Alien abductions may be vivid dreams: study says

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
All your gonna get to refute the doctor's analysis is stories and mores stories...everything but evidence.

There is no such thing as alien abductions and has never been...it is this centuries version of witches and goblins taking people in the night.

The believers always fail to realize one thing...not one piece of evidence exists to back their claims up. Implants have never been studied by any reputable institutions. They are always in areas one would find if they had taken a fall...such as knee, forearm...etc...most likely glass, wood fragments or other mundane objects.
Dr. Leir claims they have been examined..but has never provided the place and documents to back that claim up.

Budd Hopkins may have been a fraud...because he either intentionally or unintentional placed memories into peoples minds to get an alien abduction story.

You want to talk about a Harvard professor who has done extensive research on this phenomenon how about Richard McNally or Susan Clancy..but you won't take these Harvard educated people seriously because they go against your belief system.

Also why does the abduction phenomenon contain religious aspects if the abductee is religious and not if the person is not religious?

Why does the abduction phenomenon differ from country to country?

Why are Americans or people influenced by America abducted by greys?

Why are Europeans abducted by more humanoid beings?

Why are other countries such South American ones abducted by more colorful aliens?...maybe because their culture is more rich and vibrant so their hallucinations will contain a much more unique alien.

Too much holes in the abduction phenomenon and not enough excuses for the believers to fill them.

So yes Alien Abductions are most likely a figment of imagination, delusions due to mental illness, completely made up for attention, a way for people to deal with past sexual abuse or very vivid dreams.

You have made many very good points. Especially the proportion of reported alien abductions in the U.S. as apposed to anywhere else in the world. As far as testing supposed implants....I know of only two that on the surface of reported information....seemed as if they were the real thing....but as I have posted here before...if they were the real thing....the Agency would make sure the sample was very quickly confiscated and every bit of dirt that ever existed on the Doctor performing the removal or the scientists or researchers....looking at it under several types of instruments....would also soon be either persuaded to admit it was a fake or other various presures would be brought to bear.

The fact that there really is only a very small number of actual abductees and that it seems like every other minute...someone new gets on the web proffesing that they were taken aboard an E.T. craft....allows such an aura of UNBELIEVABILITY to this very much so....REALITY....that the Agency has little work cut out for them to try to keep it under wraps.

Never the less....abduction is a REALITY....a very small number of people can actually claim this to be so....but it is never the less. Split Infinity

reply to post by Pimander


Yes there are people who claim to be abducted wide awake, there are group abductions, implants, people see not only light UFOs, but some claim actual physical craft, etc, etc...

I'm not saying there's not a physical side of the phenomenon, but I am saying, although even a rough estimate is hard to give, MOST of alien encounters happen when people are either falling asleep or already asleep - in the astral.

However, yes, there are quite physical encounters. What remains to be understood is the relationship between the physical and astral planes. That's my understanding as of this moment

reply to post by Whateva69


I remember reading that book, I was astunned, an abduction right THERE in NYC, and high level witnesses...
Yeah, abductions are all dreams

Its funny that iv just seen this.

The othernight I was tossing and turning in bed and couldn't get to sleep, then i heard my dog crying to go out for a pee. So i went down stirs all tired and blurry eye'd and when i opened my back door a grey alien came in and was stood right infronmt of me(only it wasnt grey it was pnik fleshy colour) So i tried shouting of my GF and as she woke me up from my dream because of the noises i was making, I realised i did fall to sleep when i thought i was tossing and turning. And it was all a dream. Just showed how real some dreams can be imo.

Some may well be, but many are definately not.

Many abuctees report having seen military type uniforms on the "ship". I think you all heard of MK ULTRA. Did the people involved with MK ULTRA resport to abductions or not?

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
The believers always fail to realize one thing...not one piece of evidence exists to back their claims up.

You know that MILABS were a reality don't you? Evidence exists if that is the case and people like you are simply denying evidence selectively because it conflicts with your own belief system. If MILABS evidence exists and you are not aware of it perhaps there is more you are not aware of.... Cognitive dissonance anyone?

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Budd Hopkins may have been a fraud...because he either intentionally or unintentional placed memories into peoples minds to get an alien abduction story.

Budd's work wasn't all hypnosis based at all. Much of his research was based on other material. He also did not do all the regression himself.

The fact that you used the words, "may have been a fraud," is interesting. Could it be that this is because you "may" be wrong and are not as familiar with the evidence as you pretend?

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
You want to talk about a Harvard professor who has done extensive research on this phenomenon how about Richard McNally or Susan Clancy..but you won't take these Harvard educated people seriously because they go against your belief system.

By the same token you don't accept John Mack or Dr Leir for precisely the same reason. You can't have it both ways unless you like double standards.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Also why does the abduction phenomenon contain religious aspects if the abductee is religious and not if the person is not religious?

For the same reason that a modern Westerner thinks weather is predictable and a Shaman thinks it is caused by spirits and can be influenced by ritual. Humans interpret and deal with the world in terms of their belief system. It does not mean that either abductions or weather are not real.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
So yes Alien Abductions are most likely a figment of imagination, delusions due to mental illness, completely made up for attention, a way for people to deal with past sexual abuse or very vivid dreams.

You can only conclude this if you ignore lots of the evidence. You could address that evidence and try to refute it but you haven't because you clearly don't want to study the subject or can't refute said evidence. For this reason your assertion is just that at this point.

