The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
Is it bonkers in here or what? Is it some sort of evil now to provide at least the most basic form of evidence? Where would the scientific method be right now if it followed the OP's logic?

Exactly.
Well said sir.

Not only is it "Bonkers" in here, it's also obviously full of MAD.

Worked for Iran... thought they were blowing smoke until I saw the mini-me version of the drone.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
Is it bonkers in here or what? Is it some sort of evil now to provide at least the most basic form of evidence? Where would the scientific method be right now if it followed the OP's logic?

Your beloved scientific method has proven itself a colossal failure and subject to incredible error. In the last few months, for example, the scientific method, which had previously been used to state with utter confidence that nothing can exceed the speed of light, FAILED to predict that outcome. Pompous adherence to THAT fairy tale is amazing. And yet no one had a picture of any of it.

Originally posted by MrSmith
In this day and age, especially on the internet, you simply cant trust anyone. ANYONE.

Therefore, pics..... or it didnt happen to all you ATS members.

This is the year 2012 people. The internet is riddled with stories and experiences, the one thing its not filled with is credible, non-fuzzy pictures or video or alot of topics talked about on ATS.

Therefore, pics..... or it didnt happen. I myself am tired of all the stories. It evidence time, or its shut up time. You choose ATS. Solid Evidence.

Yeah because everyone has a cam at hand all the time...

Gonna ask Plato for some pics too?

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

In the case of a UFO observation, additional evidence such as a picture or video would go a long way in helping to validate what a person THINKS they saw. Like I said before, human perception is a relative and subjective thing. Physical evidence or a photo or video can help make a sighting a more objective thing rather than a subjective thing.

Without additional evidence beyond what the witness says they saw, then the sighting is simply a subjective thing, and we are all at the mercy of the eyewitness, hoping that eyewitness did not make an incorrect observation.

edit on 12/9/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

Do you really think the ufo&alien phenomena is nothing more than hot air being perpetuated for thousands of years? This kind of reasoning defies logic at every level thus it makes no sense. I do NOT need pictures or videos to establish a case from a theoretical perspective.

Over the course of my five year membership here(two accounts) I have provided countless video and picture evidence and rarely do I get any positive feedback. It is usually whinning about hoaxes or misidentifications. THAT is why a lot of folks say the hell with evidence and listen to what someone has to say instead. You will learn more and it is less frustrating for everyone.

Only a hypocrite, paid or not, will cry for evidence and then turn around and throw that evidence in your face, thus calling you a liar.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Do you really think the ufo&alien phenomena is nothing more than hot air being perpetuated for thousands of years? This kind of reasoning defies logic at every level thus it makes no sense. I do NOT need pictures or videos to establish a case from a theoretical perspective....

I didn't say that at all. In fact, I've said that it is possible that aliens are visiting earth -- at least I can't say it is impossible.

However, what you are saying has nothing to do with any one specific sighting. Why should your belief in alien visitation automatically make every specific sighting of a strange craft or lights is actually something that is unexplainable to the rest of the world? If an eyewitness has made a sighting and has no other information besides what that witness says they saw, then we are all slaves to the subjectivity of that witness.

Like I said, a witness can be the most honest person in the world he honestly thinks they saw something unexplainable. However, considering the fact that there are documented cases of witnesses who THOUGHT they saw something unexplainable, only for the investigation to later discover it was explainable (and not an ET), most single-eyewitness sightings without additional evidence are just tossed into the "We can't be sure it was a UFO or not" pile and just be forgotten.

Such sightings that get tossed into the "We can't be sure if it was a UFO or not" pile due to lack of evidence beyond one eyewitness (which is a subjective UFO account) become meaningless due to lack of additional evidence. Additional evidence would help the eyewitness out in those situations.

Some people want UFOlogy to be like a science, by gathering evidence and using critical thinking skills to analyze they evidence. Others want to turn UFOlogy into a faith -- blindly believing what an eyewitness says only because it affirms their pre-conceived notions about alien visitations. It's like those blind believers are saying "I believe in aliens, so if an eyewitness saw something strange, then it MUST have been aliens". That's not the proper way to approach a UFO sighting.

I'm sorry, but even if it was a fact that aliens are visiting the Earth, not every eyewitness account of strange lights would automatically be aliens. There is no reason to blindly believe that an eyewitness did not misidentify something.

