If you don’t believe in chemtrails why are you here?

It seems very strange to me that almost every chemtrail thread here on ATS has the same unbelievers posting almost altogether each time I honestly believe they all know the truth and are hell bound bent on trying to keep the truth suppressed.
Why would they be so hell bound bent on being involved in threads they don’t believe in.
It is like Bart Simpson going for the cup cake that Lisa attached an electrical current to; Bart just kept on trying to touch it even though he was zapped every time
It is very obvious they have something to hide.

Why am I here? Because "chemtrails" don't make up the totality of this website. It's one of many, many topics.

I think chemtrails are bunk. You apparently don't. That's where it ends.

Why all the hostility?

have you ever thought though.. without the skeptics and debunkers every subject here would be filled with nonsense and mis/disinformation.

Those guys are a valuable part of our community, they help keep you grounded and prevent people with more of a naive nature from becoming influenced by information that is not correct. (not to mention some unsavoury characters which tend to be interested in this conspiracy world)

to the debunkers and skeptics....

reply to post by jtap66

OP is referring to the chemtrail threads, not ATS in general.
Go to any chemtrail thread, and you will understand. I have posted, and/or monitored them for years and you see the exact same pattern over and over.
This question has been asked before, and they something along the lines of "to educate you" or some such nonsense. Any normal person that thought chemtrails were bogus, would state their views and get bored after a while. Not these clowns, the hand around daily for years. Then, a new user shows up with the exact same posting style. Never a gap.
Paid.

reply to post by killemall


It seems very strange to me that almost every chemtrail thread here on ATS has the same believers posting almost altogether each time I honestly believe they all know the truth and are hell bound bent on trying to keep the truth suppressed.

That truth being, there are no chemtrails.

How about you answer my question? :

If you believe in chemtrails, why can't you spend 15 minutes of time learning actual science behind CONTRAILS so you can better determine if your suspect trails are indeed "chemtrails".

It's the same thing over and over, contrails can't last and linger. Yes, they totally can and do all the time.

don't feel bad, I feel for this crap myself. But, unlike most of the chemtrail promoters, I did some BASIC research.

Once you learn a little bit of grade 10 science, the whole chemtrail thing falls apart.

This isn't to say geo-engineering isn't real, it sure it, and is taking place, just not using military or commercial jets and spraying.

Originally posted by Misterlondon
have you ever thought though.. without the skeptics and debunkers every subject here would be filled with nonsense and mis/disinformation.

Those guys are a valuable part of our community, they help keep you grounded and prevent people with more of a naive nature from becoming influenced by information that is not correct. (not to mention some unsavoury characters which tend to be interested in this conspiracy world)

to the debunkers and skeptics....

I think the problem is with cynics.
Trolls in the disguise of skeptics.

Personally I think chemtrails are bunk as well, but who knows.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

This isn't to say geo-engineering isn't real, it sure it, and is taking place, just not using military or commercial jets and spraying.

As IF you know that.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

This question has been asked before, and they something along the lines of "to educate you" or some such nonsense. Any normal person that thought chemtrails were bogus, would state their views and get bored after a while. Not these clowns, the hand around daily for years. Then, a new user shows up with the exact same posting style. Never a gap. Paid.

Ahh yes, because we disagree, and use, GASP, science to back our opinions, we are obviously paid right?

Well, how about the fact that those same threads are filled with people like the op there, who can't type a sentence without a smiley, posting the SAME information or lack there of, making the same BASELESS claims as the other posters.

They must be paid too right?

Explain to me the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail and we can discuss, but as I suspect, you don't know the difference, as most of the believers don't, and are basing their opinions of misguided assumptions and lack of scientific understanding.

I can come here and within 3 minutes have enough information to PROVE chemtrails are real and there is probably one above my head right now.

But that information doesn't stand up to scrutiny and simply doesn't mesh with known science.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Gotcha.

On the flip side, I've found that the chemtrail believers are usually among the most hostile, rude and intolerant bunch on these boards. That definitely sets the tone for the conversations that ensue. I think with a more reasoned and rational approach they could avoid some of that drawn out vitriol.

