Breaking News Portland Oregon Occupy Wall Street group being implicated in Molotov cocktail attack o

reply to post by Honor93

i have a few questions .... IF these cocktails were thrown Down a stairwell ... how did the perpetrator(s) get out ??
was there a helicopter on the roof ? did they climb a few more floors then take the elevator? did they repel off the roof ? this just makes no logical sense whatsoever.

It was in response to that, a nice little group of questions based off a snippet of breaking news when full articles are out saying nothing about the molotov being dropped down the stairs.

Originally posted by aivlas
reply to post by Honor93

 

i have a few questions .... IF these cocktails were thrown Down a stairwell ... how did the perpetrator(s) get out ??
was there a helicopter on the roof ? did they climb a few more floors then take the elevator? did they repel off the roof ? this just makes no logical sense whatsoever.

It was in response to that, a nice little group of questions based off a snippet of breaking news when full articles are out saying nothing about the molotov being dropped down the stairs.

edit on 9-11-2011 by aivlas because: (no reason given)

soooo, this first sentence from YOUR link, means something other than what it says ???

Police said a Molotov cocktail was set off in an exterior stairwell at the World Trade Center in downtown Portland tonight, and they believe protesters at Occupy Portland might be responsible.

your link

no, it doesn't say where in the stair well, heck it doesn't even indicate a point of origin ... so, how are my questions irrelevant ??

perhaps you missed the point that i am questioning such a 'vague' tale.
hmmmm, then again maybe you are misinterpreting the english in the sentence ... "Molotov cocktail was set off in an exterior stairwell" ??

a. cocktails are not "set off"
b. doesn't mention the cocktail being tossed through any point of entry
c. no indication of the perpetrator(s) escape when they set off the supposed cocktail

and let's not forget, police seldom take 2wks to investigate reports of weapons manufacturing / storing ... especially when the report comes from an "inside source" - ie ... the OWS themselves.

and, last but not least, since the Patriot Act, when have the authorities offered reward $$$ for information regarding terrorist type activities ?? ... thought they were promoting "if you see something, say something" ???
i don't recall any mention of cash rewards.

Well with trust gone out the window, I don't know anymore if these incidents are from genuine protestors or infiltrated undercovers provoking violence. I can see it happening either way, but who knows for sure these days?



Again, I am not denying that actual protestors could/would not have done this, but there is more to the story sometimes, and we know the advantage of a violent outbreak, protest gets shut down, pretty effective.

Ok so in response to the member asking questions about the stairwell etc.

1. Yes you're right you don't "set off" a molotov cocktail you just toss them they break and the flammable contents spill out and burn.

2. The stairwell the molotov was tossed into is an EXTERIOR stairwell at ground level accessible from the trade center plaza. So no need for a helicopter or even to get into the building at all.

Hope this clears things up.

Originally posted by roguetechie
Ok so in response to the member asking questions about the stairwell etc.

1. Yes you're right you don't "set off" a molotov cocktail you just toss them they break and the flammable contents spill out and burn.

2. The stairwell the molotov was tossed into is an EXTERIOR stairwell at ground level accessible from the trade center plaza. So no need for a helicopter or even to get into the building at all.

Hope this clears things up.

yes, #2 sheds some light on the subject but clears up nothing.
Not all exterior stairwells are accessible from street level after business hours
(at least in my state, anyway)
cocktails are still not "set-off" as most articles indicate.

please note, i am not siding with either, however, i am stating the story is far too vague to make any assumptions about either side although, regarding OWS, there is more evidence of police / provocateur activities than not.
and, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is merely the "latest" in a rash of bad acts, committed by both sides.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by roguetechie

 

I hope it wasn't OWS that did this.
I hope it was some lone nut-weasel.

Because if it wasn't a lone nut-job, if it was OWS, then I might have been proven right.

For all you fans of OWS, I hope I'm wrong.

You must not have got the memo beezzer.

No one speaks for anyone else in OWS. It can't agree on aims or goals or gripes. Anyone is welcomed in, regardless of ideology or gripes or anything else, because they are all "the 99%". It's a movement that embraces all comers to the cause.

Anyone and everyone is OWS - well, unless someone else in OWS says they're not. Then suddenly someone else in OWS is allowed to speak for everyone in OWS.

It's the most amorphous mass of mess I've ever encountered. No clear goal(s), no clear mission statement(s), not even a consensus as to who is and is not a part of the "movement". No one can speak for anyone in it unless this one does something that one doesn't like, then that one is suddenly a movement wide spokesman... until that one does something this one doesn't like, then this one gets to be speaking for everyone in the movement...

It's a huge roiling mass of lone nut jobs - but they're all in "solidarity"... well, until they're not...

And then both this one and that one can't seem to figure out why this "movement" is not being taken seriously...

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Lol..
Keep trying man.
When you can come up with something solid that isn't an entirely questionable, partially seen, incident that has be expounded upon by people such as yourself grasping for propaganda straws you let me know.

I didn't have to say a word three people came to set the record straight before I had a chance. This us just a woman falling, you can't pin it on anything but circumstance - fact.

