The "Two Witnesses"...Can They be Identified?

There seems to be so many conflicting opinions on the prophecy of the "two witnesses". Some people think that this is still to be a future event. Some people say that the two witnesses are the old testament and the new testament. No one ever speaks about this particular passage (quoted below), and I wonder why. Could it be that it is an inconvenient truth?

Revelation 11 speaks about the two witnesses:

And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Make merry? Send gifts to one another? Hmm....what festivity does that sound like?

Could it be that the Mas in Christmas really implies massacre? Could it be that people are actually celebrating the slaughter of an innocent man because he told inconvenient truths and made the politicians and religionists of his day insecure in their deceits?

The two witnesses are just as likely to be the games "Risk" and "Monopoly" as much as anything else.

For instance in the old Testament, Moses calls on the Earth itself to bear witness of the Covenant between God and Israel. So the two witnesses could be Heaven and Earth. In fact one time Jesus was questioned on who his witness was, and he said the Holy Ghost bears witness to his words.

So....

Sending each other gifts because the Holy Ghost is slain? Earth. Heaven? Whereas the games Risk and Monopoly can themselves be sent as gifts. and no one who has won each of these games can claim they do not know what "risk" is, or a "monopoly".


As for me...

I figure the witnesses will not be inteligible to us untill it is too late. In true sociopathic fashion, human kind seems hell bent on it's self defined goals, and anything that gets trampled in the rush to progress will only be noticed in the rear view mirror.


David Grouchy

First never take a single verse from the Bible and attempt to use it as direction, understanding, or instruction.

This is the method many are lead astray by.

The Two Witness :

The Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John the Devine, Chapter 11, verses 3 through 13

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

As any of us can easily read the two witness remain un-named by John.

They seem to be described as two very real, flesh and blood humans who appear in the last days.

It is understandable that some Biblical Theory would identify the two men as Moses and Jesus, since the use of the term “they are the two olive trees, the two candlesticks, before the throne of GOD.

Since, Moses and Jesus are the two “light” bearers of GOD.

BUT,

In reality No one knows who these men are, yet.

Making “Merry”, the exchange of “Gifts” is a celebration of the Killing of these two witness by the rest of mankind.

The Christmas celebration is not celebrating the death of Jesus, but the birth of Jesus, so the Christmas celebration is in no way a reflection of the prophesy.

So, the bottom-line is that No one knows who the two witness are.

Anyone who is telling you that they know who the Two Witness are, is Lying.

You might be closer to the truth than you think:

Originally posted by Alethea
***snip***
Some people say that the two witnesses are the old testament and the new testament.
***snip***

***snip***
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

And it is true that the church (of any denomination) has a lot to answer for.

reply to post by Alethea

This business of making merry and offering gifts is the reversal of what happens in Nehemiah.
When Ezra has finished reading the Law to the people, he says to them;
"Go your way, eat fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to him for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord". Nehemiah ch8 v10
I think the implication is that the situation in Revelation ch11 is the reverse of that in Nehemiah ch8.
One is the celebration by God's people of the proclamation of his law,while the later event is the celebration by God's enemies of what they understand as the defeat of his law.

reply to post by Alethea
After the churches chapter 4 starts in heaven..before that the vision is on earth ..ie.the letters to the churches..


chapter 4/22 podcast 2nd part www.khouse.org... at around 10:20 of the clip chuck missler brings up the 2 witnesses ...

A female priest in Austrailia Robyn Grabar says that the two witnesses are "The Spirit" and "The Truth."

Timestop 16:40

Been watching a bit too much Dexter eh?

second

Many believe the witnesses from Revelation are Moses and Elias (Elijah) based on the miracles they will perform. Moses brought the plagues on Egypt and are similar to those the witness uses in Revelation. Elijah stopped the rain for three and a half years, the same as the other witness in Revelation.

Others have listed Enoch and Elijah since they both were taken alive into heaven. Although Enoch was taken before the flood, and is most probably a type of the Rapture related more to the Church. Moses and Elijah were old testament saints and are thus related more to the nation of Israel, and the tribulation occurs after the rapture when God goes back to the old testament way of dealing with the nation Israel. Hopefully, the Church will not be here to witness the Tribulation, so true Christians are not so much concerned about this period of time since they should be in heaven by then.

reply to post by brokedown


I am not so convinced that these two individuals or groups will consist of only men. The duality of nature and life alone tells me that the female prescence is very much a factor of being a witness. These two prophets are also known as "two olive trees and the two lampstands". Whomever these individuals are, they are used as examples of prosecution for their faith. When they affirm the truth to the nations of the world they will unlock the true nature of the beast, and they will do this with honor and might. They will "bring to light" all that we do not remember, when all is recalled humanity will see the light and go to it. When the darkness realizes it has lost its grasp, and the light dominates, that will be when this world will be rid of all the adversity and venom that poisions mankind. The "two witnesses" is what will save this world from the encompassing darkness.

PLPL


But we are also told to beware the false prophets. They are many, and mainstream.


The "fire" and plauge that they unleash on this world is not literal. The fire they breathe from their mouth is the truth, this "fire" is symbolic for setting the fires of mans mind ablaze. They will be speaking the truth and this will be something that nobody will be able to deny. This "fire" will encompass this world like a plauge, spreading the truth and destroying the deceit of man. Like a plauge spreads and infects everyone so to will the truth.

