Mexico Acknowledges 2nd Mayan Reference to 2012

Originally posted by kdog1982
reply to post by PerfectPerception







There is also mentioned the The Olmec script pre-dates the Mayan script,which,according to my sources ,is not true.

Winters, an expert on Olmec script, which pre-dates the rise of the Maya, quickly recognized that one particular brick (T1 452 R16) was very special, since it had both Olmec and Maya script side by side.

Take a look at this timeline of scripts,go to the bottom were they show meso america.

www.ancientscripts.com...

edit on 25-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

I will admit that I am no expert when it comes to Meso- America but I am under the impression from what I know/read is that the Olmec is considered the "mother culture" and pre-dates the Maya,Aztec -

The Olmecs were said to predate the Mayans, and their civilization declined around 400 BC. Very little information about them exists, but some believe that the Mayan calendar originated with the Olmecs. They are said to have had a major influence on the Mayans and the Aztecs.

They were stone carvers, and some of their enormous stone heads can be seen in the Smithsonian museum. A ball game played by the Aztecs, ullamaliztli, was believed to have been started by the Olmecs and their religious beliefs were believed to have been adapted by the Mayans and Aztecs.

Link

Here is a chronological time-line-

Source

Many ancient artifacts of the Olmec when they were originally found were first thought to be Mayan-

The ancient Olmec civilization is believed to have been centred around the southern Gulf Coast of Mexico area (today the states of Veracruz and Tabasco) - further south east than the heart of the Aztec empire. The Olmec culture developed in the centuries before 1200BC (BCE), and declined around 400BC.

We know far less about the Olmecs than we do about, for example, the Aztecs and Mayans. There are very few written records to tell us about the culture.

In fact, at first Olmec artifacts were thought to be Mayan, and the Mayans were thought to be the first great culture in the area. The generally accepted belief is that the culture arose from people in the area, although some have suggested that the Olmecs may have originally come from Africa.

www.aztec-history.com...

A lot is not known yet about the Olmecs and speculations & different theories are still argued over their origins.

many people may not be aware that it is speculated that the Olmec were the ones who originally created the long count not the mayan -

Located on the back of Stela C from Tres Zapotes the second oldest Long Count date yet was discovered. The numerals written in Maya glyphs; 7.16.6.16.18 translate to September 3rd, 32 BCE in the Julian calendar. The glyphs surrounding the date are one of the few surviving examples of Epi-Olmec script.

The Long Count calendar used by many subsequent Mesoamerican civilizations, as well as the concept of zero, may have been devised by the Olmec who could have had it a very long time. As the six artifacts with the earliest Long Count calendar dates were all discovered outside the immediate Maya homeland, it is likely that this calendar predated the Maya and was possibly the invention, or something possessed of and by the Olmec.

Three of the six artifacts were found within the Olmec heartland later taken over by the Maya. An argument against an Olmec origin is the fact that the Olmec civilization had ended by the 4th century BCE, but we see this as no problem due to the active trade in virtually all other areas. The Long Count calendar required the use of the zero as a place holder within its base-20 positional numeral system.

A shell glyph, was used as a zero symbol for these Long Count dates. The second oldest of of these long counts was found on Stela C at Tres Zapotes and is dated to 32 BCE. This is one of the earliest uses of the zero concept in history on the par with the Hindus who also had a zero and vastly predates the Muslim mathematical system that also had a zero concept.

Link

The more I have come across, the more interesting it all seems to become,definitely need to look more into everything,this originally started just with mention of the second known reference of 2012 and has taken off from there,I would recommend everyone to look further & deeper into the Olmec,very interesting stuff indeed.

reply to post by PerfectPerception


Nicely done!

I went to the museums website and found this.

This is where the examiners abilities to figure this mystery out take on an almost comical note – to me at least.) Dr. Barry Fell, of the Epigraphic Society felt that the bricks were part of some type of language school at Comalcalco, where students used the bricks to write on. (Because using bricks to write on is so practical? WHAT?) The inscriptions weren’t visible until after they had dismantled the structure. Steele made the observation that the problem with the dating is that the languages on the bricks go back to 0 A.D. to 400 A.D., while Colmalcalco is believed to have been built and/or inhabited between A.D. 700 to 900. Steele believes that the bricks may have been part of a more ancient structure that was dismantled and the bricks used in the newer building. (Okay, this is a little more reasonable – LOL – although it still doesn’t explain the other languages.) He also notes that since they have only looked at 1/2 of 1% of the total amount of bricks, there could be a million inscribed bricks to discover.He also goes on to say that the linguists are all in agreement with the languages on the bricks, but mainstream archeology refuses to accept it, simply stating that it “just can’t be correct.”(This is where they usually lose it – by trying to fit the new information into the old framework instead of including the new information into a NEW framework – wouldn’t it just be better to say that they just don’t KNOW? Or are they afraid of admitting that some of their past assumptions might be incorrect? Hell – they’re ALL incorrect at one point or another – just depends on your perspective at the time – oh well. It was an interesting article anyway.)

www.foxvox.org...

I'm wondering if it was researched further or was just swept under the rug.

I think you need to start a thread on this,it definitely deserves it's own.

reply to post by kdog1982


Thanks,Yes,I also read that part earlier and thought it was interesting.
I think I just might have to make a thread as well,definitely seems worthy if it has not already been touched upon.

You mean a thread on the mysterious engravings on the bricks etc. ?

reply to post by PerfectPerception


Yes,the engravings that seem too have come from around the world.