I typicall pop in, tell 'em they're full of it and leave.

I'm here to debunk chemtrails. Meaning I'm here to advance truth and science, and to deny ignorance.

Dear OP

I don't lurk your silly chemtrail forum. I simply click the 'new topics' link up top and these nonsense threads come into view every now & then.

I only click on them for a laugh really. Like was said earlier, anyone with a basic grasp of High School level science knows that the whole "Chemtrail" thing is a load of bull.

How many active jet aircraft are there on planet earth? How many people does it take to repair and maintain those aircraft?

Oh yeah almost forgot; What is the 'chemical' that is being sprayed and why does the amount of time it takes to evaporate into the atmosphere vary so much depending on what jet I'm looking at?

Thanks OP...

reply to post by Darkblade71

I think the problem is with cynics. Trolls in the disguise of skeptics.

you are correct. And it's rather hard to be a skeptic without slipping into being cynical when dealing with the type of "evidence" and "facts" that you get in relation to chemtrails. I myself try to explain, in each post, my problem with "chemtrails" but many are tired of it, and come off sounding rude or trollish, but if you went through their post history, you'd probably see them explain their view plenty of times.

What do they get as a response?

PAID

If you want to prove "chemtrails" you first must devise a method of differentiating them from standard contrails. This is where all chemtrail "science" fails, epic fail, as all of it relies on ignorance.

It requires you to be ignorant of what a contrail is and the science behind it, the conditions that create it, and the length of time it can stay present. It requires you to believe word of mouth from a blog over decades of scientific data.

honestly, in my opinion, the current "chemtrail" conspiracy is the exact opposite of Denying Ignorance, as you are required to be ignorant to continue to believe it.

That said, I fully believe governments would do something like this, and have done chemical tests like this before. Do I believe it's chemicals to kill us? No, that's not even silly, that's just stupid for so many reasons I'd lose IQ points explaining it here. I just do not believe the jets in the air are spraying anything. It's contrails and each and every video / photo can easily be explained as a simple contrail.

chemtrailers never provide time lapse photos. Never provide weather and atmospheric conditions. Usually don't even provide any clues to location and viewing direction.

I want to know, not believe, so I need facts. If you blindly believe, great, but don't piss on me for trying to PROVE what you believe.

Originally posted by Uncinus
I'm here to debunk chemtrails. Meaning I'm here to advance truth and science, and to deny ignorance.

Haha ....in your dreams man.

Yes ...you are here to debunk .....but it stops there. That's all you know how to do ....and frankly ...you and others aren't doing good at it.

debunk [diːˈbʌŋk] vb (tr) Informal to expose the pretensions or falseness of, esp by ridicule [from de- + bunk2] debunker n

Get real man ..... all you and others know how to do is ridicule and repeatedly link WW2 trails.

reply to post by dplum517


Actually that user has provided more information about aviation and contrails than anyone else on this forum.

But again, that's the difference. some of us want to know, some of us want to believe. Those of us who want to know, will do what it takes to know one way or the other, while those who want to believe, well, they just believe.

Anyways, with relation to some of these chemtrail threads, it's hard not to come off as ridiculing people.

In fact, I was told myself that informing users that normal contrails can last all day and fan out into cloud cover, was a form of ridicule.

If your theory can't stand up to investigation, what does that tell you?

reply to post by jtap66

On the flip side, I've found that the chemtrail believers are usually among the most hostile, rude and intolerant bunch on these boards.

This thread will surely become an example of that. and you are quite correct. Much like Ron Paul got sick of answering the same news letter questions, many "debunkers" are sick of repeating the same BASIC GRADE 10 level science that is required to explain "chemtrails", so they end up coming off as rude.

but like you said, and is evidenced in this thread already, it's the "believers" who set the tone, don't agree with their theory 100%, you are a paid operative. Must be nice being so important that "THEY" actually pay people to monitor each post you make and come and counter it.

Seriously, some of the users here are slipping into dementia and psychosis. And I say that honestly.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

As IF you know that.