Lots of the questions about abductions need to be viewed in a slightly different way. Yes many stories could be attention seeking or constructs to deal with trauma such as abuse. However, anyone familiar with the work of Carl Jung, Rupert Sheldrake, certain parapsychologists and others will know there are ways of understanding why accounts can vary depending on cultural setting (whether historically, geographically or spiritually). To view the topic in the light of the sophisticated ideas of these types of researchers are far more enlightened than the spectacularly naive "it's all just dreams" - which is a pathetic excuse for a theory.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Haven't read the thread but had to comment....

Tell my family we were all having a shared dream when my daughter saw me chase one of these down the hall...lol

Rich

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Shame it doesn't explain the strange black objects that are occasionally found embedded in said abductees tissue/skin. The objects found have been known to be made of a strong glass type material - covered in a thick membrane - I'm leaving work now so i dont have time to find the example i wanted but i will be back to edit this!

4D

I originally posted my reply to this article on MSNBC, but here goes -

What would be really interesting, is if the researchers actually took on the out-of-body experience. This is a proven phenomena that actually happens quite frequently, specifically in hospitals and ERs.

One doctor (his name slips me right now) actually wore a cartoon character on the top of his scrub cap, and when someone said they experienced an OBE, he would ask them about it, many times they could identify it immediately. He is publishing a book on this topic soon.

SO. Assuming if OBEs are real......what's to preclude the fact that they ARE actually seeing ETs? One of the most common theories as to how ET can transverse such immense distances across space, is that the have the capability to complete inter-dimensional travel...i.e., they can jump from our "reality", if you will.

Flawed study with a very flawed conclusion. Anyone with the least bit of scientific background would rip this apart in a peer reviewed journal.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Yes, that is exactly what the powers that be would like you to think, isn't it now? Make everyone think they were dreaming, then when the invasion come, no one will be prepared! I swear, our leaders are retarded! What are they thinking?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

Yes, that is exactly what the powers that be would like you to think, isn't it now? Make everyone think they were dreaming, then when the invasion come, no one will be prepared! I swear, our leaders are retarded! What are they thinking?

How come many of these abduction experiences happen while people are in bed?

Its obvious that many negs look like ET's.

Right. Dreams.

I suppose we should just ignore the fact that most abductions don't even occur when the victim is in bed.

OR the fact that physical evidence is left behind. Check out these alleged implants that were removed from actual abductees. What kind of dream does that?
www.youtube.com...
Some abduction cases have multiple witneses.

Check out the Manhattan Abduction .

I like what wbf-2485841 commented at the bottom of the article.

If the experimenters told them to look for dolphins.. would that disprove the existance of dolphins?

LOL. I believe both things are happening, real alien abductions and dreams, but to suggest that just because some are dreams, all are dreams even when people are awake and driving their car or something is complete BS.

I'd also like to note that near the end of the article they talk about someone who says they saw creatures like those from 'The Thing'. This is not like good abduction reports. Many people may have noticed that 95 percent of the time the abductees describe the same kind of alien. Usually the greys. You know, big head big eyes small nose and mouth. Heck, even people in Zimbabwe describe the same aliens we see in America.

I'm seeing a lot of arguing over something stupid - the never-stated idea that every "abduction" story is the same.

I do think this is an intriguing idea, especially for those visitations where people claimed they were awakened, saw/experienced something, and then just went back to sleep. You can argue they were drugged, or accept a simpler answer - vivid dreaming.

I've had some pretty terrifying and very real dreams, the kind that it takes you till lunch to shake off. I have no doubt that some reported alien encounters are simply bad dreams.

S&F

Don't get me wrong, Mack etc... sure was a good man.

I saw a movie recently about Alien Abductions with Mack in it (forgot the name tho, was it "Touched" ???), anyway it featured some Abductees and how Mack did the regressions....and sometimes Mack was *clearly* leading the hypnotized people and i did not like this.

The Abductee was just lying there and basically confirming whatever Mack "told him" about Aliens and UFOs..confirming with "yes" or "no"......

EXAMPLE (not actual): Abductee mentioned some vague shapes he sees, and Mack then "So..those shapes you are talking about...they are the Grays from the ship, right?" Abductee then: "Yes"

Originally posted by Pimander
Lots of the questions about abductions need to be viewed in a slightly different way. Yes many stories could be attention seeking or constructs to deal with trauma such as abuse. However, anyone familiar with the work of Carl Jung, Rupert Sheldrake, certain parapsychologists and others will know there are ways of understanding why accounts can vary depending on cultural setting (whether historically, geographically or spiritually). To view the topic in the light of the sophisticated ideas of these types of researchers are far more enlightened than the spectacularly naive "it's all just dreams" - which is a pathetic excuse for a theory.

this might interest you...

www.tripzine.com...

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

what about travis walton. he wasn't asleep and his abduction was witnessed by 5 co-workers that were logging with him in the forest.

they each passed a polygraph test that corroborated their story's. they were about to be charged with murder, yet they still stuck by what they saw.

either they are the best liars, trained by the c.i.a to fool a polygraph test, or they're telling the truth.

edit on 26-10-2011 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Or they think they're telling the truth. There's a reason polygraph tests aren't admissable evidence in court.

Originally posted by flexy123
The Abduction phenomenon is WAY too complex to simply do it off as "oh, its only an OBE in your mind"...but its ALSO way too complex and mysterious to say it's an actual, physical event happening "in our reality".

what about the tectonic strain theory?

Has anyone read 'Dark White' by Jim Schnabel, a detailed study of the entire abduction phenomenon. Not sure if it's still in print, but worth hunting for:

Dark White