Originally posted by brokedown
So, the bottom-line is that No one knows who the two witness are.

Anyone who is telling you that they know who the Two Witness are, is Lying.

Matthew 11:14 'And if you are willing to receive it, he [John the Baptist] is Elijah who is to come.'

Explanation: During this time of the Tribulation, the two Witnesses, Enoch [also known as Moses] and Elijah [also formerly John the Baptist] will be preaching outside of the Temple, against the Antichrist, but the world will not realise the importance of the message they are giving and will hate them with a passion. Revelation 11:3-6

The Apocalypse of Peter says 'Enoch and Elias [aka Elijah] shall be sent to teach them that this is the deceiver [Antichrist] which must come into the world and do signs and wonders to deceive.'
Source: wesley.nnu.edu...

I present to you, The Two Witnesses:

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hoseyni Khāmene’i

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
I present to you, The Two Witnesses:

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hoseyni Khāmene’i

Star for you "this_is_who_we_are".
Not because I agree with the assessment of who they are, but
I have to respect the boldness of laying two face cards on the table.


David Grouchy

Two Olive Trees and Two Lampstands, 2 + 2 witness!
www.bibleinsight.com/1260p4.html
The two olive trees and two lampstands who stand before God - EXPLAINED BY SCRIPTURE!




the Revelations narrative tells us that the Olive Trees and the Lampstands are two prophets that will propheci for 1260 days wearing sackcloth (a kind of coarse fabric perhaps like the coarse fabric on see under a boxspring bed to keep the dust bunnies out...but not as coarse as muslin or burlap)

so, i would not go around trying to uncover just who might be a 2 Witnesses candidate..
because when their mission starts it will be self evident just who they are... dressed like clean beggars no less.
probably bearded too

Unless the sackcloth is a parable for
the shabby way TV treats The Truth and The Spirit.


David Grouchy

No matter what anyone as been taught, the fact remains that these two individuals called the “Two Witness” are not named, or identified.

The only true identification can only come AFTER they have been killed, and resurrected after 3 and a half days.

Anything outside of this is merely speculation.

It is true that even their gender is not identified, so there is a possibility that one or more could very well be female.

Speculation, mind you, but...

At that time, the Jews awaited Messiah and the Christians awaiting the Second Coming of Christ will be unified-- side by side prophesying to the world.

The prophecy of Isaiah 6 which prevented, for a time, many of the Jews from recognizing the Christ having ended.

That is, Isaiah 6 is/was so that the Jews would continue their witness apart from the followers of Christ-- but at the end when

cities lie waste without inhabitant and houses without men and the land is utterly desolate and the Lord removes men far away, and the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land...

THEN the Jews and the Christian will proclaim together the Messiah to the world-- and, of course, the world will hate them.

"and those who dwell on earth will rejoice over [their death]"

It is not pleasant to see, but it is there to be seen-- that men who do not believe in the witness of the Jews and of the Christians (or of any other spiritual people-- not just the religious) will none-the-less fear the Truth of God which will take away their ways, their gains, and their justification of how they mistreated others for what they possessed.

The time will come when such persons believe that the witness of the Jews and of the Church will be silenced and defeated. The worldly will celebrate the silence of the Truth-- the apparent defeat of the faithful, but only for a short time.

"After three and half days..."

Interesting-- just last night I was thinking that C. S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, intends reference to this miraculous return to life of those who fought and died in faith and service of the Most High God.

Maybe the two witnesses are us, or to be more specific 'conspiracy theorists'.

Ok so we don't perform miracles but we are ridiculed for searching for and promoting truth.

Maybe 2 has a significance in numerology.

People do delight in debunking, humiliating theorists, and such.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. If you have ever been a lone voice in a crowded room, you may identify with what I am saying.

The giving gifts and such, hmm. We all know that 'Christmas' is the biggest and most successful conspiracy ever. It is impossible to combat the scam because it is so pervasive. It exists because people ignore the truth, the fact that it is a conspiracy which empowers the elite who benefit massively. Some sectors of the economy rely so heavily on the season that without it they would go bankrupt.

Go to a christmas party. start talking about it and look at the faces of those around you. They will not cheer up until you have buggered off home and then they will celebrate your leaving and step up the frivolity.

I don't know if I am maybe a little sensitive due to feeling completely inadequate and isolated this year, because I am stuggling to keep up the charade this year.

I wish with all my heart this truly was the season of goodwill and such.

I love my family and wish we all just celebrated having each other a full belly, warm home, you know?

Yeah, the spirit of truth, personified by us truth seekers. We certainly bear witness to the world.

Getting ready for a roast now, not the edible type either.

ps I am a hypocrite because we do celebrate in my house, got kids. I do attempt to emphasise love and appreciation though. I wish my hubby wasn't so focussed on what everyone else thinks of us. He gets very depressed this time of year, he knows it's a sham but gets angry at me if I talk about it. He calls me a scrooge but he is the one like a bear with a sore head. I am serenity personified on the outside but inside I am going crazy.

Don't mean to depress anyone, sorry about that. I try just chill, enjoy but the social pressure is immense.

Sorry.

Namaste

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


Ah yes! That would make sense too. A definably maybe.

Are they conspiracy theorists too? lol

Namaste.