How to eliminate all taxes and still have a productive economy

This is possible if people accept one fact: that prices will indeed go up, but so long as costs are less than taxes it will save people money.

Example: most roads are toll free, but paid in gas taxes or other taxes. If taxes were eliminated roads would charge an upkeep but so long as it is less than current taxes it saves people money. The government does not outperform the free market and if contracts were competitive prices would go down. If a politician tries to swindle the system, people could just not drive on that street, whereas now it is impossible or illegal to not pay taxes.

Lets turn to libraries: if taxes were eliminated, library fees would go up, but remember that without taxes you would have more money to spend, plus those who do not like the library are not forced to pay for it. I use the library so I wouldn't mind spending more for it, especially if the quality would go up because it was based more on the free market.

Property tax goes against property rights, and unlike gas taxes, you can't just tell someone, if you don't like it, don't live in a home. Plus rent prices would go down if landlords did not have to first break even from property taxes.

Some say a military needs a tax, but first we should ask if any military really needs trillions of dollars compared to millions for welfare. This excessive waste proves a military would be more efficient if money was alloted in an intelligent fashion as opposed to the pentagon losing trillions here and there. And if you are really scared of foreign enemies, why wouldn't you volunteer to donate to the military? It must be strange patriotism if you want your country to defeat its enemies but you dont want to open your wallet for it.

Plus, with the elimination of taxes, people would have no real reason to be angry with the government, so they would eliminate all their enemies!

In conclusion, prices would go up for certain things, but

1) the free market would be more efficient, costing the payer less money
2) society would be truly voluntary and no one would be forced to work to pay the state something it prints out of thin air.
3) with the elimination of taxes, large segments of people angry over taxes would stop protesting against the government.

Thanks for reading everyone.

How about they stop charging me taxes for the thing i buy AND for the privledge of making money? I will never understand why i have to pay taxes to buy something and then also pay taxes just for making money. seems like it would just be fairer to charge the sales tax when you buy something. wouldnt it all even out in the wash anyway?

Originally posted by sempul
How about they stop charging me taxes for the thing i buy AND for the privledge of making money? I will never understand why i have to pay taxes to buy something and then also pay taxes just for making money. seems like it would just be fairer to charge the sales tax when you buy something. wouldnt it all even out in the wash anyway?

According to the free market, if you want a product, you should pay, or trade in value for it if you cant produce it yourself. No one has a right to anothers ability. So you are right, it is immoral to tax income as well as products purchased with that income. While certain public services would cost money, as is moral, it would cost less than taxes which make us believe certain services are free. As for the private sector, without taxes, products would be cheaper because tarrifs and income tax would not be taken from the business, so the savings are passed onto the consumer.

Taxes, eh? Well as far as the topic of taxes go, I say...

1) Make the wealthy pay their FAIR SHARE instead of the FREE-RIDE they have been getting at OUR expense, 2) deport illegals who MILK and TRICK our system while not contributing a DIME to it, or get them bums PAYING TAXES, 3) Get RID of that UNFAIR, BS tax called property tax!!!!

...just a few revisions that require IMMEDIATE attention in regards to taxes.

The current system would work WONDERFUL if there was some COMMON SENSE applied to it all.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Taxes, eh? Well as far as the topic of taxes go, I say...

1) We need to get RID of the property tax, 2) make the wealthy pay their FAIR SHARE instead of the FREE-RIDE they have been getting at OUR expense, 3) deport illegals who MILK and TRICK our system while not contributing a DIME to it, or get them bums PAYING TAXES...

...just a few revisions that require IMMEDIATE attention in regards to taxes.

The current system would work WONDERFUL if there was some COMMON SENSE applied to it all.

I agree that no one should have a free ride but if taxes were eliminated we would all be wealthy since we could keep the fruits of our labor. I'm assuming by wealthy you mean GE that didnt pay any taxes or politicians right?

See the problem with all of this is, even after the country has some how miraculously paid off the majority of its debt, and we are financially in the green, who gets all the money that goes back into the kitty?

if its unconstitutional for the government to use public funds according to the constitution other than to just run the daily operations, then what happens to the rest?

we can eliminate all the income and other taxes and it would give us the american people more to drive the economy and our personal lives, but the question still remains about the surplus funds?

Originally posted by sweetnlow


See the problem with all of this is, even after the country has some how miraculously paid off the majority of its debt, and we are financially in the green, who gets all the money that goes back into the kitty?

if its unconstitutional for the government to use public funds according to the constitution other than to just run the daily operations, then what happens to the rest?

we can eliminate all the income and other taxes and it would give us the american people more to drive the economy and our personal lives, but the question still remains about the surplus funds?

Once the roads are paid for you can have a toll free period. Once the library books are paid for you can limit the costs. Once tanks are produced, you only need to refuel them. Upkeep will never end, but it can take breaks, whereas taxes never end even though potholes never get fixed.

The debt does not need to be repaid if it was gained in an unlawful manner from a central bank.

What you are doing is just shifting expenses from one location to another.

WORSE - by eliminating taxes this way, what you do you shift the responsibility towards CORPORATES etc...basically giving them a free pass to make even more profit (and have more control) - since you move the task of collecting taxes from the Government towards corporations.

This is BAD, BAD, BAD..actually worse than having "government control" to what taxes are collected and for what purposes.