I searched ATS and found only one post that just touched on the subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would be careful and research this Dr.Bell guy,though.

en.wikipedia.org...

The picture of the stone artifact.




www.msnbc.msn.com...

I almost forgot I came across it.

There is nothing to this. The Comalcalco bricks do not represent a Long Count date. They represent a Calendar Round date. The Calendar Round is based on the kaab and the tzolkin. The kaab is much like our own calendar with the exception that it is an even 365 days. The tzolkin seems to be used to determine when certain festivals and religious ceremonies are held and consists of 260 days. The Calendar Round date is then the date from both of these calendars. This means that a Calendar Round date will repeat every 52 years. For this reason Calendar Round dates were only used to refer to dates that had happened recently or were going to happen shortly. For a date that fell outside this 52 year cycle the linear Long Count was used. For this reason it is impossible for these bricks to refer to 13.0.0.0.0.

In regards to Tortuguero Monument 6, many researchers now disregard the prophecy aspect of it. The "prophecy" comes from an old translation done by David Stuart. In the intervening years a more accurate translation has been done and it has been found that the inscription refers to a festival that would occur on that date where a priest would wear the investitures of Bolon Yokte. However, there are researchers, including Stuart, who believe that the monument doesn't actually contain any reference to 13.0.0.0.0. So, as more research is done its is becoming highly probable that not only are there not multiple references to 13.0.0.0.0 by the Classic period Mayans, but that there are no references whatsoever.

I went to the phyc unit of the hospital about 2 years ago because I concluded that 2012 is real after I had, what to me were, spiritual experiences(I had heard of 2012, but I concluded it would be some sort of shift in consciousness before I even read that that on the internet, please think I am lying to you I really don't care). The doc's said that I was having a bi-polar manic episode, because basically any beliefs outside the norm are considered insanity now'a days and are not tolerated by society(even if you can operate just fine and not hurting anyone, the system WILL shut you up, I it's like the damn matrix). While I now live my life as if nothing will happen and no longer talk about it, I still secretly believe the 2012 date(and the general time frame) will be a pivotal point in in human history one way or another. The closer we get, the more it makes sense to me. Strangely, even though I developed my beliefs myself(, it seems rapper Immortal Technique among other musicians as well as others on the internet are on the exact same page as me, which helps me keep my sanity. I like to study fractals and natural cycles in nature, it's very enlightening. That's all I have to say besides the fact this story does not surprise me at all. The truth is always stranger than what you think is reality.

edit- to bad most of the Mayan codices were burned, they would have probably clarified things...

I had trouble finding an actual image of the Comalcalco stone that has the second reference of 2012 but finally was able to come across this image,let me know if anyone does happen to know if this is actually the stone of question.


Detail showing three columns of glyphs from 2nd century CE La Mojarra Stela 1. The left column gives a Long Count date of 8.5.16.9.7, or 156 CE. The two right columns are glyphs from the Epi-Olmec script.
Source

Originally posted by kdog1982
The picture of the stone artifact.




www.msnbc.msn.com...

I almost forgot I came across it.

edit on 26-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

That is actually The Tortuguero stone tablet,the first Mayan tablet associated with 2012 references etc.
I had to double check.I just came across the Comalcalco stone and posted it above.

I am working on that thread you suggested as we speak and should have it up within the hour.
thanks for the information as well,yes,It seems Barry Fell has lost a lot of credit with his peers,I need to do more digging before I make my mind up on him and his findings etc.

I will post a link to the new thread here when I am done.

I finally finished my thread on the Comalcalco stone engravings if anyone is interested,here is the link-
Comalcalco's Mysterious Mason Marks

reply to post by PerfectPerception


Very nicely done,still I wish we could see the actual bricks in question.
But,they are either hidden away for fear of disrupting archaeologists theories and egos,or they are a fabrication.
We may never know.

reply to post by kdog1982


I would love to see them myself! I dug and searched but to no avail.
I agree,one or the other.

Just because something is not posted on the internet does not mean it is being hidden.

Originally posted by aaronez
I think the entire 2012 project is more about people expectations and giving them life through social discourse rather than what may or may not actually happen. I was in the spiritualists when I was 17 (a LONG time ago) and they all said that in 1999 or 2000 the world was DEFINITELY going to "turn on it's axis" and destroy our civilization. This was around 1977. And, of course, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happened. I think we can predict with absolute, 100 percent certainty that the same thing is going to happen next year.... nothing.. just more economic and social chaos and endless war.. you know.. the usual fair these senseless human beings continue to engage in...

Lol... You said absolutely nothing happened? Do you remember 2001? Come on now... Indeed the axis of our civilizations and social structures did in fact flip....

Oh you took that literally... Then you don't understand prophecy

Originally posted by stereologist
Just because something is not posted on the internet does not mean it is being hidden.

No but it does mean it IS hidden

reply to post by HunkaHunka

No but it does mean it IS hidden

Not true at all. It simply means that no one has bothered to upload it. Think outside of box.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Where is 2001 mentioned in the original post. Where are the connections to the claims of 1999 and 2000? There are none.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

No but it does mean it IS hidden

Not true at all. It simply means that no one has bothered to upload it. Think outside of box.

That seems to be your problem...

Hidden means it's not easily available... it IS in fact hidden if it is not easily available

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Hidden means it's not easily available... it IS in fact hidden if it is not easily available

I am always interested in seeing how ebonics works in conversations. In this case you are using an incorrect definition of hidden.

A simple puzzle for you. Think of something that is not easily available and is not hidden. I give you 8 seconds to think of the first item.