PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


You just keep justifying it to yourself, then. You don't have to answer to me. But you do have to live with yourself. I hope one day you realize the errors of your own thinking in this situation. Clearly, today is not going to be that day.

But all of the justification in the world isn't going to change my mind that it is morally wrong.

reply to post by Marid Audran

Actually, you are stealing the recording of the song by your own definition above, which is a physical thing (even if digital).

Nope, I'm afraid not... Even for digital media... They keep their electrons.

The pattern that the electrons are IN, on the other hand, is not a physical thing, and copying it, does not deprive the original owner OF it, so it is not theft.

However you choose to copy it (as in copyright, as in right or permission to copy) is irrelevant because it is still a thing.

It's a pattern, not a physical thing.....

Go to the Ocean, and bring me a Wave.

I dare you.

Now, if you wanted to sing it on your own and not record and sell it, that would be fine. Which is what you are confusing with the actual end result of hundreds of hours of work.

Nope, IT's just a pattern, it's a wave.

Can you steal a wave from the ocean?

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

Can you steal a wave from the ocean?

Never knew that programmers and companies employing them are part of forces of nature as much as ocean waves. So if we compare apples (nothing against mac) and windows:
Listen ,universe is a closed system. If i take your wallet the enthalpy will not change. How it is stealing? We are one.

Chew on this:

R&L: What significance do intellectual property rights have within a free market economy and what importance did the Founding Fathers place on intellectual property rights in the American economy?

Rogan: They are the underlying basis of a free market economy. The amazing thing about the Founders, aside from their wondrous gift of the Constitution, is that while they were in Philadelphia drafting that precious document they recognized the importance of intellectual property. When I give speeches on the subject, I tell people that if they look at Article I, Section 8, they will find the anticipation of a patent and trademark system. Freedom of religion is what drove the Founders’ ancestors from England to America. Clearly that freedom would have been of primary concern for the first Pilgrims. So when drawing up the blueprint for a limited government in the relatively short and limited document that became the United States Constitution, why would the Founders—before they even threw in free speech or free religion or even free press—take this obscure language about an obscure legal area and put it in this document? The answer is they knew that this country could never grow from an agrarian colony to a technological and economic giant if there was not within the system of law the incentive for inventors to invent and creators to create. The Founders recognized the protection of intellectual property rights as a seminal prerequisite to having a prosperous economy. So intellectual property rights are a fundamental underpinning of the free market economy.

www.acton.org...

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Never knew that programmers and companies employing them are part of forces of nature as much as ocean waves. So if we compare apples (nothing against mac) and windows:
Listen ,universe is a closed system. If i take your wallet the enthalpy will not change. How it is stealing? We are one.

I stole your text.

I deprived you of yours.

You no longer have this text that I now posses.


Oh, and your question is actually pretty ignorant.

Cant win an argument, so you go straight for metaphysics, eh?

Nice bit of Fail there.

Originally posted by byteshertz
So get off your high horse and realise that everyone is a pirate because just about everything in our world created by man is intellectual property, including anything made by nature that man modifies genetically. You are saying these people have a right to own the world you live in because they have modified it's original design. The physical world is no different to the virtual world it is just atoms instead of 1's and 0's

So by that logic, why not make everything free? After all, everything you see is basically modified from nature.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


A wave, really? How do you summon up a specific wave when you want to listen to it? By magic? Clearly you are a wizard so my logic is irrelevant.

reply to post by technical difficulties

So by that logic, why not make everything free? After all, everything you see is basically modified from nature.

Because of the effort that is required to make each one.....

Copying something is not theft.

Because Theft implies that the victim lost something.

reply to post by Marid Audran

A wave, really? How do you summon up a specific wave when you want to listen to it? By magic? Clearly you are a wizard so my logic is irrelevant.

You aren't really using Logic, actually.

There is nothing there.

A Wave is not a THING... if you attempted to "Steal" the wave, you would merely end up with a lot of water.

The Wave is NOT the water, it is the Pattern, or Shape that the water takes.

If you have an Ice Sculpture, and I get a block of Ice, and carve one that looks EXACTLY like yours, do you still have yours?

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

I'm sticking up for the hard working people in the industry who are getting Screwed.

This is absolutely the most absurd thing I have ever heard. The hard working people in the Industry getting "screwed"? Really? Is this because they only have 5 limo's as opposed to 10? Maybe they just have to settle for 3 mansions instead of getting 5. They are rich beyond all defined examples of the word, rich, despite all of the people downloading videos and music and games. Look around you enlightened one, it's the people who are really working in the world, Trash men, telecommunications customer service workers, restaurants, mill workers, miners, constructionmen etc. that are the ones who are getting screwed. Lady Gaga and Britney Spears and Eminem hardly look like they are sacrificing their supper because of pirates. However, pirates and average working people ARE sacrificing, this is why they pirate. Otherwise they would have NO entertainment at all.


Back to the initial point of this post. I weep rivers of tears for these suffering artists. Not quite the holocaust but with this much destitution...is there any REAL difference? Boo Hoo.

Eminem's Mansions:











LADY GAG GAG's Mansion:






Britney Spears' Mansion:

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Marid Audran

 

If you have an Ice Sculpture, and I get a block of Ice, and carve one that looks EXACTLY like yours, do you still have yours?