In addition, you also diversify those increased costs/fees....so instead of the Gvt collecting tax where you have an halfway way to see where the money is actually going you simply split it up and let 1000s of companies and corporates collect those fees...so how would you know where your money is going?

Lets get to "surplus" funds first then worry about what to do with them. Believe me there will never be a "surplus" of funds in our or our great grandchildrens future lol.

reply to post by filosophia


Well... You know MY solution, not only to taxes but to prices, poverty, war, profit motive, and a money economy. Supplant money with what it represents: energy. FREE energy via electrogravitics, a technology that has been hidden in black ops and suppressed outside of black ops for over 50 years.

Call for the release of electrogravitics! If We can get this technology released, power over Others will be supplanted with autonomous power over Self for EVERYONE.

For all ATSers, more about this may be found in My thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by flexy123
What you are doing is just shifting expenses from one location to another.

WORSE - by eliminating taxes this way, what you do you shift the responsibility CORPORATES etc...basically giving them a free pass to make even more profit (and have more control) - since you move the task of collecting taxes from the Government towards corporations.

This is BAD, BAD, BAD..actually worse than having "government control" to what taxes are collected and for what purposes.

In addition, you also diversify those increased costs/fees....so instead of the Gvt collecting tax where you have an halfway way to see where the money is actually going you simply split it up and let 1000s of companies and corporates collect those fees...so how would you know where your money is going?

Taxes are already diverse. Federal, state, city, property, gas, sales, income, at least with a voluntary market you choose what to support.

in a free market, everyone has a free pass to make money, this right should not be infringed for anyone. Corporations would not have some special leverage, only now do they get a free ride through no bid government contracts.

So you are right, it is immoral to tax income as well as products purchased with that income.

No it's not. It's less "immoral" than charging the SAME fee across society, say libraries, books, roads..even someone who fricking cannot afford books has to pay the same amount as someone who is rich?

Taxes have the benefit that, assuming i say there is 30% tax, 30% taken from the POOR and 30% taken from the RICH....it's the same percentage. It's "fair" in a sense. Someone with less income pays less, someone with higher income pays more - the SAME percentage.

It's still a 1000x better system than coming up with silly ideas like to "limit individual wealth" as we had a few days ago or communism.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Thanks for the tip, i've honestly haven't looked too much into free energy but will check out your link. Despite all the do gooders in government it's always technology that makes life more comfortable not rules.

Originally posted by flexy123

So you are right, it is immoral to tax income as well as products purchased with that income.

No it's not. It's less "immoral" than charging the SAME fee across society, say libraries, books, roads..even someone who fricking cannot afford books has to pay the same amount as someone who is rich?

Taxes have the benefit that, assuming i say there is 30% tax, 30% taken from the POOR and 30% taken from the RICH....it's the same percentage. It's "fair" in a sense. Someone with less income pays less, someone with higher income pays more - the SAME percentage.

It's still a 1000x better system than coming up with silly ideas like to "limit individual wealth" as we had a few days ago or communism.

Just imagine how much more money you would have if every transaction did not cost you sales tax. That would help the poor more so than anything else if products cost less money.

I disagree that your tax plan is fair because if you can produce more than someone, why must more of your goods be taken as opposed to someone less productive than yourself?

First, you can not call them taxes, it has to be revenue increases or the like. The Sheeple need a new and creative word to call a tax a tax. As for any tax increase, I am against any! I want every Department of this government to account and JUSTIFY every dollar that they receive from the tax payer.

Maybe that is why I am against the established parties and lean toward the Tea Party... the OWS could have the same influence if they got there head out of their arses and looked at it the same.
I do believe the power does wrest with the Citizens, we just are not using it. Both Party's need to be expunged and Corporation Contributions removed, along with term limits.. That would be a start.

reply to post by flexy123


No one in america is so poor they can not afford to buy a book. I go to the thrift store and buy books for ninety cents. And that is because people voluntarily donate books as opposed to the government forcing people to help the poor. If someone were that poor people would donate to them. Show me one person in america so poor they cant afford a book (but you shouldnt because its a trap, I would then reply, how could they be this poor with all these taxes in place?)


You seem to be concerned with the poor paying equal to the rich, but isn't equality a good thing? People are wealthy over others because of taxation and government subsidy. Daryl issa is the wealthiest member of congress at over 300 million dollars, is this a man of the people or a Roman senator?

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Thanks for the tip, i've honestly haven't looked too much into free energy but will check out your link. Despite all the do gooders in government it's always technology that makes life more comfortable not rules.

The important thing to grasp is the VERY intimate relationship money has with energy. All money represents is meaningful energy expended. The first farmer, miner, hunter, gatherer paid nothing for Their stuff (seed, soil, sun, rain, ores, animals, fruits, nuts, whatever). It was Their (Human) energy that gave what They had to offer "value."

Take the cost of energy out of things all down the line - through the negentropic and infinite free energy electrogravitics offers and through robots doing all necessary jobs no One wants to do (replacing Human energy), Humans will be freed from poverty and the need to slave for wages at jobs They hate (to the enrichment of the elite slavemasters). They can follow Their bliss within the three Laws.

The three Laws:

-----Do not willfully hurt or kill another Being
-----Do not willfully take or damage another Being's property
-----Do not willfully defraud another Being

I look forward to Your comments about My thread. [smile]

I think we all better take a look at Belize and see how they manage their country