosyncratic rhetorical style and the periodic journeys to Africa to knock the demons out of people in the big leagues, not in some amphitheatre in LA. Love the man.



By the way, I am Buddhist, not Christian, denominationally speaking, and I know that there are many pitfalls that lie in wait for any televangelist, but I do respect Mr. Angley.

reply to post by prevenge


Thanks for a near maximum amount and intensity of insults and assaults to those of my perspective.

I sometimes think that Pat pontificates more off the cuff than off Holy Spirit . . . however . . .

this time, he could be more right than wrong.

I do think we have and are bringing a lot of traumas on ourselves . . .

even the good churches . . . by not being all they are called to be in terms of right living; loving service to one another and the poor etc.

I think most people in most Nations get the level of government they deserve.

Evidently we deserve a foreign traitorous Marxist Destroyer-in-Chief in the White House.

Certainly the globalists are bringing the economic collapse on the world DELIBERATELY in order to make setting up their global money system and NEW ORDER all the easier--on the ashes of the old system.

Yeah, it's likely to be a horrendous year in a list of ways.

We shall see how accurate Pat is, this time.

I think he'll turn out to be more accurate than not on this one.

reply to post by ipsedixit

I was disturbed, though, when he described how some Asian dignitary had gifted him with a nice statuette of the female Buddhist goddess of compassion, Kwan Yin and that Pat felt compelled to destroy it when he got home.

"Compassion stops here", the gesture seemed to say.

NOT AT ALL!!!!

Pat's set up OPERATION BLESSING to bring compassionate practical food, water wells; medicines; disaster relief etc. to millions around the world--100% OF DONATED FUNDS GET TO THE PEOPLE IN NEED. 100%

CBN covers the overhead costs.

The business with the statue of Kwan Yin had to do with BIBLICAL ORDERS TO NEVER TOLERATE

ANY IDOLATROUS ARTICLE, STATUE, IMAGE

WHATSOEVER

IN ONE'S HOME.

Further, he couldn't give it away as that would be giving something likely infested with demons to someone else.

My pastors in San Diego had Japanese friends who informed them that priests would pray demons into statues of the Buddah etc. destined for the USA to infect the USA with such spiritual forces.

THAT'S why Pat destroyed the statue.

God only commands that you slay that which would enslave you.

reply to post by minor007

but to add ppl who claim to have been "told by god" tend to have a mental illness

Actually,

my PhD clinical psychology dissertation was smack in the middle of that issue

and your assertion is simply

WHOLESALE UNTRUE.

I won't go into details to protect my anonymity.

I will add that Pentecostals routinely hear from God.

The Bible in I Corinthians 12-14 outlines the proper boundaries of such hearing.

Basically, the local congregation is to prayerfully weigh what's said/heard prophetically and vet what they are convinced is authentic and discard the rest.

In terms of mental illness . . . Pentecostals have NO HIGHER INCIDENCE OF MENTAL ILLNESS than any other religious group. Some surveys and measures indicated they had slightly LESS of an incidence in their groups, of mental illness.

I also examined atheists and agnostics . . . IIRC, they measured less robustly positive on a measure or two.

I've misplaced my dissertation or I'd try and look up what that issue or two were about.

I don't recall if it was something about their conceptual systems or one of the personality variables from the personality test.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sadly, too true.

IF the issue was to weigh and discuss the likelihood of Pat's assertion being accurate, then it might have been a reasonably legitimate thread.

However, on ATS, one can virtually rest assured that if any aspect or element of Christianity begins a new thread, the goal is most likely to trash Christianity

OR

IT WILL QUICKLY BE TURNED INTO THAT

by the vast majority of posters.

Christianity and Christians are simply NOT VERY WELCOME on ATS by the vast majority . . . at all.

In terms of Pat Robertson, he is repeatedly one of the more

'attractive Christians to trash'

seemingly, from the perspective of those assaulting Christians and Christianity.

I think only Benny Hinn gets more assaults hereon.

Sometimes Pat's brash words may make it too easy to do so.

In this case, I think his words were quite reasonably put. We shall see how accurate they turn out to be.

Sometimes it seems like his own biases may distort what he hears from God. Sometimes, he seems to hear fairly purely and clearly.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Thankyou for clarifying that. It sounds a little "magical" to me.

I'm sure he does many good works, though, as do devotees of Kwan Yin.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Are you a professional Psychologist? Or is this a part-time hobby you've picked up?

