Standard Model holds true. (There is just 4 dimensions after all)

Hi all, don't know how many of you would find this interesting, but some of the latest experiments at CERN shows that the Standard model still holds true. No mini-black holes, and no higher dimesions. ...Damn, and I was hoping for some outcome showing a universe with a lot more dimensions

Wiki intro. on the standard model :

The Standard Model of particle physics is a theory concerning the electromagnetic, weak, and strong nuclear interactions, which mediate the dynamics of the known subatomic particles. Developed throughout the mid to late 20th century, the current formulation was finalized in the mid 1970s upon experimental confirmation of the existence of quarks. Since then, discoveries of the bottom quark (1977), the top quark (1995) and the tau neutrino (2000) have given credence to the Standard Model. Because of its success in explaining a wide variety of experimental results, the Standard Model is sometimes regarded as a theory of almost everything.

en.wikipedia.org...

The CERN group looked for it based on Hawkings-evaporation from miniature-black holes that should have formed during the LHC-collisions, if the Standard model didn't hold true. :

In some models of extra dimensions, the gravitational
eld can propagate into (n + 4)-dimensions, where n is the number of extra dimensions,
while the Standard Model particles are restricted to four-dimensional
space-time. Therefore, the gravitational field as measured in four dimensions is
reduced in strength from the fundamental gravitational field. As a result, the
Planck scale in (n+4)-dimensions MD would be much smaller than the Planck
scale in four dimensions MPl, and possibly comparable to the electroweak scale.
Examples of such models of extra dimensions are the ADD model, which is a
model of large
at extra dimensions [1, 2, 3], and the Randall-Sundrum model [4]
with small warped extra dimensions.
If extra dimensions exist and MD is in the TeV range, microscopic black
holes with masses at the TeV scale could be produced at the Large Hadron
Collider [5, 6, 7, 8]. Black holes are expected to be produced when half the
classical impact parameter of two colliding partons is smaller than the higherdimensional
horizon radius corresponding to a black hole with mass equal to
the invariant mass of the colliding parton system.

Their results :

In summary, a search for extra dimensions in the same-sign dimuon nal state has been performed using 1.3 fb􀀀1 of data recorded with the ATLAS detector in 7 TeV proton-proton collisions at the LHC. No excess of events over the Standard Model prediction is observed and exclusion contours are obtained in the plane of the reduced Planck scale MD and the threshold MTH for black hole production.

here is a the link to the whole article, if you feel very brave, and I just wish that some of the PPL raving over thost unsubstatiated cold-fusion machine making the headlines, should read this and see what a properly-written science article looks like, lol....

Warning. It is a link to a PDF article
arxiv.org...
sorry, about the bad formatting in some of the quotes, but it seems as though ATS and my copying from PDF articles doesn't see eye-to eye if I paste.

Cool, that's actually what I argued around here a few months ago.

I took the position that there are only 4 dimensions as well, and that the rest was just pure fantasy.

I didn't waste billions of $$$ to determine that however, I was just applying basic common sense. So it only cost me zero cents to arrive at that conclusion.

There are like 100 reasons why the ultra-dimensional theories don't make sense.

reply to post by muzzleflash


lol, but you can't disagree that it was fun speculating on all those higher dimensions ... I remember when I was at university, that we spent many nights speculating on it (and of course, the more beers we had, the wilder the speculations) , lol .....

Since then, discoveries of the bottom quark (1977), the top quark (1995)

The TV Sitcom "Quark" starred Tim Tomerson. I think the show only lasted a half a season.(1978?)

That's all I know about quarks. Is this a contributing addition to the thread?

Nothing is certain. They conducted a test with technology which spans only several decades. We've hardly even settled here yet.

So does this mean that inter-dimensional beings are non-existent? That sure is going to upset some people. Although if I were being terrorized by such a thing, I wouldn't care which dimension it came from.