Note: I live in portland currently, and this stairwell is accessible from common areas that people have access to.

I still don't know what to think about this incident or OWS in general. This thread hasn't really helped either. After reading what both sides have to say I feel even less certain of myself when trying to suss out whether OWS is a good or bad thing.

So, is there a suspect? Any arrests made? Is this thing on?
*tap tap*

reply to post by roguetechie


Only way to figure it out is to go down and talk to different people at the protests yourself.
If you are trying to figure out how you feel about a movement based on what you read on a website you will never get it right.

Originally posted by roguetechie
Note: I live in portland currently, and this stairwell is accessible from common areas that people have access to.

I still don't know what to think about this incident or OWS in general. This thread hasn't really helped either. After reading what both sides have to say I feel even less certain of myself when trying to suss out whether OWS is a good or bad thing.

thanks for some extra clarification about the stairwell in question.
as for your personal dilemma, don't fret, you are not alone ... i would randomly guess some 88% or so are in a similar predicament.

the good news for many side-liners (especially those who have previously participated in such activities), is that we are equally dismayed by both sides of this OWS mess and find it more than difficult to support either side.

News breaking right now is gunfire, one victim in Vermont's Occupy. First word is that it was self inflicted.
The Occupy movement intrigues me, to watch how they are setting up a mini society, but now I'm starting to see the strain of living in that environment long term. Tempers are getting shorter, the starter society is becoming overburdened.
I thought it was a good social experiment but too many people are getting hurt.

So, is there a suspect? Any arrests made? Is this thing on? *tap tap*

Yea, this guy.



$1 million bail for Portland bomb suspect

PORTLAND -- Bail for a man inside the Occupy Portland camp Wednesday on accusations related to a Tuesday Molotov cocktail fire was raised to $1 million by a judge Thursday. David Hodson, 29, was arraigned on first-degree arson, manufacturing a destructive device, possession of an explosive device and second-degree criminal mischief charges. The accusations also include vandalism to the Smart Park garage at 123 SW Jefferson, according to Portland Fire Bureau spokesman Paul Corah. Hodson was also arrested Sunday on a reckless burning charge for trash fires that were started near the Occupy Portland encampments at Lownsdale and Chapman Square parks, according to Fire Bureau, Corah said.

...and of course the denial that he had anything to do with the encampment. What else would you expect?

”(Witnesses) saw them go into the camp. That does not necessarily mean that they are part of the camp," protester Gavin Carrots said. "Furthermore, if this is the kind of action that they’re carrying out then they are not part of this protest.” In an interview Wednesday morning on OPB, Mayor Sam Adams said that a suspect in the World Trade Center bombing was seen returning to the camp.

Now, even though protester X admits that witnesses saw him return, the "he said, she said" will try to distance the guy from the movement. Take from that what you will, but MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION (and note those words carefully) is that he was.

Again, it doesn't mean that everyone there was dancing naked around bails of hemp soaked in gasoline, lighting executives babies on fire, and while I don't support this leftist hi-jacked outcry, I would fight to the death to ensure peaceful voices have a podium to have their grievances heard.

Nobody's happy with bankers right now, except maybe the corrupt politicians that got paid off by the lobbyists, who's corporations wrote their own regulations in order to squash the little guy, but it's going to take a lot more than some half scattered list of entitlement demands to get me on board.

Had they gone after the right people in the first place, the view from my perspective may have been slightly different.

Flame on (pun intended) supporters!

P.S. You can save the silly insults and personal attacks you're so versed in though, as we've all heard them before, and they just make you look childish and ignorant.

Convince me in a grown-up manner, and we can still talk.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by roguetechie

 

Molotov cocktail dropped down a stairwell? This is simply a lone person being stupid. I am sure the media will implicate the entire OWS movement, but rationale minds should know anytime you get a group of angry people, one is bound to do something dumb.

Ummm there were zero molotov cocktails in the Tea Party movement. Compare and contrast.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by roguetechie

 

I hope it wasn't OWS that did this.
I hope it was some lone nut-weasel.

Because if it wasn't a lone nut-job, if it was OWS, then I might have been proven right.

For all you fans of OWS, I hope I'm wrong.

You must not have got the memo beezzer.

No one speaks for anyone else in OWS. It can't agree on aims or goals or gripes. Anyone is welcomed in, regardless of ideology or gripes or anything else, because they are all "the 99%". It's a movement that embraces all comers to the cause.

Anyone and everyone is OWS - well, unless someone else in OWS says they're not. Then suddenly someone else in OWS is allowed to speak for everyone in OWS.

It's the most amorphous mass of mess I've ever encountered. No clear goal(s), no clear mission statement(s), not even a consensus as to who is and is not a part of the "movement". No one can speak for anyone in it unless this one does something that one doesn't like, then that one is suddenly a movement wide spokesman... until that one does something this one doesn't like, then this one gets to be speaking for everyone in the movement...

It's a huge roiling mass of lone nut jobs - but they're all in "solidarity"... well, until they're not...

And then both this one and that one can't seem to figure out why this "movement" is not being taken seriously...

edit on 2011/11/10 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

lol sounds like one of those MC Escher pics.