As if you know anything to the contrary? you obviously don't because your chemtrail theory is still just that, a baseless theory promoted by people selling you stuff. where'd you hear about it? Icke? Jones? Yeah, none of the people promoting chemtrails are trying to make a buck off of the fear, at all.

I'm sure AJ sells those water purifiers out of the kindness of his heart.

Please, in your years of following this, please explain to all of use paid agents exactly what evidence and proof you have after so many years of investigation?

Is it that badly pix elated image of a refiling plane? Or how about that "secret insider" who "accidentally" discovered a spraying device built into a jet he was working on (hint, it's a de-icing device)?

You have nothing, and better yet, much like the 911 official story, you have to ignore some basic science for your theory to stand.

I avoid ridicule, as it's not productive. People get upset. Besides, it's not polite.

Anyway, the OP question seems a little strange. Why would you want to participate in a forum where everyone agreed exactly with you? Surely you'd want to be exposed to conflicting ideas, so you can figure out what is right and what is wrong.

One could also ask "if you DO believe in chemtrails, then why are you here". If your mind is already made up, then what is there to discuss?

reply to post by killemall


I don't believe in a chemtrail conspiracy, and I've replied in the threads where people post pictures of what I believe are contrails, and I've said I don't think they're chemtrails. So, I think I'm qualified to answer your question.

It's simple really: I'm interested in engaging discussions, and I'm here to talk to other people who are interested in that. I'm not at all interested in being in an echo chamber where I will hear things I already believe repeated back to me, so that I can then repeat them again. I don't see much point in participating in threads which seek only to affirm what I already believe. I don't think it's engaging or interesting, how could it be? Is there some value in knowing that someone somewhere on the internet agrees with you?

I'm open minded, and I enjoy the unconventional topics on ATS. I come here to learn about and discuss these topics with other people who are interested. When I see a thread about something that seems genuinely difficult to explain, I am intrigued. On the other hand, when people write about things that I think I have an explanation for, I say so. I know people are looking for explanations, and I'm interested in providing them when I can. I'm open to debate literally anything, but I distinguish strictly between debate and dogmatic insistence. In fact, I like to debate, and I always hope someone can provide a compelling argument for why a conventional explanation - such as contrails - is inadequate, or why an unconventional explanation - such as chemtrails - is more likely.

In general, I think it's pretty silly to accuse people who don't agree with you about something of being involved in a conspiracy. Reasonable minds - even very intelligent, well educated, open ones - can look at a lot of the chemtrail threads on ATS and rationally conclude that contrails are the best explanation. That happens and people say they don't think it's chemtrails. It's nothing deceptive or malevolent - people just disagree with you. Most people aren't even aware of chemtrails, and would tell you that the trails left by planes are contrails. If most people think this, is it reasonable to conclude that when you encounter someone on ATS who thinks it, that that person is not only not one of the hundreds of millions who genuinely do not believe in chemtrails, but that in fact they are an agent of the government, who's job it is to argue with you on ATS because you're too close to the truth?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

well, they just believe.

Nope I don't. I am extremely skeptical and of course don't believe every trail in the sky is a Chemtrail.

Nor is this the thread to debate whether they exist.

Chemtrailers arguments DO hold up. Go read past threads on this topic. Lot's of good information.

If you can't handle reading 10 patents that are atleast a few pages each then I can't help you understand. Refusing to accept patents as "possibilities for proof" then your logic is flawed.

I also don't discount peoples testimony of what they have seen. People have seen a lot more than just a trail in the sky.

And yes .... I completely think NASA is full of BS when they give us info on "Persistent Contrails" ..... that's where unicus gets his info and puts it on his site.

Chemtrails are real! I just left one here in the office...

OP - what is the point of this thread? You are criticizing people for posting their opinions by posting an aggressive and inflammatory thread that has no point other than calling people out.

Why do you claim to dislike the negative attention and then attempt to draw as much of it as possible to yourself? At least when the topic is chemtrails you are shielded somewhat from personal attacks - this post, on the other hand, opens up the door for all kinds of nastiness.