So this is definitive then? What does this do to something like string theory? I think I will go and educate myself now. Thanks for the article.

reply to post by niceguybob


You guys know, that is what makes life so interesting. I've studied many fields, and then, inevitably I would lose interest in that field, and find a new field to study, and when I revisit that field a couple of years later, I am always surprised by the amount that knowledge has progressed. Sometimes dreams or wild fantasies gets squashed, but then there are so many more new exciting things that we can speculate on

So in layman terms there are no hidden dimensions like an alternate universe and whatnot?? Just would like to know a little more by what is ment with 4 dimensions and what are the dimensions, are we talking about the likes of a 3d world compared to a 2d world?

Originally posted by Vaxar
So in layman terms there are no hidden dimensions like an alternate universe and whatnot?? Just would like to know a little more by what is ment with 4 dimensions and what are the dimensions, are we talking about the likes of a 3d world compared to a 2d world?

Common....There has to be more then 4 dimensions no? We only know how to measure 4 correct?

Isn't that what science is? Proving out for FACT with a design of experiment the science can validate the hypothesis?

How can we get to 5 without going to 4 first? Or 8? Dunno..

I don't believe there are only 4 dimensions. Can't prove it though.

we just have to remember that this isn't the last word on the Standard Model. That depends on the Higgs boson being found (Which the LCH hasn't found yet), and there are a couple of other problems with it.....

Problems with Standard Model
www.pha.jhu.edu...

BUNK! don't tell me the standard model is fixed and then link to wikipedia =/

scientists are even using the extra dimentions as an hypothesis for the recent neutrino problem so don't rule it out yet.

Originally posted by whatsinaname
BUNK! don't tell me the standard model is fixed and then link to wikipedia =/

scientists are even using the extra dimentions as an hypothesis for the recent neutrino problem so don't rule it out yet.

I linked to the wikipedia article to give an introduction to what the standard model is all about. If you actually read the whole post, you would have seen, I linked to this article, that is what this whole thread is about.

arxiv.org...

Something I always find annoying about some cosmologists is that they will take a THEORY and build on that with other theories and before long you have a Universe according to them to be so mind numbingly complex and nonsensical that it hurts the brain.
These guys need Occam's Razor, they need to shave.

Kind of a relief to hear other scientists are wielding the razor.

How long 'till the Big Bang theory dies? I can't believe the WHOLE ENTIRE UNIVERSE started from ONE (1) point in space.
My theory is that there have been many big bang type events, we are only one of them.

Originally posted by Hellhound604
we just have to remember that this isn't the last word on the Standard Model. That depends on the Higgs boson being found (Which the LCH hasn't found yet), and there are a couple of other problems with it.....

Yes the search for the Higgs isn't going that well and if they find it below 130 GeV that may pose some problems for the standard model. It doesn't mean we need to throw it out, but it might need some revision.

I always thought the claim of extra dimensions above 4 to be interesting but I've been waiting to see some experimental proof of them and it hasn't been forthcoming.

I'd have to drink beer during the day as well as at night to speculate without evidence for as long as the 11 dimension folks have (what's it been, 4 decades?), and I'm not really much of a beer drinker so that wouldn't work for me

The standard model will change because there are more than four dimensions and that fact is a fact. And it's not just wishful thinking either, i know my realities and they are not governed by what the scientists say or dont say because they maybe clever but they are not wise. Just wait and see, alot of people are going to look very foolish.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I mean that literally), but... aren't there multiple possibilities here?

1) String theory is incorrect; there are only four dimensions, thus explaining the failure of the experiment

2) String theory is correct; there are multiple dimensions; the failure of the experiment is a reflection on the innacuracy of current black hole theory


?

Thoughts?

Originally posted by Tindalos2013
The standard model will change because there are more than four dimensions and that fact is a fact. And it's not just wishful thinking either, i know my realities and they are not governed by what the scientists say or dont say because they maybe clever but they are not wise. Just wait and see, alot of people are going to look very foolish.

Our Universe doesn't require any more than 4 dimensions plus source material. The odd thing at CERN... They're looking for mass. You don't find mini-black holes with this approach. Black holes don't end up with mass.... Only directional spin.

Thats all well and good but then how do you explain the relative weakness of gravity against the other forces?

reply to post by Awen24


Well, seeing that this paper has been released for peer-review, I guess there will be a LOT of scientific debate going on, but that is the beauty of Peer-review isn't it?