Uhhhhhhhh . . . virtually all the non-Christians on ATS

seem to be 'qualified in their own eyes' to express such assaultive convictions.

They even seem to feel it is THEIR DUTY to do so.

It gets old. Very old.

Thankfully, in this case, Pat is quite calm and reasoned and, imho, seems to have more or less accurately heard from The Lord on the issues he mentions.

Certainly I've felt similarly on such things in my prayer times.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I understand your perspective.

Pat's and my cosmologies include fallen angels and demonic forces.

That includes the capacity and inclincation of some such to, at least at times, appear as angels of light; light bearers; healers; etc. etc. etc.

in seductive strategies to interpose themselves between the individual and God Almighty--and ultimately to displace God Almighty in the individual's life as THE PRIORITY source of "good" (usually in selfish terms) and powerful things.


The QUEEN OF HEAVEN meme, personage has been manifested in many ancient cultures . . . involving some form of demon worship, demon gods etc.

Yes, I lived in China for years and agree that many devotees of Kwan Yin do many good works.

The Christian perspective . . . and Pat's perspective . . . is that ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY is to be sought as THE SOURCE of all that is good.

ANY OTHER--particularly supernatural/magical--source--e.g. Kwan Yin--or the demonic moon god of Islam--Allah--is to be considered accursed as a usurper of GOD'S GLORY--OF GOD'S SOLITARY AND EXCLUSIVE ROLE AS ADMINISTRATOR OF BLESSINGS TO MANKIND.

Chinese consider Kwan Yin as 'magical' as any personage in their cosmology.

One has to consider the evidence and make one's choice as to whom one will serve.

Ultimately, there are not, foundationally, a lot of choices.

imho, Pat sought God Almighty as the only valid source of supernatural knowledge about the USA in the coming year . . . and God honored that choice and that seeking with valid, true information.

.
.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

I understand your perspective.

Pat's and my cosmologies include fallen angels and demonic forces.

That includes the capacity and inclincation of some such to, at least at times, appear as angels of light; light bearers; healers; etc. etc. etc.

in seductive strategies to interpose themselves between the individual and God Almighty--and ultimately to displace God Almighty in the individual's life as THE PRIORITY source of "good" (usually in selfish terms) and powerful things.

I'm not sure that description doesn't apply to Pat Robertson himself.

The QUEEN OF HEAVEN meme, personage has been manifested in many ancient cultures . . . involving some form of demon worship, demon gods etc.

Yes, I lived in China for years and agree that many devotees of Kwan Yin do many good works.

The Christian perspective . . . and Pat's perspective . . . is that ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY is to be sought as THE SOURCE of all that is good.

With the exception of Pat himself, of course. It's a line of transmission, one assumes from God to Pat to Pat's devotees, followers, adherents, audience, . . . contributors, or what have you. I'm sure he has all of the above.

ANY OTHER--particularly supernatural/magical--source--e.g. Kwan Yin--or the demonic moon god of Islam--Allah--is to be considered accursed as a usurper of GOD'S GLORY--OF GOD'S SOLITARY AND EXCLUSIVE ROLE AS ADMINISTRATOR OF BLESSINGS TO MANKIND.

I think, essentially, that is an attitude problem. Intolerance is really a small psychological problem but it can be and is usually whipped up into stupendous proportions in politics and religion or the combination of the two.

Chinese consider Kwan Yin as 'magical' as any personage in their cosmology.

In using the word "magical" I was referring to Pat's antidote to the perceived potential threat posed by the statue.

His handling of the statue was very simple minded and offensive, to me at least, and like his musings about whether the government shouldn't assassinate Hugo Chavez underlines for me the fact that Pat Roberston is neither a fit vehicle for action on the international stage nor the right choice to occupy the pulpit or the rostrum of any church.

He would be more than welcome to take a seat at service or serve on a comittee. He's not ready for heavy responsibility.

One has to consider the evidence and make one's choice as to whom one will serve.

One must weigh evidence in accordance with one's competence to do so, alas. The mysteries of psychology and unapprehended influences too often lay a finger, ever so gently on the balance.

Ultimately, there are not, foundationally, a lot of choices.

Nor a lot of people able to make decisions on a fundamental basis.

imho, Pat sought God Almighty as the only valid source of supernatural knowledge about the USA in the coming year . . . and God honored that choice and that seeking with valid, true information.

I think you are a sincere person, but I can't agree with your judgement.

So exactly whom did God say would be president???? Did he say???

This sheister is right up there with Harold Camping and Bush Jr.