Originally posted by iSHRED
if UFO's are swarming in by the masses over the swiss alps, and someone on here is writing about it... thats cool, it makes no difference whether i believe you or not.

but if you post a vid or a bunch of pics of a mass of UFO's, ill think its crazy and tell all my friends to check it out.

a picture is worth a 1000 words

a word is worth... well, 1 word

And if the word is something like "FIRE!" - a word can be worth more than 1000 words and more than waving a picture of a flames shooting upward. Words matter.

As in the above picture,
this really is not a useful phrase in the situation,
nor is it useful here.

If credible witnesses are prepared to give testimony on this forum,
I am prepared to listen.

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI
If credible witnesses are prepared to give testimony on this forum,
I am prepared to listen.

I'm prepared to listen, also.

However, a single eyewitness's testimony (without any additional evidence) can only go so far in a UFO case. There are too many "unknowns" when it comes to an eyewitness account -- even when that eyewitness is honest, and they give an honest account of what they think they saw.

I say "think they saw" not because I necessarily feel that a witness was hallucinating, but sightings can be a very subjective thing. It's better to be objective when discussing a UFO case, and additional evidence (such as a picture or video) can make things more objective.

OK, never mind about the pics thingie.
The pics bit is a diversion.

Evidence, or it never happend.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
Your beloved scientific method has proven itself a colossal failure

The scientific method is a colossal failure? How can you say that? How are you posting to the internet for starters?

Originally posted by ommadawn
OK, never mind about the pics thingie.
The pics bit is a diversion.

Evidence, or it never happend.

That's even too harsh.

I personally would not feel that a sighting "never happened" due to the absence of additional evidence. HOWEVER, in the eyes of history, unless there is more than just a single person's eyewitness account, then a sighting is soon forgotten. That's because the human factor adds an aspect of uncertainty, because humans are not infallible.

That's not to say that history feels "evidence or it didn't happen" is the proper mindset, but without more evidence other than a single eyewitness, UFO investigators have no choice but to say "we have no idea if the witness saw something that was truly unexplainable or not". At that point, there is nowhere else the investigation of that sighting could go, so it basically becomes forgotten.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


So can you point me to something that is concrete proof that it exists? Maybe I missed something you have seen. I have yet to see a video, photo, or anything of the like that proves to me that what anyone claims is real. Not to mention all the photos or videos do is take you on a wild roller coaster ride. How many more times is the Patterson-Gimlin bigfoot footage going to be real, then debunked. New technology, now it is real again, then it is debunked again. I have lost count of if it is real or hoaxed again at the current moment.

Besides, the better technology gets, the more genuine the hoaxes are going to get. In 10 years from now, if not sooner, it will be impossible to tell the real thing from a hoax. In fact, 10 years from now, you won't even be able to tell you are talking to a real person or a computer unless you can physically see them.

Unless I missed it, I am not aware of a single stitch of evidence to date of anything that is the real deal. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever

I'm a bit confused. I never said there is definite proof that aliens are visiting the Earth.

I have said that an eyewitness account needs additional evidence before it can move beyond just "something an eyewitness says they saw", because humans see things subjectively and are not infallible.

That's not saying every eyewitness account is a mis-identification, but without additional evidence, there is no way to rule out the idea that it could have been a mis-identification.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


OK...I misread it. I got you now. Sorry for the confusion and making your fingers work some more.

Actually, I like what you said about mis-identification then. Haven't really thought about it that way before. Interesting take. I have seen some things that my head was telling me it was UFOish, but something inside was telling me just the opposite, that I possibly was mis-identifying something but my head was fighting like hell to see it as a UFO. We focus so much on the hoax theory, being told we are wrong, that we don't spend enough time thinking about it from the perspective of looking at in the terminology or thought process you are talking about.

My head is turning now and I am seeing something different, so I am glad I asked

Thanks

Originally posted by ommadawn
OK, never mind about the pics thingie.
The pics bit is a diversion.

Evidence, or it never happend.

Agreed.
At least some sort of mental evaluation of these so-called "witnesses" would be in order.
Do they have a history of psychological problems, has there been any kind of
substance abuse in their past etc.
Presently there are NO credible witnesses on the ATS.

Originally posted by LionOfGOD

Presently there are NO credible witnesses on the ATS.

WOW..!

Can I get a copy of that census you took of every member and guest that's on ATS?

What an undertaking that must have been. And what questions were you asking to ascertain such a bold statement..?

BTW.. PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
























Sorry, I couldn't help myself stepping out of the Moderator's shoes for a second[i/]