Yet another completely unrelated response. Like I said before, if you like a song and play it yourself then that is fine (which is obviously far closer to what you are saying). If you are playing it on command you clearly have something stored in able to do that. Otherwise you couldn't play it on command.

Anyway, my trollpopcorn bag is empty so I am done feeding you. It is clear that you fail to understand legal and moral issues and that's not going to change and you are going to do what you are going to do. Just don't expect us creative types to thank you for stealing our stuff.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


And i am dealing with metaphysics?
Take the text,especially if it is fail. It was not copyrighted.
But the programs are. See, it is not about electrons and waves. If you look at this from moral grounds - me copying program contrary to the will of creator of this program is morally wrong.
If you look at this from financial aspect - copying the program without paying for it, contrary to the terms of use, hurts the creator and lowers the value of the product.
Legally - oh i am sure that armies of lawyers found so many reasons ,right or wrong, why it is not legal that i will no even try.
Tell me, if someone will clone someone else (or somebodies kids) without their agreement - is it not wrong? Precious electrons of the original still being in their respected places (for short while at least). And people are not produced to make a profit. Programs are. Cloning those is wrong too. Though on personal level i would be much harder on those cloning people.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

Originally posted by Phenomium
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

I'm sticking up for the hard working people in the industry who are getting Screwed.

This is absolutely the most absurd thing I have ever heard. The hard working people in the Industry getting "screwed"? Really? Is this because they only have 5 limo's as opposed to 10? Maybe they just have to settle for 3 mansions instead of getting 5. They are rich beyond all defined examples of the word, rich, despite all of the people downloading videos and music and games. Look around you enlightened one, it's the people who are really working in the world, Trash men, telecommunications customer service workers, restaurants, mill workers, miners, constructionmen etc. that are the ones who are getting screwed. Lady Gaga and Britney Spears and Eminem hardly look like they are sacrificing their supper because of pirates. However, pirates and average working people ARE sacrificing, this is why they pirate. Otherwise they would have NO entertainment at all.


Back to the initial point of this post. I weep rivers of tears for these suffering artists. Boo Hoo.

Eminem's Mansions:

LADY GAG GAG's Mansion:






Britney Spears' Mansion:

edit on 17-11-2011 by Phenomium because: (no reason given)

It sounds like you think that ONLY the "rich" artists are the ones affected by pirating.

To me this shows how little you understand about the process. Its not like these artists coughed up a CD like a cat coughs up a hairball. There are many people who work on these CDs. They are all affected.

You're going to have to do better than that.

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

It sounds like you think that ONLY the "rich" artists are the ones affected by pirating.

To me this shows how little you understand about the process. Its not like these artists coughed up a CD like a cat coughs up a hairball. There are many people who work on these CDs. They are all affected.

You're going to have to do better than that.

Sure, I'll do better.

The no-name artists out there are no-names becase no one will buy their stuff in the first place. No one pirates no-name struggling artists. This is hardly who the Media Mogul Empires are fighting for anyway. That is how little you "think" before you speak. There is no one in jail for downloading a "struggling" artists music. Anyone can put music on the net, it doesn't make it worthy to be purchased though. It is nothing more than free expression.....notice the word "FREE" back there. Let me guess you are one of these online artist wannabe's and you are angry because no one wants to buy your stuff. Not making any money with your little guitar, playing "Georgia on my mind", in a backstreet, outcasted, parlor cafe where other struggling poets and artists meet, where misery loves company...am I warm?

reply to post by Marid Audran

Yet another completely unrelated response.

Can't answer my question, can you?

Like I said before, if you like a song and play it yourself then that is fine (which is obviously far closer to what you are saying). If you are playing it on command you clearly have something stored in able to do that. Otherwise you couldn't play it on command.

Your point is?

Anyway, my trollpopcorn bag is empty so I am done feeding you.

You are going to have a hard time trolling for the RIAA without it.

It is clear that you fail to understand legal and moral issues

Oh, I do quite clearly, actually, You don't.

nd that's not going to change and you are going to do what you are going to do. Just don't expect us creative types to thank you for stealing our stuff.

Again, theft implies a loss of property.

Copying a song is not taking your property.

And claiming potential lost revenue is not a valid Cause of Action.


If someone steals money from you, That's Theft.

If you DON'T sell something... that is not theft.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

And i am dealing with metaphysics?

You said that stealing my wallet was fine because we are all one.

That's pretty metaphysical, actually.

Take the text,especially if it is fail. It was not copyrighted.

k

But the programs are.

And so is the music...

See, it is not about electrons and waves.

It's about a pattern.

If you look at this from moral grounds - me copying program contrary to the will of creator of this program is morally wrong.

How?

If you look at this from financial aspect - copying the program without paying for it, contrary to the terms of use, hurts the creator and lowers the value of the product.

How?

Legally - oh i am sure that armies of lawyers found so many reasons ,right or wrong, why it is not legal that i will no even try.

That's not an argument.

Tell me, if someone will clone someone else (or somebodies kids) without their agreement - is it not wrong?

What?

Precious electrons of the original still being in their respected places (for short while at least).

Do you not know how cloning works?

And people are not produced to make a profit. Programs are. Cloning those is wrong too. Though on personal level i would be much harder on those cloning people.

Copyright only APPLIES to profit.

Period.

If someone tries to SELL your copyrighted work, then you have a CLAIM against that person, because they made PROFIT on something that you were granted exclusive rights to profit off of.

Copyright does not apply to mere copying.